Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season
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McClutchie is unlucky but I thought he was fairly underwhelming in his time at Moana Pasifika - tough ask of course but I thought his game would translate to Super better than it has.
@KiwiMurph always hard to know if thats because MP was not the best to start with, one players cant lift a whole team
I would have taken him at the Landers, he's young and we dont have a wealth of proven depth at 10
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
Hard to claim NZ rugby is merit based when McClutchie doesn't have a Super contract. The system is broken.
you might be right
At very least having the majority of contracts sorted before the NPC is played/finished isn't helping us
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McClutchie is unlucky but I thought he was fairly underwhelming in his time at Moana Pasifika - tough ask of course but I thought his game would translate to Super better than it has.
@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
McClutchie is unlucky but I thought he was fairly underwhelming in his time at Moana Pasifika - tough ask of course but I thought his game would translate to Super better than it has.
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
Meanwhile Morgan has stunk up Super rugby and NPC.
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@KiwiMurph always hard to know if thats because MP was not the best to start with, one players cant lift a whole team
I would have taken him at the Landers, he's young and we dont have a wealth of proven depth at 10
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
Hard to claim NZ rugby is merit based when McClutchie doesn't have a Super contract. The system is broken.
you might be right
At very least having the majority of contracts sorted before the NPC is played/finished isn't helping us
@Kiwiwomble said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
I would have taken him at the Landers, he's young and we dont have a wealth of proven depth at 10
And he forms a great combo with Fakatava. These lads have been playing together for ages (since 2016).
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@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
McClutchie is unlucky but I thought he was fairly underwhelming in his time at Moana Pasifika - tough ask of course but I thought his game would translate to Super better than it has.
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
Meanwhile Morgan has stunk up Super rugby and NPC.
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
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@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
So what? Lots of young players have patchy form their first year in Super - Buckman was written off by nearly everyone in his first year in Super and became a very good Super player, and the above mentioned Morgan has been cabbage in Super yet has an ongoing contract.
There's a bunch of 10s with Super contracts in much better squads who have had patchy form in Super.
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@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
The guy he was up against was also the co-captain of the team so was always going to be picked ahead of him regardless of form.
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@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
So what? Lots of young players have patchy form their first year in Super - Buckman was written off by nearly everyone in his first year in Super and became a very good Super player, and the above mentioned Morgan has been cabbage in Super yet has an ongoing contract.
There's a bunch of 10s with Super contracts in much better squads who have had patchy form in Super.
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
So what? Lots of young players have patchy form their first year in Super - Buckman was written off by nearly everyone in his first year in Super and became a very good Super player, and the above mentioned Morgan has been cabbage in Super yet has an ongoing contract.
There's a bunch of 10s with Super contracts in much better squads who have had patchy form in Super.
He had 2 years and plenty of opportunity to win the 10 jersey and couldn't do it. Leiliafano legitimately outplayed him.
I said McClutchie was unlucky - but also that he was underwhelming compared to the promise coming in. I thought based on his form coming into Super Rugby he'd establish himself as a regular starting 10 and start to be an option for higher honours in this cycle - and he hasn't been able to do it.
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@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
The guy he was up against was also the co-captain of the team so was always going to be picked ahead of him regardless of form.
@Higgins said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
The guy he was up against was also the co-captain of the team so was always going to be picked ahead of him regardless of form.
I can't agree. If McClutchie's form was good enough he would have started - they needed to win games. Super Rugby co captains often come off of the bench.
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@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
So what? Lots of young players have patchy form their first year in Super - Buckman was written off by nearly everyone in his first year in Super and became a very good Super player, and the above mentioned Morgan has been cabbage in Super yet has an ongoing contract.
There's a bunch of 10s with Super contracts in much better squads who have had patchy form in Super.
He had 2 years and plenty of opportunity to win the 10 jersey and couldn't do it. Leiliafano legitimately outplayed him.
I said McClutchie was unlucky - but also that he was underwhelming compared to the promise coming in. I thought based on his form coming into Super Rugby he'd establish himself as a regular starting 10 and start to be an option for higher honours in this cycle - and he hasn't been able to do it.
