Super Rugby - The Future
-
additional teams does introduce an interesting discussion, do we think they will be tapping into a "new" fan base, people that might follow NPC teams but dont bother with super rugby to any great extent becasue they dont have a local team...how many of those people are there? or are they looking to attract fans that currently support someone else, how do you go about convincing someone to change who they support? super rugby obviously had the fact all the teams were new, everyone started with a clean slate for this comp
-
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Chris said in NZR review:
NZ then will need another SR team to sustain the depth in mo.
There should be a few more IMO
i think how little this gets talked about is what makes me hold on too the NPC, if every time they talked about winding the NPC down too a amateur rep team/comp they also talked about ramping up the Super Rugby saturation with another couple of teams i would be more on board....im just worried we're going to lose the NPC (im not sure i will regain much meaning)...but just have the same 5 super teams...and it will be just a bit boring
If we could stretch it to 7/8 teams. Work out what can be done to support Australia. May be open up eligibility of our players over there. Get a Japanese team, Argentina, get MP based in the Pacific we could have a decent competition. Especially if the sponsorship money from the NPC gets re-directed to our Super sides. We have teams in North/ Harbour/Northland, Waikato, Taupo, Wellington, Canterbury and Otago. Decent split
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@Duluth said in NZR review:
@Chris said in NZR review:
NZ then will need another SR team to sustain the depth in mo.
There should be a few more IMO
i think how little this gets talked about is what makes me hold on too the NPC, if every time they talked about winding the NPC down too a amateur rep team/comp they also talked about ramping up the Super Rugby saturation with another couple of teams i would be more on board....im just worried we're going to lose the NPC (im not sure i will regain much meaning)...but just have the same 5 super teams...and it will be just a bit boring
If we could stretch it to 7/8 teams. Work out what can be done to support Australia. May be open up eligibility of our players over there. Get a Japanese team, Argentina, get MP based in the Pacific we could have a decent competition. Especially if the sponsorship money from the NPC gets re-directed to our Super sides. We have teams in North/ Harbour/Northland, Waikato, Taupo, Wellington, Canterbury and Otago. Decent split
I hope you are actually stirring with the Taupo comment, and I like it, but Tauranga should be inline to get a team.
By population, it would roughly be, if 8 teams plus MP (representing South Auckland):
North Auckland, Auckland (Blues), Hamilton (Chiefs), Tauranga, Hawkes / Vikings, Wellington (Hurricanes), Christchurch (Saders), Dunedin (Landers)
If we added another, I would say a straight shoot out between Nelson and New Plymouth.
Edit: Arguably, the places where a super team could more easily take off would be the places where they don't really represent the region, so splitting the Chiefs into 3, and Hurricanes into at least two feels easiest.
The North Auckland / Ta$man ones I'm not so sure.
-
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
of Plenty
Slap in half-way inbetween and give the team the Taupo. That way the Bay's can have split ownership.
King Country leaps from Heartland to Super, I love it.
It would be beautiful to see the meltdown.
@gt12 said in NZR review:
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
of Plenty
Slap in half-way inbetween and give the team the Taupo. That way the Bay's can have split ownership.
King Country leaps from Heartland to Super, I love it.
It would be beautiful to see the meltdown.
It just so happens that the lights at Owen Delany Park are currently being upgraded...
-
@Chris said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
as it should. make it a rep comp for club players. it will have genuine meaning again
Well it has to otherwise it is unsustainable to have so many pro teams in NZ.
NZ then will need another SR team to sustain the depth in mo.I can't see them winding up super rugby.
So, it seems pretty clear that Duluth's idea is the best here, make the NPC an amateur competition and split the Super sides roughly down the middle (Southland isn't getting one) so there are about 8-10 of them.
@gt12 said in NZR review:
@Chris said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
as it should. make it a rep comp for club players. it will have genuine meaning again
Well it has to otherwise it is unsustainable to have so many pro teams in NZ.
NZ then will need another SR team to sustain the depth in mo.I can't see them winding up super rugby.
So, it seems pretty clear that Duluth's idea is the best here, make the NPC an amateur competition and split the Super sides roughly down the middle (Southland isn't getting one) so there are about 8-10 of them.
