NZR review
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I hope the players come to their senses. All of the media coverage has been been to amplify the rhetoric of the NZRP - they wanted the review, they chose the reviewers. The public could easily turn against them if they continue to behave poorly.
But, you would not expect anything else from Super Rugby Franchises who have never given a shit about club or NPC rugby. Also, special thanks to Blues for all the games they have player at Ōkara Park over the years - 2. Allowing private ownership of SR franchises was a big mistake.
@kev said in NZR review:
Also, special thanks to Blues for all the games they have player at Ōkara Park over the years - 2
Fair play, they scheduled a third but Covid munted that.
I'd love to see more games travel around with Super, but the structure at the moment incentivises single stadiums, season memberships. Super doesn't know what it is - a feeder comp for the All Blacks, or a standalone premier competition.
Rest period for players, no independent board (until recently) with any autonomy, weird financing arrangements with stakeholders... it's just an unusual setup. And they killed it, just like the NPC. Hopefully we see reinvigoration after the NZR vote.
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@kev said in NZR review:
Also, special thanks to Blues for all the games they have player at Ōkara Park over the years - 2
Fair play, they scheduled a third but Covid munted that.
I'd love to see more games travel around with Super, but the structure at the moment incentivises single stadiums, season memberships. Super doesn't know what it is - a feeder comp for the All Blacks, or a standalone premier competition.
Rest period for players, no independent board (until recently) with any autonomy, weird financing arrangements with stakeholders... it's just an unusual setup. And they killed it, just like the NPC. Hopefully we see reinvigoration after the NZR vote.
@nzzp a thing that has taken away from the impact of SR for me has been the commercialisation of the game without adequate reference to it history. It started as tribal regional based competition but abandoned that quickly to become just 5 professional clubs. I don’t have a SR team, gave up tickets a long time ago.
Then if you compare the marketing of the game to NRL it’s like night and day. The commentary, analysis and enthusiasm for their product is next level. Commentators for NPC rugby don’t know the players, frequently criticise the game, and act like it’s below them. There is no NZR love what so ever for NPC. Then at Super Rugby level you just get media jobs for the boys. The one that has stood out is the Aotearoa Rugby Podcast which is genuinely insightful.
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@Kirwan said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Kirwan said in NZR review:
The reviewers, deemed to be experts in their field,
People need to stop worshipping these so-called experts. Including Dylan.
Well, we've had at least 25 years of mis-management by the status-quo, so lets get people in that have run large businesses successfully.
Meritocracy is alweays better than jobs for the boys.
How many women are on the NZR Board. What about the Chair.
Did you listen to the Dave Moffett interview? He has lots of experience and formed a different viewpoint. Like me he thinks this independent directors will solve all our problems is just bullshit. Also Robs proposal doesn't work that well according to Moffett. He gave the Wales example
Maybe the PU's took all of this into account and did the best thing. But they are mostly men so toxic masculinity... So, they can't be right I guess. Just fill the place with diversity appointments and we will be led to the promised land.
@Winger said in NZR review:
Did you listen to the Dave Moffett interview? He has lots of experience and formed a different viewpoint. Like me he thinks this independent directors will solve all our problems is just bullshit. Also Robs proposal doesn't work that well according to Moffett. He gave the Wales example
Given Moffett's record, he's a bloody good contrary indicator.
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@Winger said in NZR review:
Did you listen to the Dave Moffett interview? He has lots of experience and formed a different viewpoint. Like me he thinks this independent directors will solve all our problems is just bullshit. Also Robs proposal doesn't work that well according to Moffett. He gave the Wales example
Given Moffett's record, he's a bloody good contrary indicator.
@Frank said in NZR review:
@Winger said in NZR review:
Did you listen to the Dave Moffett interview? He has lots of experience and formed a different viewpoint. Like me he thinks this independent directors will solve all our problems is just bullshit. Also Robs proposal doesn't work that well according to Moffett. He gave the Wales example
Given Moffett's record, he's a bloody good contrary indicator.
Could you expand on this? or have you heard this somewhere. In Wales for example he took over a Union in a =difficult position financially and had to force through some tough decision
Welsh Rugby Union
Moffett was the CEO of the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) from 2002 to 2005.[5] He took up his post at the WRU on 2 December 2002 having beaten off over 100 other applicants to the job, and immediately set about controlling the WRU's finances who were by this time heavily in debt (around £55 million) due to poor management of funds and expenditure on facilities such as the Millennium Stadium. Moffett created an 18-man board of directors, replacing a 27-man committee as part of his streamlining of administration at the Union.Moffett also gained backing to dismiss the Wales 'A' Team, long considered an important development side playing at a level just below that of full international level, in order to save money and develop rugby players at a higher level.
