RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina
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For all the talk of the ABs legacy, the nature of the game today is that the RWC trumps all. You even get bonus ranking points during it.
Make no mistake, Ireland crashing out of the quarters has seriously undermined the legacy of that team, rightly or wrongly. They will only be remembered for crashing out in the quarters, not what they did leading up to it. Just like our 07 ABs.
So, it seems to me that our coaches have been targeting three specific games for a long time now. SA smacking us in a warm up game, as much as that sucked, will mean jack diddly squat if we win the whole thing. All of the talk will be about how great the ABs are at RWCs.
Yes we have a proud history where we have gone all out to win every single game we play. But in the professional era, with teams like France and Ireland really stepping up, it's just not possible to blow all and sundry away every time anymore. Hence the focus on winning the games that really matter.
We've joked about dry powder before, but in this instance that's exactly what we had. We figured out how to combat the Irish style of play, but gave them no indication at all beforehand that we had. We kept our cards close to our chest, and unveiled a new defensive system that they had no answers for in the end.
@Chris-B has been alluding to this for a while, and I think he's right, all of our planning for the last 2 years have centered around these three games.
And despite all that, we've still won every trophy on offer this year.
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And back to this game, selection exactly as expected. Being able to rotate 3 world class locks is not a luxury many teams have!
@No-Quarter said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
And back to this game, selection exactly as expected. Being able to rotate 3 world class locks is not a luxury many teams have!
South Africa ?
Or maybe the others just aren’t as good as Etzebeth.
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Dan54 you're literally lecturing me/us on how to be a good supporter, whats acceptable and whats not if we dont want to be judged as a bandwagon jumper and explained you watch live thick or thin regardless of whether you like the coach or a player...so you are saying in your eyes youre a better support than those that might have less enthusiasm for the AB's based on the last few years
dont know why i would have to have a chat with Tana, i agree with what hes saying, people changing their opinion from week to week, one or two results making people forget what they were saying as he has described...thats not the situation i was talking about
Not lecturing, anyone can be whatever kind of supporter they want, just telling you what I think is a supporter and it was about the AB legacy anyway, not about supporters. The discussion was has Foster damaged the AB legacy, I say no it takes more than a few not liking the coach to do that. But all good anyway.
@Dan54 said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Dan54 you're literally lecturing me/us on how to be a good supporter, whats acceptable and whats not if we dont want to be judged as a bandwagon jumper and explained you watch live thick or thin regardless of whether you like the coach or a player...so you are saying in your eyes youre a better support than those that might have less enthusiasm for the AB's based on the last few years
dont know why i would have to have a chat with Tana, i agree with what hes saying, people changing their opinion from week to week, one or two results making people forget what they were saying as he has described...thats not the situation i was talking about
Not lecturing, anyone can be whatever kind of supporter they want, just telling you what I think is a supporter and it was about the AB legacy anyway, not about supporters. The discussion was has Foster damaged the AB legacy, I say no it takes more than a few not liking the coach to do that. But all good anyway.
Dude, you're basically saying if you shit on Foster, you don't support the ABs. Well fuck that. Just because I think Foster is a shit coach and the record of the ABs supports that, doesn't mean I can't simultaneously cheer for the ABs. I've earnt the right to critique the ABs by all the jerseys, supporters gear, tickets I've purchased and bikes, cabinets I've built. I'm probably the only person in Canada that has a pair of All Blacks Ultraboosts, or a custom built cabinet to display my All Blacks jerseys, or a whiskey flask. The very essence of being an ABs fan is being able to critique the team when they playing shit and the coach appears to be clueless for most of the last 4 years. Maybe our expectations are too high, bordering impossible but guess what? That's why the ABs have been successful for such a long time.
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@antipodean said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@KiwiMurph said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
Well we are yet to see Stevenson at fullback in a test match. One game on the wing when the whole team was changed doesn't answer the question of him as a fullback.
No, we just extrapolate from the glaring issues identified in SR.
The same SR where Frizell, Jordie and Rieko all looked pedestrian
@KiwiMurph said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@antipodean said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@KiwiMurph said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
TBF, there were many on here who wanted Shaun Stevenson parachuted into the starting AB 15 as he had all the skills, experience was over-rated and he was the man for the big occasion. (It's the Fern way of things....)
Well we are yet to see Stevenson at fullback in a test match. One game on the wing when the whole team was changed doesn't answer the question of him as a fullback.
No, we just extrapolate from the glaring issues identified in SR.
The same SR where Frizell, Jordie and Rieko all looked pedestrian
To be fair to them and the selectors, they demonstrated a capacity to defend, on top of being known quantities.
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I think this game will give us a good indication of where the ABs are at. Ireland was a great win but jeez it took a near perfect handling game and one hell of an emotional effort. Unfortunately some of the usual problems were still there.
