RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina
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@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
I think this is in many ways correct. The All Blacks are different (at least historically) to other countries in that we are dominant all the time, and do well at World Cups. We haven't been like France, South Africa, even Australia, who peak at World Cups, often because players who hadn't been involved across the cycle due to eligibility rules are parachuted in.
Now I don't think we can call Foster a failure if we win the World Cup, but he is also definitely not a failure, and will be deserving of the praise that should come.
The question is, is this the new normal? I think there is probably something in the fact that the current set of All Blacks are not actually better, certainly not markedly better than France, Ireland and South Africa.
@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
I think this is in many ways correct. The All Blacks are different (at least historically) to other countries in that we are dominant all the time, and do well at World Cups. We haven't been like France, South Africa, even Australia, who peak at World Cups, often because players who hadn't been involved across the cycle due to eligibility rules are parachuted in.
Now I don't think we can call Foster a failure if we win the World Cup, but he is also definitely not a failure, and will be deserving of the praise that should come.
The question is, is this the new normal? I think there is probably something in the fact that the current set of All Blacks are not actually better, certainly not markedly better than France, Ireland and South Africa.
I think this probably is closer to normal now, I know we all toss off that ABs have generally been on top or thereabouts all the time, but have a look, so historically are our U20s. The rest of the world has caught up, I thought they would earlier when game went pro, but it is happening.
Would I rather have it where we have to fight more for wins or have it like it was in days when we turned up and basically beat most teams uo like the late 80S, I will have us having to be at top of our game to win, it's a lot more satisfying. -
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
@Victor-Meldrew - oh yes as a kid watching those '71 Lions win the series
John Eales and that ridulous kick to retain the Cup
Those were real bad times -
It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
98 was fucking vintage compared to some of the bumbling, clueless losses under Foster.
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@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
I think this is in many ways correct. The All Blacks are different (at least historically) to other countries in that we are dominant all the time, and do well at World Cups. We haven't been like France, South Africa, even Australia, who peak at World Cups, often because players who hadn't been involved across the cycle due to eligibility rules are parachuted in.
Now I don't think we can call Foster a failure if we win the World Cup, but he is also definitely not a failure, and will be deserving of the praise that should come.
The question is, is this the new normal? I think there is probably something in the fact that the current set of All Blacks are not actually better, certainly not markedly better than France, Ireland and South Africa.
I think this probably is closer to normal now, I know we all toss off that ABs have generally been on top or thereabouts all the time, but have a look, so historically are our U20s. The rest of the world has caught up, I thought they would earlier when game went pro, but it is happening.
Would I rather have it where we have to fight more for wins or have it like it was in days when we turned up and basically beat most teams uo like the late 80S, I will have us having to be at top of our game to win, it's a lot more satisfying.@Dan54 said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@frugby said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
I still stand by lowest ever word ranking and also biggest ever losses against pretty much every Tier 1 side means he has been a disaster for the ABs. I love for us to win the RWC but the shit that has gone on before makes it not worth it.
I think this is in many ways correct. The All Blacks are different (at least historically) to other countries in that we are dominant all the time, and do well at World Cups. We haven't been like France, South Africa, even Australia, who peak at World Cups, often because players who hadn't been involved across the cycle due to eligibility rules are parachuted in.
Now I don't think we can call Foster a failure if we win the World Cup, but he is also definitely not a failure, and will be deserving of the praise that should come.
The question is, is this the new normal? I think there is probably something in the fact that the current set of All Blacks are not actually better, certainly not markedly better than France, Ireland and South Africa.
I think this probably is closer to normal now, I know we all toss off that ABs have generally been on top or thereabouts all the time, but have a look, so historically are our U20s. The rest of the world has caught up, I thought they would earlier when game went pro, but it is happening.
Would I rather have it where we have to fight more for wins or have it like it was in days when we turned up and basically beat most teams uo like the late 80S, I will have us having to be at top of our game to win, it's a lot more satisfying.The rest of the world, i.e. Ireland. I think most can cop losses to better teams with better players, but its the manner of these recent losses (and that fůcking draw with England) that people are complaining about. Everything from the tactics, to selections, to execution has been substandard. They pulled it together against Ireland now, awesome, it was glorious. But surely you have to admit that this side played some pretty shit rugby up until then and that wasn't because everyone else is now just better than us.
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@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
Not in Tests they don't.
