RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland
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If we count Leicester as a utility back, is this the first time in some while we don't have a specialist wing in the 23? At least we have 5 or so fullback options. The starting #15 must be exceptional!
@nostrildamus said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
If we count Leicester as a utility back, is this the first time in some while we don't have a specialist wing in the 23? At least we have 5 or so fullback options. The starting #15 must be exceptional!
That's moving the goal posts though isn't it. Fainga'anuku has played nearly all of his rugby for the ABs on the wing, likewise for the Crusaders.
By your argument, we don't have any specialist midfielders in the starting XV.
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@KiwiMurph said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Mark Telea is a tool for breaking curfew.
As were Israel Dagg and Cory Jane days before 2011 RWC Quarterfinal. The difference was they weren't dropped.
For whatever reason, I don’t think two scenarios can be compared.
Remember the 2007 RWC selection and Weepu, Filipo, Flavell, Schwalger all missed selection but yet Snakey got a pass. It’s arguable that only one of Filipo or Flavell would’ve made it, but it did result in Thorne getting a recall. Weepu definitely should’ve made the squad.
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
For whatever reason, I don’t think two scenarios can be compared.
Why not?
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@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Mark Telea is a tool for breaking curfew.
My thoughts too... even if it is half an hour, it doesn't matter. In the week of the biggest game of your career you shouldn't even be running it close.
@frugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Mark Telea is a tool for breaking curfew.
My thoughts too... even if it is half an hour, it doesn't matter. In the week of the biggest game of your career you shouldn't even be running it close.
definitely....primary responsibility rests with him....but i cant help feeling most other coaches would have made it clear how disappointed they were but inspired a player to redeem themselves on the pitch...hell, have him as one of the players doing press and own it "yeah i made a mistake....and im so glad the coach and team are giving me the chance to go out there and make it up to them"
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@Kirwan said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Question worth considering regarding Telea, was the punishment decided by the player leadership group?
Does that group include Scott Barrett, Taylor, Whitelock and Mounga?
You’re suggesting there’s leadership in this team?
@MajorRage leadership? yes! Strategy and fall back plans? yeeeaaahhh naaaahh
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If we win does it mean Roigard's not in contention for the SF. Could be another 2 and 15 situation.
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At least CC and EB had a nice holiday
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@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Mark Telea is a tool for breaking curfew.
As were Israel Dagg and Cory Jane days before 2011 RWC Quarterfinal. The difference was they weren't dropped.
@KiwiMurph said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Mark Telea is a tool for breaking curfew.
As were Israel Dagg and Cory Jane days before 2011 RWC Quarterfinal. The difference was they weren't dropped.
Except they never actually broke the rules, it just wasn't a good look. There was no policy on drinking, not was there a curfew in effect at that time. In addition the leadership group make these calls, not Foster, unless he has changed things
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@nostrildamus said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
If we count Leicester as a utility back, is this the first time in some while we don't have a specialist wing in the 23? At least we have 5 or so fullback options. The starting #15 must be exceptional!
That's moving the goal posts though isn't it. Fainga'anuku has played nearly all of his rugby for the ABs on the wing, likewise for the Crusaders.
By your argument, we don't have any specialist midfielders in the starting XV.
@frugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@nostrildamus said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
If we count Leicester as a utility back, is this the first time in some while we don't have a specialist wing in the 23? At least we have 5 or so fullback options. The starting #15 must be exceptional!
That's moving the goal posts though isn't it. Fainga'anuku has played nearly all of his rugby for the ABs on the wing, likewise for the Crusaders.
By your argument, we don't have any specialist midfielders in the starting XV.Hasn't Leicester played at 12(!) and 13 for the ABs as well?
I get your point but I think you moved the goalposts with your last sentence as well, I said "in the 23" and you changed "my argument" to the starting 15!
ALB on the bench is a specialist midfielder. But back to my point at AB level they are def seeing Leicester as a utility. I also wonder "nearly all his rugby"? I recall he played on midfield or wing way back in his first year at the Crusaders (2021), so it is really nearly all his rugby on the wing? Could it be closer to 70% or so? -
"Leicester Ofa Ki Wales Twickenham Fainga'anuku"
We're very lucky he didn't play for Wales or England... -
@frugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@nostrildamus said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
If we count Leicester as a utility back, is this the first time in some while we don't have a specialist wing in the 23? At least we have 5 or so fullback options. The starting #15 must be exceptional!
