Highlanders 2025
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@SouthernMann shit I liked that before clicking to Lowe. I guess in form he can do a job, that's very infrequent though.
@Bones said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann shit I liked that before clicking to Lowe. I guess in form he can do a job, that's very infrequent though.
Yeah the joy of signing him to a three year deal. He is going to get plenty of good tackle bag holding time next year. He probably still isn't going to be ready until a good few weeks into the comp. Peni from Southland could be worth a go. He just needs to get fit.
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@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby Who are the Midfielders?
Gilbert, Umaga-Jensen, Tele'a, Whaanga x 2, Te Hiwi is my guess at the six. Matt Whaanga has been injured for Southland. The six outsides are' JRK, Tavatavanawai, Nareki, Tangitau, Hurley and Lowe.
@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.
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@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.
@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.
Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.
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@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.
Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.
Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.
Nibble on the line!
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With the squad basically settled, think our team looks interesting. Like most years, suspect what we start the year with will look quite different to the end of the year:
- de Groot (c)
- Taylor
- Ma'u
- Dunshea
- Holland
- Haig
- Withy (vc)
- Broughton
- Fakatava
- Millar
- Tangitau
- Umaga-Jensen
- Tele'a
- Tavatavanawai
- Ratumaitavuki-Kneepkens
- Bell
- ?
- ?
- Howden
- Lasaqa
- Stodart
- Arscott
- Gilbert
I'm not normally a fan, particularly with the injury prone midfield we have, but particularly for games with the other NZ sides, an explosive 6-2 split where we can bring on a fresh loose forward trio could be a great option.
Note: I'm picking Renton and Nareki to start the season, before being slowly phased out - and obviously injuries will pay a part, and pretty much everyone in the squad will get a chance at some stage
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The Highlanders have the potential to have the best lineout, maul, and lock and loose forward combo (including the bench) in the comp imo. If Millar keeps going and the centres stay healthy, there’s a lot of potential (or is that wishful thinking)
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The Highlanders have the potential to have the best lineout, maul, and lock and loose forward combo (including the bench) in the comp imo. If Millar keeps going and the centres stay healthy, there’s a lot of potential (or is that wishful thinking)
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
or is that wishful thinking
I think there’s definitely potential but looking at your proposed back five, I would think that many of the same issues of the past few Highlanders’ seasons would persist. In that back five, there are plenty of good lineout targets and a lot of hardworking defenders but I’m not sure there are enough dynamic carriers who can make a lot of metres.
I’ve taken a quick look at some NPC stats of your proposed starting locks and loosies (RugbyPass stats, so not very precise but still), focusing on their number of carries, metres made and average metres per carry. This was the resulting table (opposition in the final column):
Broughton stands out, both in total number of carries and average metres per carry, which is to be expected of a number 8 I suppose. But he’s having a great season for Bay of Plenty. The others put up solid enough numbers. The second row of Holland and Dunshea might lack a carrying threat, though. Dunshea had one game against Waikato where he racked up a lot of metres but in others, like against Canterbury, he doesn’t make a carry. Holland offers a good work-rate but doesn’t make a lot of metres per carry (0.9).
Compared to other Super Rugby second row options (for example, the Blues with McWhannell (avg. 7.4 carries; 15.2 m; 2.09 m/c), Beehre (avg. 8.8 carries; 16.4 m; 2.56 m/c), and Suafoa (avg. 16.2 carries; 24.8 m; 1.58 m/c), not to mention someone like Tuipulotu), this might be a little too light as a carrying unit. I’d argue that the lack of ball-carrying forwards – the Highlanders front row doesn’t really offer a lot there, either – was a real problem last Super Rugby season as well (Holland and Dunshea combined for 7 carries and 9 metres made in last year’s quarterfinal against the Brumbies).
One interesting option would be to play someone like Oli Haig at lock. This would open up the blindside spot for someone like Hugh Renton (avg. 15.6 carries; 37.2 m; 2.26 m/c), allowing the carrying duties to be more evenly distributed among the back five. It would make the Highlander attack less predictable, instead of relying too much on a single player (Harmon last year, Broughton this year) to make something happen.
