Aussie Community Rugby
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a small insight into rugby in Vic
below is a snip of the 8 Dewar Shield teams in melbourne (yellow pins).....historically the final is held at one of the clubs, not necessarily one in the final as not all can host a full day with several finals across different grades but Harlequins, Box hill and last year Endeavour have all hosted, they have good club rooms
rumour the final will be held at the new Vic Rugby Training facility at La Trobe uni (Red Pin)...bloody miles! from any of the clubs that might make it and their fans
Hell, Endeavour might be further away but theyre just off a freeway and have loads of people help out around the club making a great environment
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lost our prelim final....ahead at 80mins and then the ref decides who should win and proceeded to penilise us 6-7 times in a row including 2 yellows...marched them to our 5m where they were able to tap and drive over (kicker was spent so thats all they had left)....so pissed off, i got told off for saying the ref was a cheat in the club group chat (spur of the moment frustration), apparently the ref is a partner if one of our club members...just a shit afternoon in the end....we'd also made plans to go out and so had to leave right at full time so felt as if i was abandoning the team...wife told me i had to shake it off and not bore the aussies were were going to dinner with rugby talk
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@NTA yeah, it had been close and we'd only got back in front with 5 to go...it was just the ref suddenly started see loads of things she hasn't bothered with earlier...and then getting called out and ya feel embarrassed for an outburst when was already feeling shit...oh well, 3's still have a final next week
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Qld Suburban is basically dead. A few clubs hanging on, playing Friday nights against each other or Premier Club 6th grades.
That said, the Premier scene there always appeared much larger than Subbies e.g. 5 men's grades + a couple of colts in Prem versus 1 or 2 grades
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Qld Suburban is basically dead. A few clubs hanging on, playing Friday nights against each other or Premier Club 6th grades.
That said, the Premier scene there always appeared much larger than Subbies e.g. 5 men's grades + a couple of colts in Prem versus 1 or 2 grades
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
Qld Suburban is basically dead. A few clubs hanging on, playing Friday nights against each other or Premier Club 6th grades.
That said, the Premier scene there always appeared much larger than Subbies e.g. 5 men's grades + a couple of colts in Prem versus 1 or 2 grades
Yeah the premier comp has a very good geographical spread (or at least had before the city grew like weed since the early 2000s) and made subbies a bit shit. I played a season for QUT, which didn't make much sense because Norths was across the road. Same with Kenmore vs Wests. But as far as I can see there is almost zero presence in new developments towards Ipswich and the west which are dominated by league.
When my boys were playing from about 2014-2019, club union seemed very strong up to about U13s, but the GPS strangulation meant that many kids then played for their schools and those without scholarships or loaded parents were left out. Stoopid situation.
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby:
Qld Suburban is basically dead. A few clubs hanging on, playing Friday nights against each other or Premier Club 6th grades.
That said, the Premier scene there always appeared much larger than Subbies e.g. 5 men's grades + a couple of colts in Prem versus 1 or 2 grades
Yeah the premier comp has a very good geographical spread (or at least had before the city grew like weed since the early 2000s) and made subbies a bit shit. I played a season for QUT, which didn't make much sense because Norths was across the road. Same with Kenmore vs Wests. But as far as I can see there is almost zero presence in new developments towards Ipswich and the west which are dominated by league.
When my boys were playing from about 2014-2019, club union seemed very strong up to about U13s, but the GPS strangulation meant that many kids then played for their schools and those without scholarships or loaded parents were left out. Stoopid situation.
@Rancid-Schnitzel same down here - junior clubs things are generally ok until about U15s and then schools fuck it up.
Connection to seniors is generally lost unless you're good enough to play Prem Colts. Most kids don't even know there is a Subbies club in the neighbourhood, and there are nearly 50 Subbies clubs across Sydney compared to 10 Prem clubs.
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If they go back to three teams, will rugby die in Perth and Melbourne? How many homegrown players have those regions produced? I understand that a lot of expats play in Perth and the Melbourne club scene has a high percentage of Polynesian players.