I doubt if NZ can afford more than 5 teams. Or have the quality of players to make up these extra teams
WE don't want to make the mistake that both Aust and SA made. Aust still haven't recovered from it
I believe NZ has an issue that there si no simple solution for. But the solution might be too
Stick with 5 NZ super rugby teams. But ensure all teams are quality
Use some NZ players to improve MP.
Aust reduce to 4 team max.
Start promoting SRP is a professional mannerReduce NPC somehow to 12 teams and reduce the salary cap for these teams
-
@gt12 said in NZR review:
@Chris said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
as it should. make it a rep comp for club players. it will have genuine meaning again
Well it has to otherwise it is unsustainable to have so many pro teams in NZ.
NZ then will need another SR team to sustain the depth in mo.I can't see them winding up super rugby.
So, it seems pretty clear that Duluth's idea is the best here, make the NPC an amateur competition and split the Super sides roughly down the middle (Southland isn't getting one) so there are about 8-10 of them.
I doubt if NZ can afford more than 5 teams. Or have the quality of players to make up these extra teams
WE don't want to make the mistake that both Aust and SA made. Aust still haven't recovered from it
I believe NZ has an issue that there si no simple solution for. But the solution might be too
Stick with 5 NZ super rugby teams. But ensure all teams are quality
Use some NZ players to improve MP.
Aust reduce to 4 team max.
Start promoting SRP is a professional mannerReduce NPC somehow to 12 teams and reduce the salary cap for these teams
@Winger said in NZR review:
@gt12 said in NZR review:
@Chris said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
as it should. make it a rep comp for club players. it will have genuine meaning again
Well it has to otherwise it is unsustainable to have so many pro teams in NZ.
NZ then will need another SR team to sustain the depth in mo.I can't see them winding up super rugby.
So, it seems pretty clear that Duluth's idea is the best here, make the NPC an amateur competition and split the Super sides roughly down the middle (Southland isn't getting one) so there are about 8-10 of them.
I doubt if NZ can afford more than 5 teams. Or have the quality of players to make up these extra teams
WE don't want to make the mistake that both Aust and SA made. Aust still haven't recovered from it
I believe NZ has an issue that there si no simple solution for. But the solution might be too
Stick with 5 NZ super rugby teams. But ensure all teams are quality
Use some NZ players to improve MP.
Aust reduce to 4 team max.
Start promoting SRP is a professional mannerReduce NPC somehow to 12 teams and reduce the salary cap for these teams
I'm interested to know why you think they can't afford 3 more Super sides but can afford 12 NPC sides?
-
@Winger said in NZR review:
@gt12 said in NZR review:
@Chris said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
as it should. make it a rep comp for club players. it will have genuine meaning again
Well it has to otherwise it is unsustainable to have so many pro teams in NZ.
NZ then will need another SR team to sustain the depth in mo.I can't see them winding up super rugby.
So, it seems pretty clear that Duluth's idea is the best here, make the NPC an amateur competition and split the Super sides roughly down the middle (Southland isn't getting one) so there are about 8-10 of them.
I doubt if NZ can afford more than 5 teams. Or have the quality of players to make up these extra teams
WE don't want to make the mistake that both Aust and SA made. Aust still haven't recovered from it
I believe NZ has an issue that there si no simple solution for. But the solution might be too
Stick with 5 NZ super rugby teams. But ensure all teams are quality
Use some NZ players to improve MP.
Aust reduce to 4 team max.
Start promoting SRP is a professional mannerReduce NPC somehow to 12 teams and reduce the salary cap for these teams
I'm interested to know why you think they can't afford 3 more Super sides but can afford 12 NPC sides?
@gt12 said in NZR review:
I'm interested to know why you think they can't afford 3 more Super sides but can afford 12 NPC sides?
The Salary is a lot more. NPC is just a top up for super rugby players. If super rugby was for a longer season the money would need to be higher still
And the likely of getting rid of the NPC or running it a no cost is so low it can be discounted. And would be a disaster for NZ rugby
-
@gt12 said in NZR review:
I'm interested to know why you think they can't afford 3 more Super sides but can afford 12 NPC sides?