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@Dan54 said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Dan54 you're literally lecturing me/us on how to be a good supporter, whats acceptable and whats not if we dont want to be judged as a bandwagon jumper and explained you watch live thick or thin regardless of whether you like the coach or a player...so you are saying in your eyes youre a better support than those that might have less enthusiasm for the AB's based on the last few years
dont know why i would have to have a chat with Tana, i agree with what hes saying, people changing their opinion from week to week, one or two results making people forget what they were saying as he has described...thats not the situation i was talking about
Not lecturing, anyone can be whatever kind of supporter they want, just telling you what I think is a supporter and it was about the AB legacy anyway, not about supporters. The discussion was has Foster damaged the AB legacy, I say no it takes more than a few not liking the coach to do that. But all good anyway.
Dude, you're basically saying if you shit on Foster, you don't support the ABs. Well fuck that. Just because I think Foster is a shit coach and the record of the ABs supports that, doesn't mean I can't simultaneously cheer for the ABs. I've earnt the right to critique the ABs by all the jerseys, supporters gear, tickets I've purchased and bikes, cabinets I've built. I'm probably the only person in Canada that has a pair of All Blacks Ultraboosts, or a custom built cabinet to display my All Blacks jerseys, or a whiskey flask. The very essence of being an ABs fan is being able to critique the team when they playing shit and the coach appears to be clueless for most of the last 4 years. Maybe our expectations are too high, bordering impossible but guess what? That's why the ABs have been successful for such a long time.
@Joans-Town-Jones where did I say that? I actually say you don't have love the coach or any players, has always been case, and as I said good supporters do as you do and support the team anyway.
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@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Bones said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Bones said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
Plus, the old man gets a rest. Wouldn't be great if him or Taylor went down and we had to dust down Sami for next week when he hasn't played in forever.
Does that apply to other dirty dirties? Vai'i, Jacobsen, etc?
When they get as good as Taukeiaho and are covering for Koro, maybe.
Samisoni has been decided average this year, I'm just wondering why only him, no other not 'availability enforced' change
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Because average Samsoni is still better than Jacobson or Vaai.
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good Samsoni is on a level they couldn't dream of.
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Jacobson and Vaai aren't required in a crucial position if a 38yo gets injured.
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@Damo said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
98 was fucking vintage compared to some of the bumbling, clueless losses under Foster.
No it was not. '98 was fucking horrific. Nothing compares to 1998 in my lifetime.
No it wasn't. It was a team that had to rapidly rebuild and was bloody unlucky not to win 3 of those 5 games. They were effing robbed against SA and would have won both with video refs. I'll fucking take that over a series loss to Ireland at home, loss to SA, loss to Argentina at home and that bloody draw against England.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Damo said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
98 was fucking vintage compared to some of the bumbling, clueless losses under Foster.
No it was not. '98 was fucking horrific. Nothing compares to 1998 in my lifetime.
No it wasn't. It was a team that had to rapidly rebuild and was bloody unlucky not to win 3 of those 5 games. They were effing robbed against SA and would have won both with video refs. I'll fucking take that over a series loss to Ireland at home, loss to SA, loss to Argentina at home and that bloody draw against England.
Adding to that, we got beaten up by Ireland and dry humped by France the year before, played quite possibly the worst game of rugby against SA, ever, almost lost to Japan and Scotland in the same year. Whilst we lost tests on '98, we still won tests against good sides.
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For all the talk of the ABs legacy, the nature of the game today is that the RWC trumps all. You even get bonus ranking points during it.
Make no mistake, Ireland crashing out of the quarters has seriously undermined the legacy of that team, rightly or wrongly. They will only be remembered for crashing out in the quarters, not what they did leading up to it. Just like our 07 ABs.
So, it seems to me that our coaches have been targeting three specific games for a long time now. SA smacking us in a warm up game, as much as that sucked, will mean jack diddly squat if we win the whole thing. All of the talk will be about how great the ABs are at RWCs.
Yes we have a proud history where we have gone all out to win every single game we play. But in the professional era, with teams like France and Ireland really stepping up, it's just not possible to blow all and sundry away every time anymore. Hence the focus on winning the games that really matter.
We've joked about dry powder before, but in this instance that's exactly what we had. We figured out how to combat the Irish style of play, but gave them no indication at all beforehand that we had. We kept our cards close to our chest, and unveiled a new defensive system that they had no answers for in the end.
@Chris-B has been alluding to this for a while, and I think he's right, all of our planning for the last 2 years have centered around these three games.
And despite all that, we've still won every trophy on offer this year.
I think you're right.
And, I'm kind of hopeful that we've got our preparation spot on and - in that regard - are in the best place of anyone.