Could an improved NRC based more on club lines help build the base of the pyramid and be played at the same time as Super? What would a rugby version of the league system look like?
Their is a two tiered club system isn't there? Those Shute shield teams are like pro clubs aren't they? More players in a club in Sydney than premier players in Southland, NZ?
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If they go back to three teams, will rugby die in Perth and Melbourne? How many homegrown players have those regions produced? I understand that a lot of expats play in Perth and the Melbourne club scene has a high percentage of Polynesian players.
Could an improved NRC based more on club lines help build the base of the pyramid and be played at the same time as Super? What would a rugby version of the league system look like?
Their is a two tiered club system isn't there? Those Shute shield teams are like pro clubs aren't they? More players in a club in Sydney than premier players in Southland, NZ?
@mikedogz said in Aussie Rugby:
If they go back to three teams, will rugby die in Perth and Melbourne?
It wont die, the Dewar Shield has been around for over 114 years, yes there are alot of expat (NZ, PI and Irish) knocking around the club scene in melbourne but there always has been, we currently have very little connection with the rebels, mainly our coaches coaching the various age grade teams
the interesting and damning thing for me...there is currently a state rep team tour going on (we have three guys in the squad)
These have nothing to do with the super teams....not a complicated structure at all!
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Would a ten team Aussie only comp be a better TV product for Aussie TV audiences? The top two/four could play qualify for a separate international comp. It seems weird that Sydney/NSW has one pro rugby team when other sports have 2 or 3 and the NRL has 9 in Sydney alone.
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Would a ten team Aussie only comp be a better TV product for Aussie TV audiences? The top two/four could play qualify for a separate international comp. It seems weird that Sydney/NSW has one pro rugby team when other sports have 2 or 3 and the NRL has 9 in Sydney alone.
@mikedogz said in Aussie Rugby:
Would a ten team Aussie only comp be a better TV product for Aussie TV audiences? The top two/four could play qualify for a separate international comp. It seems weird that Sydney/NSW has one pro rugby team when other sports have 2 or 3 and the NRL has 9 in Sydney alone.
It might be a better comp in some ways - could be competitive and entertaining within itself. But would have to deal with all the same issues of the old ARC.
Reckon it would work well for Melbourne, for example - if we no longer had a Super Rugby team, but had a Rebels team playing in a decent national comp, that would serve as a focus for the rugby community and a pathway for Victorian players.
Don't think it would sit so well in Sydney and Qld though. Too incompatible with the established comps and traditional set-up.
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@mikedogz said in Aussie Rugby:
If they go back to three teams, will rugby die in Perth and Melbourne?
It wont die, the Dewar Shield has been around for over 114 years, yes there are alot of expat (NZ, PI and Irish) knocking around the club scene in melbourne but there always has been, we currently have very little connection with the rebels, mainly our coaches coaching the various age grade teams
the interesting and damning thing for me...there is currently a state rep team tour going on (we have three guys in the squad)
These have nothing to do with the super teams....not a complicated structure at all!
@Kiwiwomble which club are you with?
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@GibbonRib Power House
:large_green_circle: 
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@Dan54 said in Aussie Rugby:
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@mariner4life I get their argument about three SR sides raises the level for players due to competition and that helps the Wallabies.
The problem is I don't think that helps widen the base long term.
Understand that too, but does 5 teams with a number of overseas players widen the base?
It exposes more players to professionalism.
Both NZ and Oz need to stop looking at SR through the misty eyes of youthful recollection and acknowledge that it isn't the Super 12. It's a different competition now.
I've outlined before what I think it the solution and that requires bold, innovative action, wholesale buy-in from stakeholders including broadcasters.
There's no requirement for a third level of professional rugby at this stage, either in NZ or Oz. We need to develop a competition that straddles what was SR and the desired level below (NPC, defunct NRC etc.) Grow and develop that.
There's already Shute Shield/ Premier rugby with district/ country rugby and Subbies under that. Another layer isn't going to help, it just needs alignment.
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
It exposes more players to professionalism.
And coaches, hopefully...