Vodanovich 3 years, 10 Tests, won 4, drew 1.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
Not in Tests they don't.
Vodanovich 3 years, 10 Tests, won 4, drew 1.
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
Not in Tests they don't.
Vodanovich 3 years, 10 Tests, won 4, drew 1.
Vodanovich’s overall record is far better 81%
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
If people think the last 4 years were shit and damaged the legacy, they didn't live thru the '70's...
Just on that, all the coaches during the 70s have better records than Foz. It’s the 50s that were worst.
Not in Tests they don't.
Vodanovich 3 years, 10 Tests, won 4, drew 1.
Vodanovich’s overall record is far better 81%
I've sure if Foster's All Blacks played 30 games against the likes of Outer Natal or Oxford University, his record would be better. Heck the AB's lost games to English, Irish & Welsh club teams back then
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@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
None of them lost to Ireland or Argentina, Foster has done both
Foster hasn't lost to Wales either. We lost to Irish & Welsh club teams in the '70's
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@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
None of them lost to Ireland or Argentina, Foster has done both
Foster hasn't lost to Wales either. We lost to Irish & Welsh club teams in the '70's
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
None of them lost to Ireland or Argentina, Foster has done both
Foster hasn't lost to Wales either. We lost to Irish & Welsh club teams in the '70's
Cos it didn't matter, it was the test that did. Different times, but tests were still all.
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@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
98 was fucking vintage compared to some of the bumbling, clueless losses under Foster.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
98 was fucking vintage compared to some of the bumbling, clueless losses under Foster.
No it was not. '98 was fucking horrific. Nothing compares to 1998 in my lifetime.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
None of them lost to Ireland or Argentina, Foster has done both
Foster hasn't lost to Wales either. We lost to Irish & Welsh club teams in the '70's
Cos it didn't matter, it was the test that did. Different times, but tests were still all.
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
None of them lost to Ireland or Argentina, Foster has done both
Foster hasn't lost to Wales either. We lost to Irish & Welsh club teams in the '70's
Cos it didn't matter, it was the test that did. Different times, but tests were still all.
There are blokes still dining out in Wales on their club victories over the ABs
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@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
None of them lost to Ireland or Argentina, Foster has done both
Foster hasn't lost to Wales either. We lost to Irish & Welsh club teams in the '70's
Cos it didn't matter, it was the test that did. Different times, but tests were still all.
There are blokes still dining out in Wales on their club victories over the ABs
@MiketheSnow said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
None of them lost to Ireland or Argentina, Foster has done both
Foster hasn't lost to Wales either. We lost to Irish & Welsh club teams in the '70's
Cos it didn't matter, it was the test that did. Different times, but tests were still all.
There are blokes still dining out in Wales on their club victories over the ABs
Very true, but on the other side it wasn't and isn't so important
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Stuff reporting Telea back, Whitelock to start/Retallick to bench and Samisoni to take Coles' bench spot
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Stuff reporting Telea back, Whitelock to start/Retallick to bench and Samisoni to take Coles' bench spot
@KiwiMurph said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Stuff reporting Telea back, Whitelock to start/Retallick to bench and Samisoni to take Coles' bench spot
Locks rotation understandable, but Sami coming back to the bench seems odd unless they feel like we will really need him against the Boks so he needs game time now?
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@KiwiMurph said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Stuff reporting Telea back, Whitelock to start/Retallick to bench and Samisoni to take Coles' bench spot
Locks rotation understandable, but Sami coming back to the bench seems odd unless they feel like we will really need him against the Boks so he needs game time now?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
Well we are yet to see Stevenson at fullback in a test match. One game on the wing when the whole team was changed doesn't answer the question of him as a fullback.
@KiwiMurph said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
Well we are yet to see Stevenson at fullback in a test match. One game on the wing when the whole team was changed doesn't answer the question of him as a fullback.
No, we just extrapolate from the glaring issues identified in SR.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
None of them lost to Ireland or Argentina, Foster has done both
Foster hasn't lost to Wales either. We lost to Irish & Welsh club teams in the '70's
Cos it didn't matter, it was the test that did. Different times, but tests were still all.
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
None of them lost to Ireland or Argentina, Foster has done both
Foster hasn't lost to Wales either. We lost to Irish & Welsh club teams in the '70's
Cos it didn't matter, it was the test that did. Different times, but tests were still all.
Bullfuckingshit.
