RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland
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@darylmitchell how would you explain Ireland's dominance in the leadup to the cup then? Could it be that they had a world class pack and a 10 that knew how to drive them around the field? Which is all that really matters in test rugby. And because they had that, all of the backs you mention (I don't think you've singled out any of their forwards?) had an easier ride and did well as a result.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
what they actually encountered was a very talented team that was for once playing with structure and to their potential. They didn't choke, they were beaten by a better team.
Exactly, we have more talented & skillful players right across the park, so does France and SA.
Ireland have lots of bit-part Super Rugby players who developed to fit seamlessly into their system, JGP, Lowe, Aki, Hansen, etc. would be lucky to get anywhere near France, NZ, or even SA's 23.
I very much disagree with No Quarter that Ireland should've won 2023 WC with the team they had.
@darylmitchell said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
what they actually encountered was a very talented team that was for once playing with structure and to their potential. They didn't choke, they were beaten by a better team.
Exactly, we have more talented & skillful players right across the park, so does France and SA.
Ireland have lots of bit-part Super Rugby players who developed to fit seamlessly into their system, JGP, Lowe, Aki, Hansen, etc. would not get anywhere near France, NZ, or even SA's 23.
Aki was one of the better RWC players, not a bit player and Lowe was great for Ireland.
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@darylmitchell you are just horrible at evaluating players
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell you are just horrible at evaluating players
if t
@No-Quarter said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell how would you explain Ireland's dominance in the leadup to the cup then? Could it be that they had a world class pack and a 10 that knew how to drive them around the field? Which is all that really matters in test rugby. And because they had that, all of the backs you mention (I don't think you've singled out any of their forwards?) had an easier ride and did well as a result.
@No-Quarter said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell how would you explain Ireland's dominance in the leadup to the cup then?
I definitely wouldn't refer to that form as 'dominance' they were winning tests but they weren't exactly convincing, prior to the tournament many pundits considered France, NZ, SA, all had an equal, if not better chance of winning 23 WC, Also Ireland almost lost to the Wallabies C team in Dublin and overcome Samoa by a couple points in the lead up.
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@darylmitchell you are just horrible at evaluating players
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell you are just horrible at evaluating players
just looking at their QF 23 on Wikipedia, only a few players I would consider for ABs, Rónan Kelleher, Caelan Doris, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong (2018-2022 form), Andrew Porter, Joe McCarthy, everyone else is quite overrated on here, and most are currently 32 or over.
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@darylmitchell said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
what they actually encountered was a very talented team that was for once playing with structure and to their potential. They didn't choke, they were beaten by a better team.
Exactly, we have more talented & skillful players right across the park, so does France and SA.
Ireland have lots of bit-part Super Rugby players who developed to fit seamlessly into their system, JGP, Lowe, Aki, Hansen, etc. would not get anywhere near France, NZ, or even SA's 23.
Aki was one of the better RWC players, not a bit player and Lowe was great for Ireland.
@nostrildamus said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
what they actually encountered was a very talented team that was for once playing with structure and to their potential. They didn't choke, they were beaten by a better team.
Exactly, we have more talented & skillful players right across the park, so does France and SA.
Ireland have lots of bit-part Super Rugby players who developed to fit seamlessly into their system, JGP, Lowe, Aki, Hansen, etc. would not get anywhere near France, NZ, or even SA's 23.
Aki was one of the better RWC players, not a bit player and Lowe was great for Ireland.
Aki is more than good enough to have played in the ABs basically over the last 6-7 years. His problem was that, 10-12 years ago, we had absolutely ridiculous depth in midfield
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@nostrildamus said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
what they actually encountered was a very talented team that was for once playing with structure and to their potential. They didn't choke, they were beaten by a better team.
Exactly, we have more talented & skillful players right across the park, so does France and SA.
Ireland have lots of bit-part Super Rugby players who developed to fit seamlessly into their system, JGP, Lowe, Aki, Hansen, etc. would not get anywhere near France, NZ, or even SA's 23.
Aki was one of the better RWC players, not a bit player and Lowe was great for Ireland.
Aki is more than good enough to have played in the ABs basically over the last 6-7 years. His problem was that, 10-12 years ago, we had absolutely ridiculous depth in midfield
@junior sure good enough to get a few caps like Seta Tamanivalu or George Moala, nothing further than that imo.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Bones said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader the communication, confidence, trust and tenacity shown there has become very rare in the past 6 years. Amazing to watch that and see them just all lined up every time, getting off the ground and not panicking.
I might be getting sentimental in my old age, but that whole sequence made me feel pretty proud as an AB fan.
I didn't believe the ABs had it in them to play that well for that long. At the end of the game I literally laughed out loud - it was a ridiculous win
@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Bones said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader the communication, confidence, trust and tenacity shown there has become very rare in the past 6 years. Amazing to watch that and see them just all lined up every time, getting off the ground and not panicking.