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@mikedogz said in Aussie Rugby:
Would a ten team Aussie only comp be a better TV product for Aussie TV audiences? The top two/four could play qualify for a separate international comp. It seems weird that Sydney/NSW has one pro rugby team when other sports have 2 or 3 and the NRL has 9 in Sydney alone.
It might be a better comp in some ways - could be competitive and entertaining within itself. But would have to deal with all the same issues of the old ARC.
Reckon it would work well for Melbourne, for example - if we no longer had a Super Rugby team, but had a Rebels team playing in a decent national comp, that would serve as a focus for the rugby community and a pathway for Victorian players.
Don't think it would sit so well in Sydney and Qld though. Too incompatible with the established comps and traditional set-up.
@GibbonRib said in Aussie Rugby:
Don't think it would sit so well in Sydney and Qld though. Too incompatible with the established comps and traditional set-up.
In terms of Sydney: there are a few clubs who would gladly knife the rest if they could make a quick buck from a national comp.
The Premier Rugby competition (sometimes referred to as Shute Shield but that is just First Grade) consists of (currently) 11 clubs with 4 Senior Grades and 3 Colts Grades each... well in theory.
Randwick, Eastwood, Sydney Uni, Gordon, and Eastern Suburbs have enough players for probably 5 Senior Grades and 4 Colts sides. Maybe more. They warehouse a lot of guys so they can take rego money off them every year. Easy money from idiots who are happy to get a pair of shorts and socks, and sit on the bench for 10 minutes every other week.
Northern Suburbs, Manly, and Warringah probably sit in the next tranche, with Norths in particular having issues fielding all 3 Colts sides this year. Warringah's Colts were good, but Grade were duds in 2023.
Hunter Wildfires (based in Newcastle) are only in the comp as a rescue mission* and only field 2 Grades + 1 Colts - they might not be there next year, because the Newcastle comp is also suffering and they can't get the numbers, and the travel is a bit of an issue.
*Penrith were slowly imploding but they wanted 12 clubs, so Hunter stepped in. Then Penrith left to go play in Canberra, where they also got smaaaaaaaaashed
West Harbour and Southern Districts fielded all their teams but mostly got whipped.
Two Blues could only field 3 Grades + 2 Colts (struggled to do that) and their results were ordinary. First Grade finished mid table (9W, 9L), Second Grade bottom 4 (7W, 11L), and Thirds stone cold last (1W from 17). Their Colts failed to win a single game between them. I'm shocked they haven't fallen over.
So, with the top 4-5 clubs in Sydney, and 3-4 from Brisbane, and one each from Canberra and Melbourne, you could create a decent competition BUT funding it is the issue.
Besides bus trips between Sydney and Canberra, everything else is a flight. If you want to include Perth, it is an expensive flight.
We don't exactly have billionaires lying around to fund this (besides Twiggy) so it'll need some creative thinking to work.
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Just caught up with a friend who has been living in Sydney for the last 20 years
He played club here in Auckland but also a bit of club in Sydney
He was telling me how ignorant many sectors of the NZ Media have become
This notion that rugby in Australia is load of crap in his words..
Club games in Sydney can pull up to 5-7k especially if the top sides are playing
The Shutte Shield is very popular
They have an U16 and 18 comps which are both strong with all clubs fielding teams
The real missing piece they have is quality coaching
They have some very good athletes but poor coaching always a challenge with league being so strong in a city of 5m ..
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
Great to get that feedback
Although he did say ,he thought Oz had one too many super teams in his opinion he would cut Melbourne
Its just not a rugby town
But Perth has a big rugby community and a lot of ex pats NZ’s and Africans -
Just caught up with a friend who has been living in Sydney for the last 20 years
He played club here in Auckland but also a bit of club in Sydney
He was telling me how ignorant many sectors of the NZ Media have become
This notion that rugby in Australia is load of crap in his words..
Club games in Sydney can pull up to 5-7k especially if the top sides are playing
The Shutte Shield is very popular
They have an U16 and 18 comps which are both strong with all clubs fielding teams
The real missing piece they have is quality coaching
They have some very good athletes but poor coaching always a challenge with league being so strong in a city of 5m ..
