Crystal Glass XV
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@Bovidae said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Crystal Glass XV:
Going back a long way but Jason Goldsmith was the youngest AB I believe and then disappeared due to savage injury.
He played for Waikato while still at school. I remember watching Goldsmith star in Waikato's win against the 1988 Welsh team. He was in the ABs later that year at 18. Retired at 24 due to injuries.
I actually saw him play at Ballymore in 1988. Was a bit pissed off because I wanted John Kirwan's autograph and he was playing on the right wing so on opposite side of where I was.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Bovidae said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Crystal Glass XV:
Going back a long way but Jason Goldsmith was the youngest AB I believe and then disappeared due to savage injury.
He played for Waikato while still at school. I remember watching Goldsmith star in Waikato's win against the 1988 Welsh team. He was in the ABs later that year at 18. Retired at 24 due to injuries.
I actually saw him play at Ballymore in 1988. Was a bit pissed off because I wanted John Kirwan's autograph and he was playing on the right wing so on opposite side of where I was.
Should have hung around for the second half...
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@Duluth said in Crystal Glass XV:
If you include foreigners - Manu Tuilagi
A lot of midfielders mentioned
He has PI heritage, you're bound to poach him anyway :winking_face:
But yeah, for sure, he is the epitome of a Crystal Glass player. His International career lasted for almost 14 years and during that time would have been an automatic pick but amassed "only" 60 caps. Without doubt he would now have been England's record cap holder and maybe even have surpassed Alun-Wyn's record.
Injured more than fit.
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@Duluth said in Crystal Glass XV:
If you include foreigners - Manu Tuilagi
A lot of midfielders mentioned
He has PI heritage, you're bound to poach him anyway :winking_face:
But yeah, for sure, he is the epitome of a Crystal Glass player. His International career lasted for almost 14 years and during that time would have been an automatic pick but amassed "only" 60 caps. Without doubt he would now have been England's record cap holder and maybe even have surpassed Alun-Wyn's record.
Injured more than fit.
@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Duluth said in Crystal Glass XV:
If you include foreigners - Manu Tuilagi
A lot of midfielders mentioned
He has PI heritage, you're bound to poach him anyway :winking_face:
But yeah, for sure, he is the epitome of a Crystal Glass player. His International career lasted for almost 14 years and during that time would have been an automatic pick but amassed "only" 60 caps. Without doubt he would now have been England's record cap holder and maybe even have surpassed Alun-Wyn's record.
Injured more than fit.
Would we fast track his citizenship after finding out he was an illegal overstayer? And would WR let us get away with it?
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@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Duluth said in Crystal Glass XV:
If you include foreigners - Manu Tuilagi
A lot of midfielders mentioned
He has PI heritage, you're bound to poach him anyway :winking_face:
But yeah, for sure, he is the epitome of a Crystal Glass player. His International career lasted for almost 14 years and during that time would have been an automatic pick but amassed "only" 60 caps. Without doubt he would now have been England's record cap holder and maybe even have surpassed Alun-Wyn's record.
Injured more than fit.
Would we fast track his citizenship after finding out he was an illegal overstayer? And would WR let us get away with it?
Well, we’re unlikely to know, but my guess is probably yes and almost definitely yes. Although in truth there was little that WR could do even if they wanted to. Tuilagi qualified hands down. The citizenship and overstaying was not within their remit.
Edit: From what I can gather, once the problem was realised, the correct channels were followed and he was granted “indefinite leave to remain” by the UK Government. It was Leicester Tigers that started the ball rolling on this one and they lobbied local politicians and the RFU to assist their case. Not an RFU initiative.
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@MN5 said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Nepia said in Crystal Glass XV:
@MN5 said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Nepia said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
That lock from Waikato, Keith Robinson. Had a tough guy rep but was always hurt
In for a shot as one of the most overrated players in NZ rugby too. Always hailed as a saviour, never really delivered.