That's moving the goal posts though isn't it. Fainga'anuku has played nearly all of his rugby for the ABs on the wing, likewise for the Crusaders.
By your argument, we don't have any specialist midfielders in the starting XV.Hasn't Leicester played at 12(!) and 13 for the ABs as well?
I get your point but I think you moved the goalposts with your last sentence as well, I said "in the 23" and you changed "my argument" to the starting 15!
ALB on the bench is a specialist midfielder. But back to my point at AB level they are def seeing Leicester as a utility. I also wonder "nearly all his rugby"? I recall he played on midfield or wing way back in his first year at the Crusaders (2021), so it is really nearly all his rugby on the wing? Could it be closer to 70% or so?@nostrildamus Leicester is a wing who can play in the midfield at a pinch. Even for the Mako his starts in the midfield have been rare. He'll probably shift inwards like Tana, though, because he doesn't have elite pace.
Jordan has played all but one of his tests on the wing,
They're more wings (collectively) than Kahui (a centre) and Jane (a converted fullback) who had SBW covering them in 2011.
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@nostrildamus Leicester is a wing who can play in the midfield at a pinch. Even for the Mako his starts in the midfield have been rare. He'll probably shift inwards like Tana, though, because he doesn't have elite pace.
Jordan has played all but one of his tests on the wing,
They're more wings (collectively) than Kahui (a centre) and Jane (a converted fullback) who had SBW covering them in 2011.
@Chris-B said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@nostrildamus Leicester is a wing who can play in the midfield at a pinch. Even for the Mako his starts in the midfield have been rare. He'll probably shift inwards like Tana, though, because he doesn't have elite pace.
Jordan has played all but one of his tests on the wing,
They're more wings than Kahui (a centre) and Jane (a converted fullback) who had SBW covering them in 2011.
fair enough, I'm honestly on their side, playing Jordan on the wing has been a success. Kahui and Jane had great AB careers. But there was still a specialist wing in the 23.
I also understand Leicester prefers/preferred wing, but at AB level he has to also be seen as a backup midfielder. I'm honestly surprised they tried him at 12 though. IMO he plays like a flanker! -
@KiwiMurph said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Mark Telea is a tool for breaking curfew.
As were Israel Dagg and Cory Jane days before 2011 RWC Quarterfinal. The difference was they weren't dropped.
Except they never actually broke the rules, it just wasn't a good look. There was no policy on drinking, not was there a curfew in effect at that time. In addition the leadership group make these calls, not Foster, unless he has changed things
@Machpants said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@KiwiMurph said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Mark Telea is a tool for breaking curfew.
As were Israel Dagg and Cory Jane days before 2011 RWC Quarterfinal. The difference was they weren't dropped.
Except they never actually broke the rules, it just wasn't a good look. There was no policy on drinking, not was there a curfew in effect at that time. In addition the leadership group make these calls, not Foster, unless he has changed things
That reads like semantics to me
Shand said the team had dealt with it internally and the players had been disciplined according to team protocols. "We don't have any policy on smoking or drinking, we just expect them to make good decisions. Clearly there is enough evidence out there from both sides to say they have let themselves down. Cory had better play a blinder." -
@Chris-B said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@nostrildamus Leicester is a wing who can play in the midfield at a pinch. Even for the Mako his starts in the midfield have been rare. He'll probably shift inwards like Tana, though, because he doesn't have elite pace.
Jordan has played all but one of his tests on the wing,
They're more wings than Kahui (a centre) and Jane (a converted fullback) who had SBW covering them in 2011.
fair enough, I'm honestly on their side, playing Jordan on the wing has been a success. Kahui and Jane had great AB careers. But there was still a specialist wing in the 23.
I also understand Leicester prefers/preferred wing, but at AB level he has to also be seen as a backup midfielder. I'm honestly surprised they tried him at 12 though. IMO he plays like a flanker!@nostrildamus Apparently, Leicester's first ever time at 12 - though I'd be surprised if he hadn't played a bit of time there at school (I seem to recall he was mainly a fullback in his latter years at Nelson College).
Would be a massive risk to have him in the midfield vs Ireland - LF is the 5th best midfielder at the Crusaders - but Fozzie may have been going to roll that dice.
