Does Rugby have a Superstar?
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@Nepia said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@MajorRage said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
Taniela Tupou has the potential.
Are you serious?
Yes. As M4L said at the start, it's a philosophical discussion. It doesn't mean I think he will, it just means I think he has the potential.
What does it take to be a superstar? The main thing I think you need these days is a superb highlight reel. Wouldn't be that hard to build one around TT - he's had plenty of wrecking ball runs in his career. Then I think you need for commentator's / pundits to take notice. There is no doubt that he has that, up here at least. Paul Williams, Flatman have all mentioned his name plenty of times to their audiences.
And if you think he didn't have early career hype, then you weren't paying attention.
It hasn't really worked out (so far) and I think you need a bigger immediate impact to make a true go of it. Having said though, if he does a few blockbuster runs in the WC (against decent opposition), wins a few scrums & makes a couple of big tackles then he'll be back in the commentators writings / speakings again.
Perhaps the best ways of it putting it is this. If Ethan de Groot plays a blinder, and TT plays a blinder (at the same level as EdG), I think you'll find global commentators waxing lyrical about TT, with little said about EdG.
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@Catogrande said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
I can’t believe there’s any argument. We’ve had a few rugby only superstars, usually along nationalistic lines but there has only been one that truly transcends those nationalistic lines and transcends the sport itself and that is Jonah Lomu.
No one else comes close.
Nepia (the real one, not me) would have been close in the 20s, although that was limited to rugby playing countries, but he was a huge star in that time and crossed over from rugby (and league) in the NH.
@Nepia said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@Catogrande said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
I can’t believe there’s any argument. We’ve had a few rugby only superstars, usually along nationalistic lines but there has only been one that truly transcends those nationalistic lines and transcends the sport itself and that is Jonah Lomu.
No one else comes close.
Nepia (the real one, not me) would have been close in the 20s, although that was limited to rugby playing countries, but he was a huge star in that time and crossed over from rugby (and league) in the NH.
Absolutely crucial clarification there. If not done, the whole TSF would have been unsure!
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No one has come close to the impact that Jonah made on the game IMO. Even in an era that had no social media etc his highlight reels went viral, to the point where teams like the Dallas Cowboys were firing contract offers through.
Dan Carter is probably the next biggest star but his form was a bit up and down in his last years before he finished with a bang.
If Anton Du Pont wins the WC this year he’s probably the next global rugby star if he isn’t already.
@Canes4life said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
No one has come close to the impact that Jonah made on the game IMO. Even in an era that had no social media etc his highlight reels went viral, to the point where teams like the Dallas Cowboys were firing contract offers through.
Dan Carter is probably the next biggest star but his form was a bit up and down in his last years before he finished with a bang.
If Anton Du Pont wins the WC this year he’s probably the next global rugby star if he isn’t already.
The timing of Lomu’s prominence whilst professionalism was in its infancy had the rugby world screaming for a superstar. They needed someone to be the face of where rugby was heading. To showcase that it was no longer an amateur sport that was played by [insert - NZ farmers, Aussie private school kids, white Sth Africans, elite Poms etc].
So when this 6’5 powerful, fast running winger emerged, and he could play a bit - they had all the ingredients for their superstar. Lomu was also a bit of an enigma. Yes the sponsors came knocking, but during his playing days he didn’t give a lot of post game interviews (usually left to the coach or captain). We didn’t get a lot of insight so that added to the mystique (which is often the case with superstars).
It was after his playing days that we got at times some very raw insight into the man.
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Rugby in my view is the ultimate team game so it’s not easy to have an individual really stand out.
Whilst there’s a beauty when we as diehard fans recognise the game played in its simplicity, but that doesn’t take away from all the stuff that goes on to allow a great play to occur. The ruck that was cleaned out, the perfect dummy line run by a team mate to create space, the set piece that gave the attacking platform - add all those things up
The other point is, and I think @mariner4life touched on this in his OP, what do we value when it comes to the game? Is it winning? Is it winning in a certain way? Is it how many tries we score and how we do it? Is the focus heavily on forward play and then the rest takes care of itself?
Whatever that might be may determine the value we place on a certain player and how high we elevate them in our consciousness.