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
Great to get that feedback
Although he did say ,he thought Oz had one too many super teams in his opinion he would cut Melbourne
Its just not a rugby town
But Perth has a big rugby community and a lot of ex pats NZ’s and Africans@Steven-Harris said in Aussie Rugby:
Club games in Sydney can pull up to 5-7k especially if the top sides are playing
The Shutte Shield is very popularcan pull thousands. The derbies like Warringah v Manly are very popular. The average would be more like hundreds.
The Shute Shield is popular with itself. They've adopted the Brumbies siege/victim mentality against everyone else, and like to spruik how their clubs are so awesome but also "grassroots".
And then they recruit a hundred kids to play for their three U20 teams and a lot of them get minimal game time. Literally there to help pay the bills. They've got tribalism within their own sphere, but don't have the kind of capture across Sydney they'd like to think.
They could address this if they'd align themselves with Subbies clubs - Eastwood are about to move in close to us. We'd be happy to give their excess U20 players a season with us in order to get minutes and perhaps progress their game.
The fluffybunnies don't even speak to us except to ask if they can borrow our ground. Get fucked.
They have an U16 and 18 comps which are both strong with all clubs fielding teams
I'm not sure that is actually correct. There are rep programs aligned with the Premier Rugby (Shute Shield) clubs but they aren't a weekly proposition. Some Premier clubs in the eastern suburbs have no juniors at all.
A lot of Junior clubs who spend time and effort putting these kids on the park every weekend are supplying the bodies, then get fucked over when schools tell them their kids can't play club any more.
The real missing piece they have is quality coaching
Absolutely this is an issue. It is created by the fact that our competitions are disjointed and tiny (and not well administered). This means you can be a good coach in a small pond when your talent is good.
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
Remains to be seen - the money still isn't there to support them and keep them out of league's clutches. League can capture hundreds of kids to feed the beast because the payoff is superior to rugby in percentage terms.
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Just caught up with a friend who has been living in Sydney for the last 20 years
He played club here in Auckland but also a bit of club in Sydney
He was telling me how ignorant many sectors of the NZ Media have become
This notion that rugby in Australia is load of crap in his words..
Club games in Sydney can pull up to 5-7k especially if the top sides are playing
The Shutte Shield is very popular
They have an U16 and 18 comps which are both strong with all clubs fielding teams
The real missing piece they have is quality coaching
They have some very good athletes but poor coaching always a challenge with league being so strong in a city of 5m ..
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
Great to get that feedback
Although he did say ,he thought Oz had one too many super teams in his opinion he would cut Melbourne
Its just not a rugby town
But Perth has a big rugby community and a lot of ex pats NZ’s and Africans@Steven-Harris said in Aussie Rugby:
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
This and the Oz U18 vs NZ Schools were on last weekend at my local. I went for a ride because I didn't know it was on. That's how good the messaging out of RA is.
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@Steven-Harris said in Aussie Rugby:
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
This and the Oz U18 vs NZ Schools were on last weekend at my local. I went for a ride because I didn't know it was on. That's how good the messaging out of RA is.
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby:
@Steven-Harris said in Aussie Rugby:
One thing he did say that was a positive was ,a Super Rugby U16 and U19 comp has started which will create a pathway for kids that normally would head down the League path
This and the Oz U18 vs NZ Schools were on last weekend at my local. I went for a ride because I didn't know it was on. That's how good the messaging out of RA is.
"WHY AREN'T PEOPLE SUPPORTING THE GREAT GAME?!!" they cry.
Well, because unless you're a parent of one of the players, you wouldn't know anything about that shit.
Seriously guys, spend $200 on social media advertising targeted to Canberra for a 2-day blitz and you'd get attendance.
I hear the catering was shit as well.
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Oh, and if you want an illustration of how fucked rugby is in Australia, and why it's actually going to die
I registered my 12 year old son for his 2 month season up here. $90
That came with a breakdown.
$5 went to his club
Much much more was the QRU and ARU levy. 12 year olds are paying to prop up elite rugby, not the other way around.Compare that to league and AFL and wonder where kids are going to play