Regional Rugby
However the most controversial decision Moffett took was the introduction of regional rugby to Wales. After much discussion with the clubs, he got his wish and for the 2003–04 season five regions were created, some jointly owned by two of the former clubs and two (Llanelli Scarlets and Cardiff Blues) were owned by only one club, prompting complaints of favouritism from supporters of the other clubs. -
and here's some more from Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Moffett
Moffett's roles in sports administration have included:
An administrator at the International Rugby Board;[1]
One of the chief architects of SANZAR (South Africa, New Zealand and Australia Rugby) in 1996;[7]
Executive director of the New South Wales Rugby Union, starting in 1992;[1]
Chief executive at the New Zealand Rugby Union from 1996 to 2000,[8][7] being the first non-New Zealander to hold the role;[1]
Chief executive at Australia's National Rugby League, starting in 1999. The appointment of a rugby union executive to oversee rugby league led to speculation that he was there to merge the two sports,[7][9] but this did not eventuate. He held this position until 2001;[citation needed]
Chief executive of Sport England: Moffett left Sport England acrimoniously in 2002 after only 10 months in the job, and complained that he was restricted "by too many committees run by too many blazers".[4] He earned £140,000 a year in the role;[citation needed]
Chef executive officer of the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) from 2002 to 2005.[5]
Moffett was offered the role of chief executive for the English Football Association in 2003, but turned the position down.[4] -
and here's some more from Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Moffett
Moffett's roles in sports administration have included:
An administrator at the International Rugby Board;[1]
One of the chief architects of SANZAR (South Africa, New Zealand and Australia Rugby) in 1996;[7]
Executive director of the New South Wales Rugby Union, starting in 1992;[1]
Chief executive at the New Zealand Rugby Union from 1996 to 2000,[8][7] being the first non-New Zealander to hold the role;[1]
Chief executive at Australia's National Rugby League, starting in 1999. The appointment of a rugby union executive to oversee rugby league led to speculation that he was there to merge the two sports,[7][9] but this did not eventuate. He held this position until 2001;[citation needed]
Chief executive of Sport England: Moffett left Sport England acrimoniously in 2002 after only 10 months in the job, and complained that he was restricted "by too many committees run by too many blazers".[4] He earned £140,000 a year in the role;[citation needed]
Chef executive officer of the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) from 2002 to 2005.[5]
Moffett was offered the role of chief executive for the English Football Association in 2003, but turned the position down.[4]@Winger said in NZR review:
and here's some more from Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Moffett
Moffett's roles in sports administration have included:
An administrator at the International Rugby Board;[1]
One of the chief architects of SANZAR (South Africa, New Zealand and Australia Rugby) in 1996;[7]
Executive director of the New South Wales Rugby Union, starting in 1992;[1]
Chief executive at the New Zealand Rugby Union from 1996 to 2000,[8][7] being the first non-New Zealander to hold the role;[1]
Chief executive at Australia's National Rugby League, starting in 1999. The appointment of a rugby union executive to oversee rugby league led to speculation that he was there to merge the two sports,[7][9] but this did not eventuate. He held this position until 2001;[citation needed]
Chief executive of Sport England: Moffett left Sport England acrimoniously in 2002 after only 10 months in the job, and complained that he was restricted "by too many committees run by too many blazers".[4] He earned £140,000 a year in the role;[citation needed]
Chef executive officer of the Welsh Rugby Union (WRU) from 2002 to 2005.[5]
Moffett was offered the role of chief executive for the English Football Association in 2003, but turned the position down.[4]Is this to demonstrate he is supposed to have some expertise to speak of and hence we should listen to his opinion?
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In today's Sunday Star-Times.
Peter Winchester is the Chair of Canterbury Rugby
Opinion: This weekend Southern RFC and Green Island RFC mark their 140th year in Dunedin, and the Blues in Invercargill celebrate their 150th. Community rugby annuals are always a tremendous occasion, with old friends, old rivalries, and exceptional sportsmanship.
These are the people and the values I voted for on Thursday when at the Rugby Union headquarters in Wellington.
My vote, along with 75% of the provincial unions, was for what was called “Proposal 2” – a new system for recruiting, appointing, and advising the New Zealand Rugby Board. This proposal had been created by a core of unions in response to the New Zealand Rugby Board’s own “Proposal 1”.
The proposals were almost identical, except for two main sticking points.
Firstly, we believed it untenable that a Board of New Zealand Rugby could have no members that had spent any time in management of regional rugby.
It is fair, reasonable and logical that some members of the Board know how their decisions impact management of provincial rugby. No other organisation, business or community, would stand to have Board members that had no experience of the field they were governing.
We had already agreed to the biggest shift ever: that no members will be elected by the Provincial Unions. After about 150 years we have handed over control to a process that will identify and appoint the very best people that can be found. We have no influence on that panel and no control of the outcome.