I thought DC and Wilkinson were superstar candidates - but both of them aren’t flashy, they’re not in your face kind of guys and they knew their capacity to use their exceptional skills is contingent on others. But both had charisma, were out of central casting, likeable guy next door personalities and from the sport perspective played in a position where the ball is in their hands a lot.
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As a lot of people have already said, rugby's a very hard sport to become a superstar in, simply because your performance is generally so dependent on how well your teammates play. There are certainly a couple of guys who buck that trend (Ardie Savea is one current example) but it's still more difficult to stake a claim as a superstar in rugby than in many other sports.
I also think it's debatable whether anyone can truly be a superstar unless they're known outside of core rugby nations. Yes, Tindall married into the royal family and Dan Carter was loved by all and sundry, but how much appeal did these guys have outside New Zealand, England etc?
I think the only way a rugby player is going to be able to rise to the heights of a superstar now is by being instantly recognisable - people have to take note of them simply by seeing them. Carter is just a fairly normal looking bloke. If you didn't already know who he was, no one in the streets is going to give him a second glance.
Perhaps someone like Posolo Tuilagi could be the next superstar? He's a talented player, a big unit, and comes from a well-known rugby family so there's a pretty interesting story there to build around.
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@SBW1 said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
If Shaun Stevenson had gone, there may have been potential, still not too late.
Is that you Mrs Stevenson?
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Agree with MR, Tupou is a classic case. A prop with ball skills and running ability. All the tools to be must-watch
Gives up penalties and isn't fit enough so rugby people have written him off as a bit-part player
Perhaps the rules are to blame.
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The other thing to consider is
It's almost impossible to keep the ball away from Messi in a soccer game, or a star NBA player
In rugby teams can plan to keep the ball away from star players.
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Both Jordan and Dupont have an excellent opportunity to be the Men of the Tournament
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Agree with MR, Tupou is a classic case. A prop with ball skills and running ability. All the tools to be must-watch
Gives up penalties and isn't fit enough so rugby people have written him off as a bit-part player
Perhaps the rules are to blame.
@mariner4life said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
Perhaps the rules are to blame.
Definitely are a barrier. Superstars tend to transcend beyond just the fans of the individual sport, where the average Joe can see something and go, “wow”.
When they don’t know what is happening so much, that isn’t always an easy follow (like a Messi or Ronaldo goal, an MJ or Lebron drive and dunk, a Buddy Franklin run down the wing and 50m goal)
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As a lot of people have already said, rugby's a very hard sport to become a superstar in, simply because your performance is generally so dependent on how well your teammates play. There are certainly a couple of guys who buck that trend (Ardie Savea is one current example) but it's still more difficult to stake a claim as a superstar in rugby than in many other sports.
I also think it's debatable whether anyone can truly be a superstar unless they're known outside of core rugby nations. Yes, Tindall married into the royal family and Dan Carter was loved by all and sundry, but how much appeal did these guys have outside New Zealand, England etc?
I think the only way a rugby player is going to be able to rise to the heights of a superstar now is by being instantly recognisable - people have to take note of them simply by seeing them. Carter is just a fairly normal looking bloke. If you didn't already know who he was, no one in the streets is going to give him a second glance.
Perhaps someone like Posolo Tuilagi could be the next superstar? He's a talented player, a big unit, and comes from a well-known rugby family so there's a pretty interesting story there to build around.
@Mr-Fish said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
As a lot of people have already said, rugby's a very hard sport to become a superstar in, simply because your performance is generally so dependent on how well your teammates play. There are certainly a couple of guys who buck that trend (Ardie Savea is one current example) but it's still more difficult to stake a claim as a superstar in rugby than in many other sports.
I also think it's debatable whether anyone can truly be a superstar unless they're known outside of core rugby nations. Yes, Tindall married into the royal family and Dan Carter was loved by all and sundry, but how much appeal did these guys have outside New Zealand, England etc?
I think the only way a rugby player is going to be able to rise to the heights of a superstar now is by being instantly recognisable - people have to take note of them simply by seeing them. Carter is just a fairly normal looking bloke. If you didn't already know who he was, no one in the streets is going to give him a second glance.