The Salary is a lot more. NPC is just a top up for super rugby players. If super rugby was for a longer season the money would need to be higher still
And the likely of getting rid of the NPC or running it a no cost is so low it can be discounted. And would be a disaster for NZ rugby
-
How long would a Super season ideally be and when should it run. I like the idea of about 20 weeks plus play offs. With an international window. Nine home games and a bye. May be a magic round at Owen Delaney Park. It'd also like to see it delayed until after cricket season starts. Super season starts around Daylight Saving. Club seasons should be aligned to finish prior to the provincial tournament finishing, giving the best opportunity for club teams to make bank at the end of club seasons.
-
@Winger you think 12 NPC teams would be cheaper too run than 2-3 super teams?
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@Winger you think 12 NPC teams would be cheaper too run than 2-3 super teams?
But you won't get rid of NPC. Or make it totally an amateur competition. All the good players would take off overseas
-
How long would a Super season ideally be and when should it run. I like the idea of about 20 weeks plus play offs. With an international window. Nine home games and a bye. May be a magic round at Owen Delaney Park. It'd also like to see it delayed until after cricket season starts. Super season starts around Daylight Saving. Club seasons should be aligned to finish prior to the provincial tournament finishing, giving the best opportunity for club teams to make bank at the end of club seasons.
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
How long would a Super season ideally be and when should it run. I like the idea of about 20 weeks plus play offs. With an international window. Nine home games and a bye. May be a magic round at Owen Delaney Park. It'd also like to see it delayed until after cricket season starts. Super season starts around Daylight Saving. Club seasons should be aligned to finish prior to the provincial tournament finishing, giving the best opportunity for club teams to make bank at the end of club seasons.
You can hardly fit super rugby plus tests in now
-
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@Winger you think 12 NPC teams would be cheaper too run than 2-3 super teams?
But you won't get rid of NPC. Or make it totally an amateur competition. All the good players would take off overseas
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@Winger you think 12 NPC teams would be cheaper too run than 2-3 super teams?
But you won't get rid of NPC. Or make it totally an amateur competition. All the good players would take off overseas
you've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
there is also the point there isn't an infinite number of professional rugby teams overseas looking for players
2-3 super teams to pick up the next level of players...the finge super players...and the NPC is rep team for club level players
i say this as someone whos preference is to ditch super rugby and ramp up the NPC teams....but i realise thats not happening so have to do something
@Winger said in NZR review:
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
How long would a Super season ideally be and when should it run. I like the idea of about 20 weeks plus play offs. With an international window. Nine home games and a bye. May be a magic round at Owen Delaney Park. It'd also like to see it delayed until after cricket season starts. Super season starts around Daylight Saving. Club seasons should be aligned to finish prior to the provincial tournament finishing, giving the best opportunity for club teams to make bank at the end of club seasons.
You can hardly fit super rugby plus tests in now
you will if it extends into what is now NPC, very few players if any will play both
-
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
How long would a Super season ideally be and when should it run. I like the idea of about 20 weeks plus play offs. With an international window. Nine home games and a bye. May be a magic round at Owen Delaney Park. It'd also like to see it delayed until after cricket season starts. Super season starts around Daylight Saving. Club seasons should be aligned to finish prior to the provincial tournament finishing, giving the best opportunity for club teams to make bank at the end of club seasons.
You can hardly fit super rugby plus tests in now
@Winger said in NZR review:
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
How long would a Super season ideally be and when should it run. I like the idea of about 20 weeks plus play offs. With an international window. Nine home games and a bye. May be a magic round at Owen Delaney Park. It'd also like to see it delayed until after cricket season starts. Super season starts around Daylight Saving. Club seasons should be aligned to finish prior to the provincial tournament finishing, giving the best opportunity for club teams to make bank at the end of club seasons.
You can hardly fit super rugby plus tests in now
And that is an issue. We need to have a competition where it does feel like it is the focus. Can't be stuck where everyone who is outside the top 35 players sits with their thumbs up their bum during June and July. We need those guys getting footy in. How do we ensure there is rugby at a decent level for the guys above club footy and below international level.
-
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
@Winger you think 12 NPC teams would be cheaper too run than 2-3 super teams?
But you won't get rid of NPC. Or make it totally an amateur competition. All the good players would take off overseas
you've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
there is also the point there isn't an infinite number of professional rugby teams overseas looking for players
2-3 super teams to pick up the next level of players...the finge super players...and the NPC is rep team for club level players
i say this as someone whos preference is to ditch super rugby and ramp up the NPC teams....but i realise thats not happening so have to do something
@Winger said in NZR review:
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
How long would a Super season ideally be and when should it run. I like the idea of about 20 weeks plus play offs. With an international window. Nine home games and a bye. May be a magic round at Owen Delaney Park. It'd also like to see it delayed until after cricket season starts. Super season starts around Daylight Saving. Club seasons should be aligned to finish prior to the provincial tournament finishing, giving the best opportunity for club teams to make bank at the end of club seasons.
