All Blacks vs Fiji
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Read the previous comments...shouldn't have. People are going to see what they are going to see. You can predict the people who are going to say something less than positive about Niggles and it is always "he does this but ...(slide in some abstract shite)". Watch Niggles be a pest at the breakdown, support the ball carrier, etc. Actually should have been penalized for playing on the wrong side of the ruck a few times but ...
LJ needs a mention as well. I think you get Cane's defense game plus a bit more. Here is a controversial comment. Maybe a Niggles, LJ, and Sotutu backrow with Savea as impact might be our best combo.
As did Clarke. I have been his biggest critic but his positional play, high ball ability, etc is really an obvious improvement compared to Telea.
And Proctor! A real center's game. Really impressed both on defense and attack.
I wonder how much you can read on this game though. Time will tell I suppose.@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Maybe a Niggles, LJ, and Sotutu backrow with Savea as impact might be our best combo.
Not that controversial.
I think you could swap in/out about 8 names in any number of combinations and it would be a defendable opinion.
Edit: defendable, not dependable
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RI to the wing please and a centre at centre. ALB had a great game. BP was decent too. Thought Ratima and then Hotham very good too. And CC looks so much better with less body weight.
3/3 so far. Ah, I’d forgotten what it was like for the ABs to string together victories.
@Billy-Tell Oh come on lol, we strung many victories together under the last management too haha.
Lets not act like we barely strung 2 victories in a row from 2020-2023.
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All in all a pretty satisfactory performance. Fiji weren't great, to be honest, and it's hard to read too much into individual performances beyond the fact that none of the debutants looked overawed.
I'd like to see two teams relatively close to full strength rolled out against Argentina, but there's definitely room for a bit of experimentation in a couple of positions because, in my opinion, there are a few 'second stringers' who are pushing the incumbents.
I think Tupou Vaa'i, Cortez Ratima, Anton Lienert-Brown, Caleb Clarke and Emoni Narawa should be starting in the first Test in place of Patrick Tuipulotu, TJ Perenara, Rieko Ioane, Mark Tele'a and Sevu Reece, but otherwise sticking with the the same side that was used in the opening game of the season.
It's tough to pick between the three Chiefs loosies at the moment, Samipeni Finau, Luke Jacobson and Wallace Sititi, for who should start, who should come off the bench and who should be left out of the 23. My preference is to persist with Finau for now and maybe give Sititi the 20 jersey. I think Jacobson should probably be starting or not in the team, I don't think he adds enough impact from the bench and I'd like to see a bit more of Sititi.
Stephen Perofeta holds onto the 15 jersey for my mind. Narawa needs a proper run. There's probably a bit of room for rotation in the props and I'm not too bothered if Codie Taylor or Asafo Aumua starts with the other on the bench.
After the first Argentina game, Robertson should be able to largely confirm the top team to run out in the second game and against the Springboks.
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Yes Beaudan IMO looks better off the bench. LJ is good defensively, good at LO but hard to gauge against Fiji who did not contest, but not really an impact player, Niggles may be better off bench and less effective tackler but they are otherwise fighting for same role (and IMO EB is better at 6 than 7).
Not mentioned much here I think but Aumuas no look passing was so sharp and effective! Even Beauden could learn from that (BB still sometimes doesn't delay but goes for ye old hospital pass). You can see why they like Wallace off the bench. They're using Ardie a huge amount as a linker he is basically another 12 minus the kicking. Man that was the best ALB performance for ages, he was really aggro and assertive. I could be wrong but Proctor looks like he has the game against tighter tougher midfielders as well, classy. He's not a tank though. France or SA might be interesting.
Did anyone else think Darry played well? Showed some good hands, energy and reflexes methinks.
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Oh forgot to mention Niggles was always keen to assist, still think he's not long-term 6 until he becomes more astute and effective with ball.
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And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
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And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.
Actually running with the ball would be cool too
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.
Actually running with the ball would be cool too
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.
Actually running with the ball would be cool too
baby steps, giant baby steps..