We wanted to ensure the Board would understand and appreciate the impact of their work and decisions on community rugby. We determined that the best way was for three of the members to have served on a Provincial Board at some point. It didn’t matter when, or for how long.
The second sticking point was an appreciation of the impact and role of Māori and Pasifika, who contribute significantly to the game without formal recognition at a board level. Our proposal requires one of the Board members to be grounded in Māori rugby, and one in Pasifika.
The independent selection, appointment and backgrounds of Board members is the modernisation of the Board that almost everyone has wanted – including provincial unions.
We came a long way this week in updating oversight of the New Zealand game, both professional and amateur.
The new Board will be capable of overseeing NZR’s international and commercial activity, and its management of the domestic game.
Proposal two was supported because the heart of the game must remain anchored in the players and volunteers across Aotearoa.
A new Board will soon be selected. We expect plenty of applications from the hundreds of talented professionals with current or previous experience running rugby Boards and clubs across the nation.
Much has been made about the decision this week. There have been some wild claims in the heat of the discussion. Everyone who cares about rugby will commit to this democratically chosen proposal.
This weekend 150,000 people played rugby, aided by 30,000 volunteers, and watched by tens of thousands more.
Those are the people the Board serves, as do provincial unions.
We’re pleased to say that their game continues. -
In today's Sunday Star-Times.
Peter Winchester is the Chair of Canterbury Rugby
Opinion: This weekend Southern RFC and Green Island RFC mark their 140th year in Dunedin, and the Blues in Invercargill celebrate their 150th. Community rugby annuals are always a tremendous occasion, with old friends, old rivalries, and exceptional sportsmanship.
These are the people and the values I voted for on Thursday when at the Rugby Union headquarters in Wellington.
My vote, along with 75% of the provincial unions, was for what was called “Proposal 2” – a new system for recruiting, appointing, and advising the New Zealand Rugby Board. This proposal had been created by a core of unions in response to the New Zealand Rugby Board’s own “Proposal 1”.
The proposals were almost identical, except for two main sticking points.
Firstly, we believed it untenable that a Board of New Zealand Rugby could have no members that had spent any time in management of regional rugby.
It is fair, reasonable and logical that some members of the Board know how their decisions impact management of provincial rugby. No other organisation, business or community, would stand to have Board members that had no experience of the field they were governing.
We had already agreed to the biggest shift ever: that no members will be elected by the Provincial Unions. After about 150 years we have handed over control to a process that will identify and appoint the very best people that can be found. We have no influence on that panel and no control of the outcome.
We wanted to ensure the Board would understand and appreciate the impact of their work and decisions on community rugby. We determined that the best way was for three of the members to have served on a Provincial Board at some point. It didn’t matter when, or for how long.
The second sticking point was an appreciation of the impact and role of Māori and Pasifika, who contribute significantly to the game without formal recognition at a board level. Our proposal requires one of the Board members to be grounded in Māori rugby, and one in Pasifika.
The independent selection, appointment and backgrounds of Board members is the modernisation of the Board that almost everyone has wanted – including provincial unions.
We came a long way this week in updating oversight of the New Zealand game, both professional and amateur.
The new Board will be capable of overseeing NZR’s international and commercial activity, and its management of the domestic game.
Proposal two was supported because the heart of the game must remain anchored in the players and volunteers across Aotearoa.
A new Board will soon be selected. We expect plenty of applications from the hundreds of talented professionals with current or previous experience running rugby Boards and clubs across the nation.
Much has been made about the decision this week. There have been some wild claims in the heat of the discussion. Everyone who cares about rugby will commit to this democratically chosen proposal.
This weekend 150,000 people played rugby, aided by 30,000 volunteers, and watched by tens of thousands more.
Those are the people the Board serves, as do provincial unions.
We’re pleased to say that their game continues. -
Good PR move.
A few small omissions in there - they have outsized influence on the GAP panel (totally omitted) and the last part about experience on rugby clubs is misleading - it specifically states experience on a PU board - not rugby club president, not Super experience, just experience on a PU board.
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Good PR move.
A few small omissions in there - they have outsized influence on the GAP panel (totally omitted) and the last part about experience on rugby clubs is misleading - it specifically states experience on a PU board - not rugby club president, not Super experience, just experience on a PU board.
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Good PR move.
A few small omissions in there - they have outsized influence on the GAP panel (totally omitted) and the last part about experience on rugby clubs is misleading - it specifically states experience on a PU board - not rugby club president, not Super experience, just experience on a PU board.
@gt12 said in NZR review:
Good PR move.
A few small omissions in there - they have outsized influence on the GAP panel (totally omitted) and the last part about experience on rugby clubs is misleading - it specifically states experience on a PU board - not rugby club president, not Super experience, just experience on a PU board.