I might be getting sentimental in my old age, but that whole sequence made me feel pretty proud as an AB fan.
I didn't believe the ABs had it in them to play that well for that long. At the end of the game I literally laughed out loud - it was a ridiculous win
One of the great AB wins of my lifetime. Experienced some great AB wins, but that was just raw, undiluted courage and focus, up there with '96 in Sth Africa
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@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Bones said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader the communication, confidence, trust and tenacity shown there has become very rare in the past 6 years. Amazing to watch that and see them just all lined up every time, getting off the ground and not panicking.
I might be getting sentimental in my old age, but that whole sequence made me feel pretty proud as an AB fan.
I didn't believe the ABs had it in them to play that well for that long. At the end of the game I literally laughed out loud - it was a ridiculous win
One of the great AB wins of my lifetime. Experienced some great AB wins, but that was just raw, undiluted courage and focus, up there with '96 in Sth Africa
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Bones said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader the communication, confidence, trust and tenacity shown there has become very rare in the past 6 years. Amazing to watch that and see them just all lined up every time, getting off the ground and not panicking.
I might be getting sentimental in my old age, but that whole sequence made me feel pretty proud as an AB fan.
I didn't believe the ABs had it in them to play that well for that long. At the end of the game I literally laughed out loud - it was a ridiculous win
One of the great AB wins of my lifetime. Experienced some great AB wins, but that was just raw, undiluted courage and focus, up there with '96 in Sth Africa
RWC and then our performanes this year have made Foster look a lot better. This doens't please me, but it's fair.
Hoping for a statement game this weekend, but not expecting it.
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@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell you are just horrible at evaluating players
just looking at their QF 23 on Wikipedia, only a few players I would consider for ABs, Rónan Kelleher, Caelan Doris, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong (2018-2022 form), Andrew Porter, Joe McCarthy, everyone else is quite overrated on here, and most are currently 32 or over.
@darylmitchell said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell you are just horrible at evaluating players
just looking at their QF 23 on Wikipedia, only a few players I would consider for ABs, Rónan Kelleher, Caelan Doris, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong (2018-2022 form), Andrew Porter, Joe McCarthy, everyone else is quite overrated on here, and most are currently 32 or over.
I wonder how many nz players the Irish would take…
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@darylmitchell said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell you are just horrible at evaluating players
just looking at their QF 23 on Wikipedia, only a few players I would consider for ABs, Rónan Kelleher, Caelan Doris, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong (2018-2022 form), Andrew Porter, Joe McCarthy, everyone else is quite overrated on here, and most are currently 32 or over.
I wonder how many nz players the Irish would take…
@Billy-Tell said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell you are just horrible at evaluating players
just looking at their QF 23 on Wikipedia, only a few players I would consider for ABs, Rónan Kelleher, Caelan Doris, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong (2018-2022 form), Andrew Porter, Joe McCarthy, everyone else is quite overrated on here, and most are currently 32 or over.
I wonder how many nz players the Irish would take…
at least 3, and one coach
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Bones said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader the communication, confidence, trust and tenacity shown there has become very rare in the past 6 years. Amazing to watch that and see them just all lined up every time, getting off the ground and not panicking.
I might be getting sentimental in my old age, but that whole sequence made me feel pretty proud as an AB fan.
I didn't believe the ABs had it in them to play that well for that long. At the end of the game I literally laughed out loud - it was a ridiculous win
One of the great AB wins of my lifetime. Experienced some great AB wins, but that was just raw, undiluted courage and focus, up there with '96 in Sth Africa
RWC and then our performanes this year have made Foster look a lot better. This doens't please me, but it's fair.
Hoping for a statement game this weekend, but not expecting it.
@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@nzzp said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Bones said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader the communication, confidence, trust and tenacity shown there has become very rare in the past 6 years. Amazing to watch that and see them just all lined up every time, getting off the ground and not panicking.
I might be getting sentimental in my old age, but that whole sequence made me feel pretty proud as an AB fan.
I didn't believe the ABs had it in them to play that well for that long. At the end of the game I literally laughed out loud - it was a ridiculous win
One of the great AB wins of my lifetime. Experienced some great AB wins, but that was just raw, undiluted courage and focus, up there with '96 in Sth Africa
RWC and then our performanes this year have made Foster look a lot better. This doens't please me, but it's fair.
Probably his peak performance as coach and as good as any win by a AB coach. He was clearly rated by the players and boy, were they up for that game.
Hoping for a statement game this weekend, but not expecting it.
In many ways, I'd prefer steady improvement rather than a crap game followed by a "statement".
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Keenan is better than Barrett at 15
Lowe would have walked in
Aki v jordie is a toss up
JGP would walk in to the ABs now, but he wouldn't thrn because A Smith
JvdF and Doris would have started for us. Both guns.Their locks were good but so were ours.