Jesus Neps. He did the business really well on the pitch if memory serves.
At least that’s what Bart and Red Beard always said on here.
If him and Troy Flavell had stayed fit/away from the judiciary I think NZ might have had the most feared forward pack of that era.
I took a calculated risk of RB not being around here anymore and Bart starting threads and then disappearing again so I took my shot - and I stand by it.
He did actually play well and had presence when he actually made it on the park didn’t he ?
Not like those show ponies Ali Williams and Chris Jack
Apparently it was a huge effort just to come back from that back injury he suffered. Recall him being pretty damn good before that injury.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Crystal Glass XV:
@MN5 said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Nepia said in Crystal Glass XV:
@MN5 said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Nepia said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
That lock from Waikato, Keith Robinson. Had a tough guy rep but was always hurt
In for a shot as one of the most overrated players in NZ rugby too. Always hailed as a saviour, never really delivered.
Jesus Neps. He did the business really well on the pitch if memory serves.
At least that’s what Bart and Red Beard always said on here.
If him and Troy Flavell had stayed fit/away from the judiciary I think NZ might have had the most feared forward pack of that era.
I took a calculated risk of RB not being around here anymore and Bart starting threads and then disappearing again so I took my shot - and I stand by it.
He did actually play well and had presence when he actually made it on the park didn’t he ?
Not like those show ponies Ali Williams and Chris Jack
Apparently it was a huge effort just to come back from that back injury he suffered. Recall him being pretty damn good before that injury.
He was bloody good. And so were Williams and Jack.
Flavell… not so much. All hat, no cowboy. It’s fine to be half as hard as you think you are (see Williams, A. above), it’s fine to mask it by being dirty, but what’s no use is being an ineffective cheapshot merchant who makes an art of hiding from the other team’s hardmen.
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Well, we’re unlikely to know, but my guess is probably yes and almost definitely yes. Although in truth there was little that WR could do even if they wanted to. Tuilagi qualified hands down. The citizenship and overstaying was not within their remit.
Edit: From what I can gather, once the problem was realised, the correct channels were followed and he was granted “indefinite leave to remain” by the UK Government. It was Leicester Tigers that started the ball rolling on this one and they lobbied local politicians and the RFU to assist their case. Not an RFU initiative.
@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
Well, we’re unlikely to know, but my guess is probably yes and almost definitely yes. Although in truth there was little that WR could do even if they wanted to. Tuilagi qualified hands down. The citizenship and overstaying was not within their remit.
Edit: From what I can gather, once the problem was realised, the correct channels were followed and he was granted “indefinite leave to remain” by the UK Government. It was Leicester Tigers that started the ball rolling on this one and they lobbied local politicians and the RFU to assist their case. Not an RFU initiative.
You sure about that? Ever heard of the dawn raids?
And you think so? We tried with Naholo who was living with family in NZ (legally), but not his parents same as Manu, and were denied.
Also, I'm not saying he should never have been available for England, but WR should have imposed the stand down after his schooling was completed which happened to other players.
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Neemia Tialata's jaw
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Not sure they've been mentioned yet but Taniela Tupou and Jordie Petaia would be two that fit the (food)bill
@KiwiMurph said in Crystal Glass XV:
Not sure they've been mentioned yet but Taniela Tupou and Jordie Petaia would be two that fit the (food)bill
And let’s not forget Matt Rogers or better known as Medicare Matt because he was frequently injured.
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Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
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@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
@Bones said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
May as well include everyone who’s played for the ABs who’s not called Sean Fitzpatrick.
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@Bones said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
May as well include everyone who’s played for the ABs who’s not called Sean Fitzpatrick.
@MN5 said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Bones said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
May as well include everyone who’s played for the ABs who’s not called Sean Fitzpatrick.
"Players what got injuried"
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@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
@Bones said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
I can't even remember the poor guy's name. Is he back for the Chiefs yet?
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@Bones said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
I can't even remember the poor guy's name. Is he back for the Chiefs yet?