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
or is that wishful thinking
I think there’s definitely potential but looking at your proposed back five, I would think that many of the same issues of the past few Highlanders’ seasons would persist. In that back five, there are plenty of good lineout targets and a lot of hardworking defenders but I’m not sure there are enough dynamic carriers who can make a lot of metres.
I’ve taken a quick look at some NPC stats of your proposed starting locks and loosies (RugbyPass stats, so not very precise but still), focusing on their number of carries, metres made and average metres per carry. This was the resulting table (opposition in the final column):
Broughton stands out, both in total number of carries and average metres per carry, which is to be expected of a number 8 I suppose. But he’s having a great season for Bay of Plenty. The others put up solid enough numbers. The second row of Holland and Dunshea might lack a carrying threat, though. Dunshea had one game against Waikato where he racked up a lot of metres but in others, like against Canterbury, he doesn’t make a carry. Holland offers a good work-rate but doesn’t make a lot of metres per carry (0.9).
Compared to other Super Rugby second row options (for example, the Blues with McWhannell (avg. 7.4 carries; 15.2 m; 2.09 m/c), Beehre (avg. 8.8 carries; 16.4 m; 2.56 m/c), and Suafoa (avg. 16.2 carries; 24.8 m; 1.58 m/c), not to mention someone like Tuipulotu), this might be a little too light as a carrying unit. I’d argue that the lack of ball-carrying forwards – the Highlanders front row doesn’t really offer a lot there, either – was a real problem last Super Rugby season as well (Holland and Dunshea combined for 7 carries and 9 metres made in last year’s quarterfinal against the Brumbies).
One interesting option would be to play someone like Oli Haig at lock. This would open up the blindside spot for someone like Hugh Renton (avg. 15.6 carries; 37.2 m; 2.26 m/c), allowing the carrying duties to be more evenly distributed among the back five. It would make the Highlander attack less predictable, instead of relying too much on a single player (Harmon last year, Broughton this year) to make something happen.
@Mauss great stats and thanks for the effort. I think a lot of the carrying stats for the Otago NPC players is offset by an incredibly poor game plan. A lot of those players are more than capable of big runs but the one off carries off 9 and lack of dynamic attacking play past the 3-4 phase gives little room for the forward to get into space.
The likes of Holland, Haig, and Withy are all very good runners and decisions makers in open space, and good at passing and offloading. I think a decent game plan will help them a lot.
Only apprehension with Broughton is that he makes the good run but lacks in the physicality department, particularly on the offensive ruck.
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@Mauss great stats and thanks for the effort. I think a lot of the carrying stats for the Otago NPC players is offset by an incredibly poor game plan. A lot of those players are more than capable of big runs but the one off carries off 9 and lack of dynamic attacking play past the 3-4 phase gives little room for the forward to get into space.
The likes of Holland, Haig, and Withy are all very good runners and decisions makers in open space, and good at passing and offloading. I think a decent game plan will help them a lot.
Only apprehension with Broughton is that he makes the good run but lacks in the physicality department, particularly on the offensive ruck.
@KiwiInLondon Yeah, you could well be right about the Otago game plan. I also looked at Stodart's carry numbers and it's quite similar: high volume of carries with not a lot of result. The Otago gameplan is quite conservative, especially in the opposition 22, resorting mostly to the pick and go.
I do think someone like Holland, if he wants to make the step up to the next level, will have to show a little more when carrying into contact. A bit more aggression and leg drive, and I think he would become a very complete player.
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@KiwiInLondon Yeah, you could well be right about the Otago game plan. I also looked at Stodart's carry numbers and it's quite similar: high volume of carries with not a lot of result. The Otago gameplan is quite conservative, especially in the opposition 22, resorting mostly to the pick and go.
I do think someone like Holland, if he wants to make the step up to the next level, will have to show a little more when carrying into contact. A bit more aggression and leg drive, and I think he would become a very complete player.
@Mauss agreed. Jamie Joseph will help them take the next step up. They’re big lads but they need direction.
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@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
or is that wishful thinking
I think there’s definitely potential but looking at your proposed back five, I would think that many of the same issues of the past few Highlanders’ seasons would persist. In that back five, there are plenty of good lineout targets and a lot of hardworking defenders but I’m not sure there are enough dynamic carriers who can make a lot of metres.