If you look at the French, they played four warm-up games - Scotland twice, Fiji and Australia - prior to playing us - and made a lot of noise about the importance of getting off to a winning start in their home RWC. Maybe they were just a tad overcooked by the time they got to the quarters - and presumably, in hindsight, would have preferred to have skipped the Scotland game that cost them Ntamack.
Ireland played a couple of warm-up games - and then had to take both of the SA and Scotland games very seriously. Group of Death draw not really doing them any favours - and remember what Graham Henry used to say about the difficulty of winning three hard tests in a row.
The Jaaps followed the same path as Ireland - and now they're going to have England - on paper a tougher assignment than Argentina.
If they make the final they'll have played Wales, NZ, Scotland, Romania, Ireland, Tonga France and England. They might be getting a bit leg weary....
By contrast, with injuries, only one warm-up game and a relatively soft pool draw, if anything we went into the Ireland game a bit under-cooked. Now we should be done to a turn - and theoretically with the weakest SF opponent.
Let's hope they are.
I want us to win comfortably, with no injuries or cards, able to run the bench early (ish), have an extra day to prepare for the final, England and SA to smash seven shades of shit out of one another, and us to run out in the Final with every preparatory advantage!!!
Go us!!!
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Damo said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@mariner4life said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
98 was fucking vintage compared to some of the bumbling, clueless losses under Foster.
No it was not. '98 was fucking horrific. Nothing compares to 1998 in my lifetime.
No it wasn't. It was a team that had to rapidly rebuild and was bloody unlucky not to win 3 of those 5 games. They were effing robbed against SA and would have won both with video refs. I'll fucking take that over a series loss to Ireland at home, loss to SA, loss to Argentina at home and that bloody draw against England.
Adding to that, we got beaten up by Ireland and dry humped by France the year before, played quite possibly the worst game of rugby against SA, ever, almost lost to Japan and Scotland in the same year. Whilst we lost tests on '98, we still won tests against good sides.
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
'98, we still won tests against good sides.
Name one
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For all the talk of the ABs legacy, the nature of the game today is that the RWC trumps all. You even get bonus ranking points during it.
Make no mistake, Ireland crashing out of the quarters has seriously undermined the legacy of that team, rightly or wrongly. They will only be remembered for crashing out in the quarters, not what they did leading up to it. Just like our 07 ABs.
So, it seems to me that our coaches have been targeting three specific games for a long time now. SA smacking us in a warm up game, as much as that sucked, will mean jack diddly squat if we win the whole thing. All of the talk will be about how great the ABs are at RWCs.
Yes we have a proud history where we have gone all out to win every single game we play. But in the professional era, with teams like France and Ireland really stepping up, it's just not possible to blow all and sundry away every time anymore. Hence the focus on winning the games that really matter.
We've joked about dry powder before, but in this instance that's exactly what we had. We figured out how to combat the Irish style of play, but gave them no indication at all beforehand that we had. We kept our cards close to our chest, and unveiled a new defensive system that they had no answers for in the end.
@Chris-B has been alluding to this for a while, and I think he's right, all of our planning for the last 2 years have centered around these three games.
And despite all that, we've still won every trophy on offer this year.
@No-Quarter said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
For all the talk of the ABs legacy, the nature of the game today is that the RWC trumps all. You even get bonus ranking points during it.
Make no mistake, Ireland crashing out of the quarters has seriously undermined the legacy of that team, rightly or wrongly. They will only be remembered for crashing out in the quarters, not what they did leading up to it. Just like our 07 ABs.
So, it seems to me that our coaches have been targeting three specific games for a long time now. SA smacking us in a warm up game, as much as that sucked, will mean jack diddly squat if we win the whole thing. All of the talk will be about how great the ABs are at RWCs.
Yes we have a proud history where we have gone all out to win every single game we play. But in the professional era, with teams like France and Ireland really stepping up, it's just not possible to blow all and sundry away every time anymore. Hence the focus on winning the games that really matter.
We've joked about dry powder before, but in this instance that's exactly what we had. We figured out how to combat the Irish style of play, but gave them no indication at all beforehand that we had. We kept our cards close to our chest, and unveiled a new defensive system that they had no answers for in the end.
@Chris-B had been alluding to this for a while, and I think he's right, all of our planning for the last 2 years have centered around these three games.
And despite all that, we've still won every trophy on offer this year.
I get that. You arsehole millennials
know nothing of the pre-RWC era. I understand that the RWC is considered the pinnacle, like the Olympics, but it's just wrong IMHO that going out earlier than hoped lessens the achievements of the previous 3 years (the Irish now and us from 1991-2011). On the other side, I don't feel that RWC success makes up for 3 years of dross.To each their own I guess and that win was absolutely glorious. But does it balance out the previous 3 years? Many appear to say yes and that's fair enough. I beg to differ.
And Foster is fat.
And Jordie should have been 12 long ago.