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Bones said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
I can't even remember the poor guy's name. Is he back for the Chiefs yet?
I think you've misunderstood the thread
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@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
Well, we’re unlikely to know, but my guess is probably yes and almost definitely yes. Although in truth there was little that WR could do even if they wanted to. Tuilagi qualified hands down. The citizenship and overstaying was not within their remit.
Edit: From what I can gather, once the problem was realised, the correct channels were followed and he was granted “indefinite leave to remain” by the UK Government. It was Leicester Tigers that started the ball rolling on this one and they lobbied local politicians and the RFU to assist their case. Not an RFU initiative.
You sure about that? Ever heard of the dawn raids?
And you think so? We tried with Naholo who was living with family in NZ (legally), but not his parents same as Manu, and were denied.
Also, I'm not saying he should never have been available for England, but WR should have imposed the stand down after his schooling was completed which happened to other players.
@Nepia said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
Well, we’re unlikely to know, but my guess is probably yes and almost definitely yes. Although in truth there was little that WR could do even if they wanted to. Tuilagi qualified hands down. The citizenship and overstaying was not within their remit.
Edit: From what I can gather, once the problem was realised, the correct channels were followed and he was granted “indefinite leave to remain” by the UK Government. It was Leicester Tigers that started the ball rolling on this one and they lobbied local politicians and the RFU to assist their case. Not an RFU initiative.
OK, let's first dial it back a bit and remember that my initial comment about poaching was clearly tongue in cheek, OK?
You sure about that? Ever heard of the dawn raids?
Nope, but would be pleased to be enlightened. Genuinely.
And you think so? We tried with Naholo who was living with family in NZ (legally), but not his parents same as Manu, and were denied.
So you tried? I'd say that my suggestion that you (NZ rugby) "probably would" is borne out by this only with the Government/immigration denying the opportunity.
Also, I'm not saying he should never have been available for England, but WR should have imposed the stand down after his schooling was completed which happened to other players.
Here you may have a point but it would need comparison with others. During his post schooling he did qualify win residential grounds, having worked and paid taxes in the UK would be a counter point. But murky for sure.
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@Bones said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
I can't even remember the poor guy's name. Is he back for the Chiefs yet?
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Bones said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
I can't even remember the poor guy's name. Is he back for the Chiefs yet?
Quinn Tupaea.
Yes.
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@Nepia said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
Well, we’re unlikely to know, but my guess is probably yes and almost definitely yes. Although in truth there was little that WR could do even if they wanted to. Tuilagi qualified hands down. The citizenship and overstaying was not within their remit.
Edit: From what I can gather, once the problem was realised, the correct channels were followed and he was granted “indefinite leave to remain” by the UK Government. It was Leicester Tigers that started the ball rolling on this one and they lobbied local politicians and the RFU to assist their case. Not an RFU initiative.
OK, let's first dial it back a bit and remember that my initial comment about poaching was clearly tongue in cheek, OK?
You sure about that? Ever heard of the dawn raids?
Nope, but would be pleased to be enlightened. Genuinely.
And you think so? We tried with Naholo who was living with family in NZ (legally), but not his parents same as Manu, and were denied.
So you tried? I'd say that my suggestion that you (NZ rugby) "probably would" is borne out by this only with the Government/immigration denying the opportunity.
Also, I'm not saying he should never have been available for England, but WR should have imposed the stand down after his schooling was completed which happened to other players.
Here you may have a point but it would need comparison with others. During his post schooling he did qualify win residential grounds, having worked and paid taxes in the UK would be a counter point. But murky for sure.
@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Nepia said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
Well, we’re unlikely to know, but my guess is probably yes and almost definitely yes. Although in truth there was little that WR could do even if they wanted to. Tuilagi qualified hands down. The citizenship and overstaying was not within their remit.