I’ve taken a quick look at some NPC stats of your proposed starting locks and loosies (RugbyPass stats, so not very precise but still), focusing on their number of carries, metres made and average metres per carry. This was the resulting table (opposition in the final column):
Broughton stands out, both in total number of carries and average metres per carry, which is to be expected of a number 8 I suppose. But he’s having a great season for Bay of Plenty. The others put up solid enough numbers. The second row of Holland and Dunshea might lack a carrying threat, though. Dunshea had one game against Waikato where he racked up a lot of metres but in others, like against Canterbury, he doesn’t make a carry. Holland offers a good work-rate but doesn’t make a lot of metres per carry (0.9).
Compared to other Super Rugby second row options (for example, the Blues with McWhannell (avg. 7.4 carries; 15.2 m; 2.09 m/c), Beehre (avg. 8.8 carries; 16.4 m; 2.56 m/c), and Suafoa (avg. 16.2 carries; 24.8 m; 1.58 m/c), not to mention someone like Tuipulotu), this might be a little too light as a carrying unit. I’d argue that the lack of ball-carrying forwards – the Highlanders front row doesn’t really offer a lot there, either – was a real problem last Super Rugby season as well (Holland and Dunshea combined for 7 carries and 9 metres made in last year’s quarterfinal against the Brumbies).
One interesting option would be to play someone like Oli Haig at lock. This would open up the blindside spot for someone like Hugh Renton (avg. 15.6 carries; 37.2 m; 2.26 m/c), allowing the carrying duties to be more evenly distributed among the back five. It would make the Highlander attack less predictable, instead of relying too much on a single player (Harmon last year, Broughton this year) to make something happen.
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@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.
Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.
Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.
i also just want to add i think Gilbert has been done no favours but being shuffled around wherever we're weak
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.
Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.
i also just want to add i think Gilbert has been done no favours but being shuffled around wherever we're weak
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.
Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.
i also just want to add i think Gilbert has been done no favours but being shuffled around wherever we're weak
I used to think this, was plausible, but I actually think the bigger thing that screwed Gilbert over was that ACL injury. He initially shook it off pretty well, but in the space of two years all his pace has gone. He would be a liability as an outside back now I think, which is a shame.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@HLD2023Champions said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann Gilbert and Nareki need to go, too many Otago players in that team. They’re all has beens.
Nareki is looking offshore for the end of the year last I heard, but still a very good winger - him and Gilbert are not even on the same planet.
i also just want to add i think Gilbert has been done no favours but being shuffled around wherever we're weak
I used to think this, was plausible, but I actually think the bigger thing that screwed Gilbert over was that ACL injury. He initially shook it off pretty well, but in the space of two years all his pace has gone. He would be a liability as an outside back now I think, which is a shame.
@frugby without doubt, definitely one of those that came back from injury without the confidence in his body
i just also think it wont have helped coming back being uncertain of how and where exactly he was going to be playing
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The Highlanders have the potential to have the best lineout, maul, and lock and loose forward combo (including the bench) in the comp imo. If Millar keeps going and the centres stay healthy, there’s a lot of potential (or is that wishful thinking)
@KiwiInLondon said in Highlanders 2025:
The Highlanders have the potential to have the best lineout, maul, and lock and loose forward combo (including the bench) in the comp imo. If Millar keeps going and the centres stay healthy, there’s a lot of potential (or is that wishful thinking)
Injuries will be key. Because of depth, de Groot, Holland and Fakatava pretty much have to stay fit for us to have any chance of competing at the business end.
We have a reasonably good draw I feel, so if we can hit the ground running them, definitely a good chance at the Top 6.
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I’d love another big enforcer in the loose forwards, just like how the chiefs singed Jerome Brown. And possibly another classy centre.
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Hope the landers have a plan to sign another First Five. Can’t fully rely on both these young fellas
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Hope the landers have a plan to sign another First Five. Can’t fully rely on both these young fellas
@HLD2023Champions Miller is fine and is good and has the potential to be great. Falefega is an idiot who’s should go back to club rugby (why no one sees this is beyond me).
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Exactly what I mean. Just need another 10 to cover Miller with a bit of experience..