You can hardly fit super rugby plus tests in now
you will if it extends into what is now NPC, very few players if any will play both
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
ou've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
NPC is certainly a level down from super rugby. Blackwell for example was fine at NPC level but clearly not SR level
But take out all of the super rugby players and it would hardly be worth watching. But 16 teams are still far too many.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
ou've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
NPC is certainly a level down from super rugby. Blackwell for example was fine at NPC level but clearly not SR level
But take out all of the super rugby players and it would hardly be worth watching. But 16 teams are still far too many.
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
ou've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
NPC is certainly a level down from super rugby. Blackwell for example was fine at NPC level but clearly not SR level
But take out all of the super rugby players and it would hardly be worth watching. But 16 teams are still far too many.
NZ Rugby needs to be innovative with its provincial rugby approach. Play all games in a location over a weekend. Look at low cost options.
-
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
of Plenty
Slap in half-way inbetween and give the team the Taupo. That way the Bay's can have split ownership.
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
of Plenty
Slap in half-way inbetween and give the team the Taupo. That way the Bay's can have split ownership.
Whakarua Park in Ruatoria seems more appropriate.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
ou've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
NPC is certainly a level down from super rugby. Blackwell for example was fine at NPC level but clearly not SR level
But take out all of the super rugby players and it would hardly be worth watching. But 16 teams are still far too many.
@Winger said in NZR review:
@Kiwiwomble said in NZR review:
ou've literally just said NZ doesnt have the depth for more than 5 super teams...so how "good" can those players be
NPC is certainly a level down from super rugby. Blackwell for example was fine at NPC level but clearly not SR level
But take out all of the super rugby players and it would hardly be worth watching. But 16 teams are still far too many.
too many in what way? they would no longer be funded by NZR...literally having to live within their means, reply on volunteers...so too many for what?
-
as it should. make it a rep comp for club players. it will have genuine meaning again
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
as it should. make it a rep comp for club players. it will have genuine meaning again
The only probelm with that is union would want to win it and spend all their $ on it (and not developing the grass roots) as they are now.
So it doesn't really achieve much.
-
From my point of view, it looks like we are making a new NPC starting from the Super franchises. If they get that to 8 (long term 10) and have one premier compeition and actually market it well, then we all get what we want.
A modern NPC with the All Blacks available, a longer season and more tribal afflilation based on region.
As a bonus, NZ Rugby doesn't go broke.
-
@gt12 said in NZR review:
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
of Plenty
Slap in half-way inbetween and give the team the Taupo. That way the Bay's can have split ownership.
King Country leaps from Heartland to Super, I love it.
It would be beautiful to see the meltdown.
They play in orange and are called the Vikings.
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@gt12 said in NZR review:
@SouthernMann said in NZR review:
@mariner4life said in NZR review:
of Plenty
Slap in half-way inbetween and give the team the Taupo. That way the Bay's can have split ownership.
King Country leaps from Heartland to Super, I love it.
It would be beautiful to see the meltdown.
They play in orange and are called the Vikings.
you need to tag @Nepia whenever you mention the Vikings :pistol:
-
From my point of view, it looks like we are making a new NPC starting from the Super franchises. If they get that to 8 (long term 10) and have one premier compeition and actually market it well, then we all get what we want.
A modern NPC with the All Blacks available, a longer season and more tribal afflilation based on region.
As a bonus, NZ Rugby doesn't go broke.
@Kirwan said in NZR review:
From my point of view, it looks like we are making a new NPC starting from the Super franchises. If they get that to 8 (long term 10) and have one premier compeition and actually market it well, then we all get what we want.
A modern NPC with the All Blacks available, a longer season and more tribal afflilation based on region.
As a bonus, NZ Rugby doesn't go broke.
Sounds great, but the fundamental role of a PU must change from trying to win the NPC to developing the grass roots.
This is a massive mindset change that isn't going to be achieved by swapping 3 members of a board.