Edit: From what I can gather, once the problem was realised, the correct channels were followed and he was granted “indefinite leave to remain” by the UK Government. It was Leicester Tigers that started the ball rolling on this one and they lobbied local politicians and the RFU to assist their case. Not an RFU initiative.
OK, let's first dial it back a bit and remember that my initial comment about poaching was clearly tongue in cheek, OK?
You sure about that? Ever heard of the dawn raids?
Nope, but would be pleased to be enlightened. Genuinely.
And you think so? We tried with Naholo who was living with family in NZ (legally), but not his parents same as Manu, and were denied.
So you tried? I'd say that my suggestion that you (NZ rugby) "probably would" is borne out by this only with the Government/immigration denying the opportunity.
Also, I'm not saying he should never have been available for England, but WR should have imposed the stand down after his schooling was completed which happened to other players.
Here you may have a point but it would need comparison with others. During his post schooling he did qualify win residential grounds, having worked and paid taxes in the UK would be a counter point. But murky for sure.
I will use any opportunity to have a shot at the overstayer, England, English rugby and WR, even tongue and cheeks posts.
Dawn raids were when PI overstayers were raided by Police and immigration, often at dawn, despite the fact the majority of our overstayers tended to be of a white complexion.
For clarity NZ rugby applied to have Naholo's schooling counted, like the overstayer, but were turned down by WR - nothing to do with NZ govt/immigration.
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@MN5 said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Bones said in Crystal Glass XV:
@canefan said in Crystal Glass XV:
Don't forget that midfielder from Waikato who makes the list because of an act of filth from an Aussie scumbag
One injury which you come back from makes you eligible for the glass XV?
May as well include everyone who’s played for the ABs who’s not called Sean Fitzpatrick.
"Players what got injuried"
@Bones said in Crystal Glass XV:
"Players what got injuried"
If Sean Fitzpatrick ran hard at a brick wall, the wall would be out for much of the season
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@Nepia said in Crystal Glass XV:
@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
Well, we’re unlikely to know, but my guess is probably yes and almost definitely yes. Although in truth there was little that WR could do even if they wanted to. Tuilagi qualified hands down. The citizenship and overstaying was not within their remit.
Edit: From what I can gather, once the problem was realised, the correct channels were followed and he was granted “indefinite leave to remain” by the UK Government. It was Leicester Tigers that started the ball rolling on this one and they lobbied local politicians and the RFU to assist their case. Not an RFU initiative.
OK, let's first dial it back a bit and remember that my initial comment about poaching was clearly tongue in cheek, OK?
You sure about that? Ever heard of the dawn raids?
Nope, but would be pleased to be enlightened. Genuinely.
And you think so? We tried with Naholo who was living with family in NZ (legally), but not his parents same as Manu, and were denied.
So you tried? I'd say that my suggestion that you (NZ rugby) "probably would" is borne out by this only with the Government/immigration denying the opportunity.
Also, I'm not saying he should never have been available for England, but WR should have imposed the stand down after his schooling was completed which happened to other players.
Here you may have a point but it would need comparison with others. During his post schooling he did qualify win residential grounds, having worked and paid taxes in the UK would be a counter point. But murky for sure.
@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
During his post schooling he did qualify win residential grounds, having worked and paid taxes in the UK would be a counter point.
Actually, Kiwis or Aussies, having been in pretty much the same position as Tuilagi (paid taxes and been legally in the country for 4+ years) were generally refused "Indefinite Leave to Remain" - me included.
Pretty clear cut being a promising England rugby player was a key reason he was given his stamp.
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@Catogrande said in Crystal Glass XV:
During his post schooling he did qualify win residential grounds, having worked and paid taxes in the UK would be a counter point.
Actually, Kiwis or Aussies, having been in pretty much the same position as Tuilagi (paid taxes and been legally in the country for 4+ years) were generally refused "Indefinite Leave to Remain" - me included.
Pretty clear cut being a promising England rugby player was a key reason he was given his stamp.
@Victor-Meldrew it was on the list of shortages.