@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
So what? Lots of young players have patchy form their first year in Super - Buckman was written off by nearly everyone in his first year in Super and became a very good Super player, and the above mentioned Morgan has been cabbage in Super yet has an ongoing contract.
There's a bunch of 10s with Super contracts in much better squads who have had patchy form in Super.
He had 2 years and plenty of opportunity to win the 10 jersey and couldn't do it. Leiliafano legitimately outplayed him.
I said McClutchie was unlucky - but also that he was underwhelming compared to the promise coming in. I thought based on his form coming into Super Rugby he'd establish himself as a regular starting 10 and start to be an option for higher honours in this cycle - and he hasn't been able to do it.
Not sure why you're making out that he has to be a starting 10. We're discussing his selection in a squad.
Each squad roughly carries three 10s, so in those squads there's a bunch of 10s not required to establish themselves as the regular starter. Why is McClutchie different? He was in a team with a bad coach, a captain who played his position and is a former test player, yet he still managed to play about 20 odd matches - that's good experience for a squad.
Surely that, with him also outplaying the majority of the 10s at NPC level means that we can advocate for him picking up one of the roughly 15 spots for 10s in Super?
It's weird, you said he was unlucky in your initial post and then with each subsequent post you're argued against anyone else making those claims. Contrarian? Provincialism? Just feel like shitfighting?
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@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
So what? Lots of young players have patchy form their first year in Super - Buckman was written off by nearly everyone in his first year in Super and became a very good Super player, and the above mentioned Morgan has been cabbage in Super yet has an ongoing contract.
There's a bunch of 10s with Super contracts in much better squads who have had patchy form in Super.
He had 2 years and plenty of opportunity to win the 10 jersey and couldn't do it. Leiliafano legitimately outplayed him.
I said McClutchie was unlucky - but also that he was underwhelming compared to the promise coming in. I thought based on his form coming into Super Rugby he'd establish himself as a regular starting 10 and start to be an option for higher honours in this cycle - and he hasn't been able to do it.
Not sure why you're making out that he has to be a starting 10. We're discussing his selection in a squad.
Each squad roughly carries three 10s, so in those squads there's a bunch of 10s not required to establish themselves as the regular starter. Why is McClutchie different? He was in a team with a bad coach, a captain who played his position and is a former test player, yet he still managed to play about 20 odd matches - that's good experience for a squad.
Surely that, with him also outplaying the majority of the 10s at NPC level means that we can advocate for him picking up one of the roughly 15 spots for 10s in Super?
It's weird, you said he was unlucky in your initial post and then with each subsequent post you're argued against anyone else making those claims. Contrarian? Provincialism? Just feel like shitfighting?
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
It's weird, you said he was unlucky in your initial post and then with each subsequent post you're argued against anyone else making those claims. Contrarian? Provincialism? Just feel like shitfighting?
I said he's unlucky (for example I agree on him vs Morgan or Cam Millar) but i also said i thought he was underwhelming based on what i thought he would be coming in.
Those aren't mutually exclusive.
I.e. I thought he'd be in the top 5 10s in the country by now but i agree he's in the top 15 10s so should be in a squad (I guess top 18 if you include Moana).
For some reason any possible critique of a Hawke's Bay player around here and people lose their minds.
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McClutchie is one of those players who clearly starts playing better when he can string games together. At MP, they've done nothing but chopping and changing the line-up all the time. His few starts were irregular and often in a weakened team due to rotation, and in most other games he came on when the game was already lost. For a player who clearly grows with confidence, that's not a great place to develop as a SR player. I agree there were a few underwhelming performances, but I think that had a lot to do with the team he played for (both in terms of coaching, starts, game time, poor team performances and, especially, the resulting pressure). I'd also like to point out that there were circumstances at MP that have lead to a lot of players not wanting to re-sign. Those circumstances, whatever they were, may have played a role as well in individual performances of players.