Only three members need to have this experience. Not the other 6. Even the three can have other experience.
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@gt12 said in NZR review:
Good PR move.
I just posted it for those interested. I don't take Nichol's word as gospel either. He's looking out for his professional members, not all of the rugby community.
@Bovidae said in NZR review:
@gt12 said in NZR review:
Good PR move.
I just posted it for those interested. I don't take Nichol's word as gospel either. He's looking out for his professional members, not all of the rugby community.
Of course, you're right.
I think it's worth pointing out that there appears to be a heavy PR aspect to this that glosses over some of the other points of proposal 2.
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@Machpants said in NZR review:
Democratically voted is funny, when the franchise is not universal.
Especially as even now I believe (due to the number differing for each union), a minority of PUs can push through things ahead of the majority.
As far as I understand, that hasn’t changed either, so I think 7 or 9 unions of the bigger unions can still block anyone getting on the board or anything they don’t like at an AGM.
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In today's Sunday Star-Times.
Peter Winchester is the Chair of Canterbury Rugby
Opinion: This weekend Southern RFC and Green Island RFC mark their 140th year in Dunedin, and the Blues in Invercargill celebrate their 150th. Community rugby annuals are always a tremendous occasion, with old friends, old rivalries, and exceptional sportsmanship.
These are the people and the values I voted for on Thursday when at the Rugby Union headquarters in Wellington.
My vote, along with 75% of the provincial unions, was for what was called “Proposal 2” – a new system for recruiting, appointing, and advising the New Zealand Rugby Board. This proposal had been created by a core of unions in response to the New Zealand Rugby Board’s own “Proposal 1”.
The proposals were almost identical, except for two main sticking points.
Firstly, we believed it untenable that a Board of New Zealand Rugby could have no members that had spent any time in management of regional rugby.
It is fair, reasonable and logical that some members of the Board know how their decisions impact management of provincial rugby. No other organisation, business or community, would stand to have Board members that had no experience of the field they were governing.
We had already agreed to the biggest shift ever: that no members will be elected by the Provincial Unions. After about 150 years we have handed over control to a process that will identify and appoint the very best people that can be found. We have no influence on that panel and no control of the outcome.
We wanted to ensure the Board would understand and appreciate the impact of their work and decisions on community rugby. We determined that the best way was for three of the members to have served on a Provincial Board at some point. It didn’t matter when, or for how long.
The second sticking point was an appreciation of the impact and role of Māori and Pasifika, who contribute significantly to the game without formal recognition at a board level. Our proposal requires one of the Board members to be grounded in Māori rugby, and one in Pasifika.
The independent selection, appointment and backgrounds of Board members is the modernisation of the Board that almost everyone has wanted – including provincial unions.
We came a long way this week in updating oversight of the New Zealand game, both professional and amateur.
The new Board will be capable of overseeing NZR’s international and commercial activity, and its management of the domestic game.
Proposal two was supported because the heart of the game must remain anchored in the players and volunteers across Aotearoa.
A new Board will soon be selected. We expect plenty of applications from the hundreds of talented professionals with current or previous experience running rugby Boards and clubs across the nation.
Much has been made about the decision this week. There have been some wild claims in the heat of the discussion. Everyone who cares about rugby will commit to this democratically chosen proposal.
This weekend 150,000 people played rugby, aided by 30,000 volunteers, and watched by tens of thousands more.
Those are the people the Board serves, as do provincial unions.
We’re pleased to say that their game continues. -
Yeah, all of this looks to me like everyone trying to keep their jobs (players and administrators). Only one rugby team in New Zealand actually makes money and all others are just trying to get a slice of the profit. Even the Super teams lose money and i'm thinking that if they kept separate accounts for the Highlanders franchise, their losses over the last 25 years would be astronimical!
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I can't say I'm surprised - it's not common for legacy structures to cede their own power. In the good ol' days, people would set up new competing structures if they were sufficiently ticked off - will be interesting to see if the RPA actually end up doing that.
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@Machpants said in NZR review:
Democratically voted is funny, when the franchise is not universal.
Especially as even now I believe (due to the number differing for each union), a minority of PUs can push through things ahead of the majority.
As far as I understand, that hasn’t changed either, so I think 7 or 9 unions of the bigger unions can still block anyone getting on the board or anything they don’t like at an AGM.
@gt12 said in NZR review:
@Machpants said in NZR review:
Democratically voted is funny, when the franchise is not universal.
Especially as even now I believe (due to the number differing for each union), a minority of PUs can push through things ahead of the majority.
As far as I understand, that hasn’t changed either, so I think 7 or 9 unions of the bigger unions can still block anyone getting on the board or anything they don’t like at an AGM.
This is the salient point people appear to not understand or are wilfully ignoring: You don't need to be on the board to determine its decision making if you control who can sit on the board.