Leicester on the bench might have added some finishing punch on the wing - and you could have trusted to luck that neither Jordie nor Rieko got injured.
I don't see ALB as anything more than injury/meltdown cover. If one of our wings gets injured, you're going to have to move Rieko out - or put DMac on the wing (I'd probably do the latter). I wouldn't use ALB in this game unless I had to.
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Re ST....is there anyone that has lifted their game under fozzie?....is there anyone that plays better for the AB's than in super anymore? feel like at most there are a few that play as well but several that seem to go down hill in the black jersey
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Re ST....is there anyone that has lifted their game under fozzie?....is there anyone that plays better for the AB's than in super anymore? feel like at most there are a few that play as well but several that seem to go down hill in the black jersey
ST hasn't played well for Chiefs really, but very few players shine more in test rugby as it a higher standard of opposition.
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@nostrildamus Apparently, Leicester's first ever time at 12 - though I'd be surprised if he hadn't played a bit of time there at school (I seem to recall he was mainly a fullback in his latter years at Nelson College).
Would be a massive risk to have him in the midfield vs Ireland - LF is the 5th best midfielder at the Crusaders - but Fozzie may have been going to roll that dice.
Leicester on the bench might have added some finishing punch on the wing - and you could have trusted to luck that neither Jordie nor Rieko got injured.
I don't see ALB as anything more than injury/meltdown cover. If one of our wings gets injured, you're going to have to move Rieko out - or put DMac on the wing (I'd probably do the latter). I wouldn't use ALB in this game unless I had to.
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Re ST....is there anyone that has lifted their game under fozzie?....is there anyone that plays better for the AB's than in super anymore? feel like at most there are a few that play as well but several that seem to go down hill in the black jersey
ST hasn't played well for Chiefs really, but very few players shine more in test rugby as it a higher standard of opposition.
@Dan54 see....my feeling with past AB's teams lots of players lifted their game, yes theyre playing higher level opposition...but you also have 22 of the best rugby players in the country around you...10's should be looking a little better getting balls from Nuggie for example, front rows should be looking a little better with BBBR/SW/SB behind them....and it should be some of if not the best coaching environment....that why, i thought, we'd have players go and train with the AB's....see if they get a little lift
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@Machpants said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@KiwiMurph said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Mark Telea is a tool for breaking curfew.
As were Israel Dagg and Cory Jane days before 2011 RWC Quarterfinal. The difference was they weren't dropped.
Except they never actually broke the rules, it just wasn't a good look. There was no policy on drinking, not was there a curfew in effect at that time. In addition the leadership group make these calls, not Foster, unless he has changed things
That reads like semantics to me
Shand said the team had dealt with it internally and the players had been disciplined according to team protocols. "We don't have any policy on smoking or drinking, we just expect them to make good decisions. Clearly there is enough evidence out there from both sides to say they have let themselves down. Cory had better play a blinder."@KiwiMurph said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Machpants said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@KiwiMurph said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Frank said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Mark Telea is a tool for breaking curfew.
As were Israel Dagg and Cory Jane days before 2011 RWC Quarterfinal. The difference was they weren't dropped.
Except they never actually broke the rules, it just wasn't a good look. There was no policy on drinking, not was there a curfew in effect at that time. In addition the leadership group make these calls, not Foster, unless he has changed things
That reads like semantics to me
Shand said the team had dealt with it internally and the players had been disciplined according to team protocols. "We don't have any policy on smoking or drinking, we just expect them to make good decisions. Clearly there is enough evidence out there from both sides to say they have let themselves down. Cory had better play a blinder."https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ace5d147-f147-4b95-9cd3-f1aca6088e1e/gif#rUWR3vxM.copy
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@Chris-B what's the evidence Leicester was going to be on the bench? It would have been 11 Telea 23 ALB surely
@KiwiMurph "...may have...".
That they gave him a run at 12 vs Uruguay - seemed an odd thing to do, when they could have moved ALB in one.
ALB on the bench doesn't really cover wing very well, because it necessitates pushing Rieko out there, which takes a big edge off our midfield attack.
Leicester on the bench doesn't cover midfield very well either.
But, I think Leicester offers more impact. I wouldn't use ALB this weekend unless we have to.
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I think ALB, Cane, BB, maybe Taylor, are considered almost set-in-stone ABs by Foster (and or assistants). Very hard to shift that.