I'm not saying McClutchie will be guaranteed a great SR player if he gets a contract elsewhere; I've also never claimed he'll be up for higher honours (although I think he could be up there for the Māori ABs), but I'd like him to be given the chance at a good, well-coached team instead of MP, so we can actually see how far he can progress. It's insane that lesser players (in terms of talent and/or NPC experience) have contracts with NZ franchises and he hasn't.
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@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
He was only ever back up/fill in for Lilo in the worst coached team in the comp so really hard to gauge how he actually goes in Super.
He was back up because his form was patchy and he couldn't win the jersey.
So what? Lots of young players have patchy form their first year in Super - Buckman was written off by nearly everyone in his first year in Super and became a very good Super player, and the above mentioned Morgan has been cabbage in Super yet has an ongoing contract.
There's a bunch of 10s with Super contracts in much better squads who have had patchy form in Super.
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I thought Lisati Milo-Harris would end up somewhere. Also thought with the shortage of locks Sam Caird and Liam Hallam-Eames might have had a look in somewhere
@Chiefy07 said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
I thought Lisati Milo-Harris would end up somewhere. Also thought with the shortage of locks Sam Caird and Liam Hallam-Eames might have had a look in somewhere
What has happened to LMH? He seems to have disappeared into NPC obscurity
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Owen Franks is with Toulouse
Blair Murray and Adam Lennox looked good in NPC and misses out but both are in their franchises WTG
Thought props Sione Mafileo and Jarrod Adams might have been picked up somewhere@Kiwidom said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
Owen Franks is with Toulouse
Blair Murray and Adam Lennox looked good in NPC and misses out but both are in their franchises WTG
Thought props Sione Mafileo and Jarrod Adams might have been picked up somewhereOwen Franks' contract with Toulouse was just running for a few weeks. He'll be back in NZ very soon.
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@Chiefy07 said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
I thought Lisati Milo-Harris would end up somewhere. Also thought with the shortage of locks Sam Caird and Liam Hallam-Eames might have had a look in somewhere
What has happened to LMH? He seems to have disappeared into NPC obscurity
@Auckman he was very good for us this year when Nock was injured for half the season.
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@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
Morgan has been cabbage in Super yet has an ongoing contract.
He's been better than McClutchie so you're not exactly pushing Lincoln's case here.
@Bones said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
Morgan has been cabbage in Super yet has an ongoing contract.
He's been better than McClutchie so you're not exactly pushing Lincoln's case here.
You're not pushing your case you that you actually watch rugby. Even @Canes4life has changed his tune on Morgan v McClutchie.
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@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
It's weird, you said he was unlucky in your initial post and then with each subsequent post you're argued against anyone else making those claims. Contrarian? Provincialism? Just feel like shitfighting?
I said he's unlucky (for example I agree on him vs Morgan or Cam Millar) but i also said i thought he was underwhelming based on what i thought he would be coming in.
Those aren't mutually exclusive.
I.e. I thought he'd be in the top 5 10s in the country by now but i agree he's in the top 15 10s so should be in a squad (I guess top 18 if you include Moana).
For some reason any possible critique of a Hawke's Bay player around here and people lose their minds.
@KiwiMurph said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
@Nepia said in Unlucky : players not picked for the 2024 SR season:
It's weird, you said he was unlucky in your initial post and then with each subsequent post you're argued against anyone else making those claims. Contrarian? Provincialism? Just feel like shitfighting?
I said he's unlucky (for example I agree on him vs Morgan or Cam Millar) but i also said i thought he was underwhelming based on what i thought he would be coming in.
Those aren't mutually exclusive.
I.e. I thought he'd be in the top 5 10s in the country by now but i agree he's in the top 15 10s so should be in a squad (I guess top 18 if you include Moana).
For some reason any possible critique of a Hawke's Bay player around here and people lose their minds.
No one's losing their minds, or caring about critiquing Magpies players, we happily do it ourselves and sometimes when we do that fans from other provinces lose their minds if we don't praise some of them fast enough when they finally have a good game ...
We appear to be in agreement on the base and we're just arguing on the margins, you want him to be good enough to be a starter, I think he's a squadie and that's where the issue with his non selection is.