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For all the talk of the ABs legacy, the nature of the game today is that the RWC trumps all. You even get bonus ranking points during it.
Make no mistake, Ireland crashing out of the quarters has seriously undermined the legacy of that team, rightly or wrongly. They will only be remembered for crashing out in the quarters, not what they did leading up to it. Just like our 07 ABs.
So, it seems to me that our coaches have been targeting three specific games for a long time now. SA smacking us in a warm up game, as much as that sucked, will mean jack diddly squat if we win the whole thing. All of the talk will be about how great the ABs are at RWCs.
Yes we have a proud history where we have gone all out to win every single game we play. But in the professional era, with teams like France and Ireland really stepping up, it's just not possible to blow all and sundry away every time anymore. Hence the focus on winning the games that really matter.
We've joked about dry powder before, but in this instance that's exactly what we had. We figured out how to combat the Irish style of play, but gave them no indication at all beforehand that we had. We kept our cards close to our chest, and unveiled a new defensive system that they had no answers for in the end.
@Chris-B has been alluding to this for a while, and I think he's right, all of our planning for the last 2 years have centered around these three games.
And despite all that, we've still won every trophy on offer this year.
@No-Quarter said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
For all the talk of the ABs legacy, the nature of the game today is that the RWC trumps all. You even get bonus ranking points during it.
Make no mistake, Ireland crashing out of the quarters has seriously undermined the legacy of that team, rightly or wrongly. They will only be remembered for crashing out in the quarters, not what they did leading up to it. Just like our 07 ABs.
So, it seems to me that our coaches have been targeting three specific games for a long time now. SA smacking us in a warm up game, as much as that sucked, will mean jack diddly squat if we win the whole thing. All of the talk will be about how great the ABs are at RWCs.
Yes we have a proud history where we have gone all out to win every single game we play. But in the professional era, with teams like France and Ireland really stepping up, it's just not possible to blow all and sundry away every time anymore. Hence the focus on winning the games that really matter.
We've joked about dry powder before, but in this instance that's exactly what we had. We figured out how to combat the Irish style of play, but gave them no indication at all beforehand that we had. We kept our cards close to our chest, and unveiled a new defensive system that they had no answers for in the end.
@Chris-B has been alluding to this for a while, and I think he's right, all of our planning for the last 2 years have centered around these three games.
And despite all that, we've still won every trophy on offer this year.
Disagree slightly that we didn't show our cards. Vs Italy we showed exactly how we would defend. Passive D. ABs stood back and waited for the attack to come to them then striked.
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
'98, we still won tests against good sides.
Name one
@booboo said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
'98, we still won tests against good sides.
Name one
Fuck me. Took that out of context didn't ya.
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I think you're right.
And, I'm kind of hopeful that we've got our preparation spot on and - in that regard - are in the best place of anyone.
If you look at the French, they played four warm-up games - Scotland twice, Fiji and Australia - prior to playing us - and made a lot of noise about the importance of getting off to a winning start in their home RWC. Maybe they were just a tad overcooked by the time they got to the quarters - and presumably, in hindsight, would have preferred to have skipped the Scotland game that cost them Ntamack.
Ireland played a couple of warm-up games - and then had to take both of the SA and Scotland games very seriously. Group of Death draw not really doing them any favours - and remember what Graham Henry used to say about the difficulty of winning three hard tests in a row.
The Jaaps followed the same path as Ireland - and now they're going to have England - on paper a tougher assignment than Argentina.
If they make the final they'll have played Wales, NZ, Scotland, Romania, Ireland, Tonga France and England. They might be getting a bit leg weary....
By contrast, with injuries, only one warm-up game and a relatively soft pool draw, if anything we went into the Ireland game a bit under-cooked. Now we should be done to a turn - and theoretically with the weakest SF opponent.
Let's hope they are.
I want us to win comfortably, with no injuries or cards, able to run the bench early (ish), have an extra day to prepare for the final, England and SA to smash seven shades of shit out of one another, and us to run out in the Final with every preparatory advantage!!!
Go us!!!
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@booboo said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
'98, we still won tests against good sides.
Name one
Fuck me. Took that out of context didn't ya.
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@booboo said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
'98, we still won tests against good sides.
Name one
Fuck me. Took that out of context didn't ya.
My middle name
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@Chris-B Rassi emtnions how his team have individually played less minutes that Eng, He's pretty confident I think
@Machpants England played four warm-up games as well - Wales twice, Ireland and Fiji.
They've only had an easy run against Chile.
The Jaapies should have too much for them, but I don't trust those English bastards and I'm pleased it's not us who has to play them.
I don't think they'll go quietly.
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@Bovidae said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
The ABs need to attack the Arg scrum and get some easy penalties.
I think there is a real opportunity there. It certainly made a difference in the QF, not only the field position but the confidence to the pack.