That was a great team.
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Keenan is better than Barrett at 15
Lowe would have walked in
Aki v jordie is a toss up
JGP would walk in to the ABs now, but he wouldn't thrn because A Smith
JvdF and Doris would have started for us. Both guns.Their locks were good but so were ours.
That was a great team.
@mariner4life yeah I'd love to see prime JGP combination with DMac. Both with brilliant vision and ability to work the inside defence.
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Keenan is better than Barrett at 15
Lowe would have walked in
Aki v jordie is a toss up
JGP would walk in to the ABs now, but he wouldn't thrn because A Smith
JvdF and Doris would have started for us. Both guns.Their locks were good but so were ours.
That was a great team.
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Keenan is better than Barrett at 15
Lowe would have walked in
Aki v jordie is a toss up
JGP would walk in to the ABs now, but he wouldn't thrn because A Smith
JvdF and Doris would have started for us. Both guns.Their locks were good but so were ours.
That was a great team.
Foster had a whole spine of U20 winning players (2009, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2015, 2017) and the last of a golden generation that started with Rennie's juniors winning the U20s in 2008.
Ireland had a good team with mostly solid players (a few U20 runner's up from 2016), personally I never thought of that QF result as an upset, rather that NZ's players performed to their real potential after Schmidt took over strategy from Fozzie.
Remember Schmiddy was in charge for test 1 at home in 2022 where we beat Ireland 42-16, this isn't some coincidence.
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@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell you are just horrible at evaluating players
just looking at their QF 23 on Wikipedia, only a few players I would consider for ABs, Rónan Kelleher, Caelan Doris, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong (2018-2022 form), Andrew Porter, Joe McCarthy, everyone else is quite overrated on here, and most are currently 32 or over.
@darylmitchell said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@darylmitchell you are just horrible at evaluating players
just looking at their QF 23 on Wikipedia, only a few players I would consider for ABs, Rónan Kelleher, Caelan Doris, Dan Sheehan, Tadhg Furlong (2018-2022 form), Andrew Porter, Joe McCarthy, everyone else is quite overrated on here, and most are currently 32 or over.
I think I'm second to this, but I think we are just a quick whip-around from us getting (edit: politely requesting) the mods to rename you Fitzy.
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Keenan is better than Barrett at 15
Lowe would have walked in
Aki v jordie is a toss up
JGP would walk in to the ABs now, but he wouldn't thrn because A Smith
JvdF and Doris would have started for us. Both guns.Their locks were good but so were ours.
That was a great team.
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Keenan is better than Barrett at 15
Lowe would have walked in
Aki v jordie is a toss up
JGP would walk in to the ABs now, but he wouldn't thrn because A Smith
JvdF and Doris would have started for us. Both guns.Their locks were good but so were ours.
That was a great team.
If we had turned from Nonu to Aki...
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Keenan is better than Barrett at 15
Lowe would have walked in
Aki v jordie is a toss up
JGP would walk in to the ABs now, but he wouldn't thrn because A Smith
JvdF and Doris would have started for us. Both guns.Their locks were good but so were ours.
That was a great team.
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Lowe would have walked in
Walked in over 2023 RWC Telea and Will Jordan?
DisagreeEDIT - forgot about Telea having the curfew issue.
I would put Lowe in the toss up category
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Fair. I just love his energy, accuracy and kicking game.
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Fair. I just love his energy, accuracy and kicking game.
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Fair. I just love his energy, accuracy and kicking game.
He left at about the same time, maybe a bit before the AB selectors fell in love with George Bridge (I believe @dogmeat has specific experience of hearing one of the selectors on this)
I know there are age differences between the two, but Lowe's left boot, established super experience, and energy would have made him an interesting squaddie in 2017 when we were still trying to roll out Savea and Naholo (who weren't going to make the WC) and banking on Ioane (who was injured when it mattered in 2019).
I know who I'd have preferred on the left wing that day in 2019 against England, anyway.
Edit: And BTW, fuck James Lowe. And Aki. Leaving is fine, but turning out for another country is not cool - no free beers from @gt12 if we run in to each other in a pub somewhere.
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@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Fair. I just love his energy, accuracy and kicking game.
He left at about the same time, maybe a bit before the AB selectors fell in love with George Bridge (I believe @dogmeat has specific experience of hearing one of the selectors on this)
I know there are age differences between the two, but Lowe's left boot, established super experience, and energy would have made him an interesting squaddie in 2017 when we were still trying to roll out Savea and Naholo (who weren't going to make the WC) and banking on Ioane (who was injured when it mattered in 2019).
I know who I'd have preferred on the left wing that day in 2019 against England, anyway.
Edit: And BTW, fuck James Lowe. And Aki. Leaving is fine, but turning out for another country is not cool - no free beers from @gt12 if we run in to each other in a pub somewhere.