Perhaps someone like Posolo Tuilagi could be the next superstar? He's a talented player, a big unit, and comes from a well-known rugby family so there's a pretty interesting story there to build around.
Steady on there Zoolander……
I know a number of women and also some blokes who would vehemently dispute that.
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Oh to be so good looking that Dan is seen as normal
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Oh to be so good looking that Dan is seen as normal
@mariner4life said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
Oh to be so good looking that Dan is seen as normal
Without going into the merits of his attractiveness or not, Carter is only Dan in NZ, everywhere else he is either Dan Carter or "who" on non rugby playing nations. Jonah Lomu is simply Jonah, more or less everywhere.
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@mariner4life said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
Oh to be so good looking that Dan is seen as normal
Without going into the merits of his attractiveness or not, Carter is only Dan in NZ, everywhere else he is either Dan Carter or "who" on non rugby playing nations. Jonah Lomu is simply Jonah, more or less everywhere.
@Catogrande said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@mariner4life said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
Oh to be so good looking that Dan is seen as normal
Without going into the merits of his attractiveness or not, Carter is only Dan in NZ, everywhere else he is either Dan Carter or "who" on non rugby playing nations. Jonah Lomu is simply Jonah, more or less everywhere.
my wife knows the "underpants man" by sight, not that Jonah character. I don't think she knows or cares much about his rugby ability.
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I don’t think anyone has mentioned yet Handré Pollard, currently the best paid player in the world, or Owen Farrell, currently the second best paid player in the world.
Super tight modern defences and censorious officiating have put a premium on hard-tackling, goalkickers above spectacular, charismatic try-scorers.
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@Catogrande said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@mariner4life said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
Oh to be so good looking that Dan is seen as normal
Without going into the merits of his attractiveness or not, Carter is only Dan in NZ, everywhere else he is either Dan Carter or "who" on non rugby playing nations. Jonah Lomu is simply Jonah, more or less everywhere.
my wife knows the "underpants man" by sight, not that Jonah character. I don't think she knows or cares much about his rugby ability.
@nostrildamus said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@Catogrande said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@mariner4life said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
Oh to be so good looking that Dan is seen as normal
Without going into the merits of his attractiveness or not, Carter is only Dan in NZ, everywhere else he is either Dan Carter or "who" on non rugby playing nations. Jonah Lomu is simply Jonah, more or less everywhere.
my wife knows the "underpants man" by sight, not that Jonah character. I don't think she knows or cares much about his rugby ability.
David Beckham? He's a footballer. Or was.
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@nostrildamus said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@Catogrande said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@mariner4life said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
Oh to be so good looking that Dan is seen as normal
Without going into the merits of his attractiveness or not, Carter is only Dan in NZ, everywhere else he is either Dan Carter or "who" on non rugby playing nations. Jonah Lomu is simply Jonah, more or less everywhere.
my wife knows the "underpants man" by sight, not that Jonah character. I don't think she knows or cares much about his rugby ability.
David Beckham? He's a footballer. Or was.
@Catogrande said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@nostrildamus said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@Catogrande said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@mariner4life said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
Oh to be so good looking that Dan is seen as normal
Without going into the merits of his attractiveness or not, Carter is only Dan in NZ, everywhere else he is either Dan Carter or "who" on non rugby playing nations. Jonah Lomu is simply Jonah, more or less everywhere.
my wife knows the "underpants man" by sight, not that Jonah character. I don't think she knows or cares much about his rugby ability.
David Beckham? He's a footballer. Or was.
Dan Carter. But she knows Beckham because of the phrase and the movie.
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@Catogrande said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@nostrildamus said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@Catogrande said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
@mariner4life said in Does Rugby have a Superstar?:
Oh to be so good looking that Dan is seen as normal
Without going into the merits of his attractiveness or not, Carter is only Dan in NZ, everywhere else he is either Dan Carter or "who" on non rugby playing nations. Jonah Lomu is simply Jonah, more or less everywhere.
my wife knows the "underpants man" by sight, not that Jonah character. I don't think she knows or cares much about his rugby ability.
David Beckham? He's a footballer. Or was.
Dan Carter. But she knows Beckham because of the phrase and the movie.
@nostrildamus Not his underwear modelling then?