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.
Actually running with the ball would be cool too
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.
Actually running with the ball would be cool too
Meh. A prop being able to run with the ball won't win you games - but a prop who can dominate the scrum will go a long way towards helping that. I think this is particularly true of a reserve prop (which is all Newell has ever been for the ABs)
The job of a sub is always simplified, and I think of a reserve prop, the main concern is what he can do in the scrum.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.
Actually running with the ball would be cool too
Meh. A prop being able to run with the ball won't win you games - but a prop who can dominate the scrum will go a long way towards helping that. I think this is particularly true of a reserve prop (which is all Newell has ever been for the ABs)
The job of a sub is always simplified, and I think of a reserve prop, the main concern is what he can do in the scrum.
Its a pity Tosi wasn't better in the scum. He was VG during super rugby but struiggled in his first test. Because he offers everything that Newell lacks around the field. And more than most TH props
I would work on Tosi's scrumaging. As Newell is unlikely to offer much else even with work. Great in the scrum but limited elsewhere
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@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
And some of our props were shown up around the field by their replacements, boy we are lucky to have these 4, now to find more locks..
I’m assuming Newell is a terrific scrummager because he offers absolutely nothing else, even by the less than impressive standards of recent AB props.
I think that is why they like him - a terrific scrummager. No reason his ball skills can't improve either. I reckon EDG's ball skills have improved loads since he made his test debut.
Actually running with the ball would be cool too
Meh. A prop being able to run with the ball won't win you games - but a prop who can dominate the scrum will go a long way towards helping that. I think this is particularly true of a reserve prop (which is all Newell has ever been for the ABs)
The job of a sub is always simplified, and I think of a reserve prop, the main concern is what he can do in the scrum.
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Meh. A prop being able to run with the ball won't win you games
A tight 5 who can hold and pass is critical. Part of that is running. We have gone backwards in that regard in the last few years.
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RI to the wing please and a centre at centre. ALB had a great game. BP was decent too. Thought Ratima and then Hotham very good too. And CC looks so much better with less body weight.
3/3 so far. Ah, I’d forgotten what it was like for the ABs to string together victories.
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Meh. A prop being able to run with the ball won't win you games
A tight 5 who can hold and pass is critical. Part of that is running. We have gone backwards in that regard in the last few years.
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My view of who put their hand up to start
Aumua. Offers a lot more than Taylor. He just needs to be consistent with his lineout throwing game after game,
Proctor. My MOTM. I thought he was outstanding. And a real centre. I would start Proctor with Jordie in the midfield and move Reiko back to the wing.
Clarke. Back to his best. Almost a must start if fit
Ratima. Unlike many I also thought Hotham has a good game too. But would start Ratima with either Perenara or maybe Hotham as the backup
BB. To start until Jordan returns. My preference would be Love statting until Jordan returns but ...Not good enough or a maybe
Tosi in the scrum. Shame as otherwise he was superb
Williams. As a replacement maybe
Siti Looked the goods for sure
Darry. Didn't look out of place
ALB. Another option at 2nd 5 but would definitely keep Barrett here -
@nzzp I think you could go back further than the past few years...we used to have a good scrum with the best ball running and skillful props 10+ years back.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@nzzp I think you could go back further than the past few years...we used to have a good scrum with the best ball running and skillful props 10+ years back.
Steve McDowell
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The outside break by Caleb was awesome and a forgotten skill by many. Deserved a try.
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Its a pity Tosi wasn't better in the scum. He was VG during super rugby but struiggled in his first test. Because he offers everything that Newell lacks around the field. And more than most TH props
I would work on Tosi's scrumaging. As Newell is unlikely to offer much else even with work. Great in the scrum but limited elsewhere
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Its a pity Tosi wasn't better in the scum. He was VG during super rugby but struiggled in his first test. Because he offers everything that Newell lacks around the field. And more than most TH props
I would work on Tosi's scrumaging. As Newell is unlikely to offer much else even with work. Great in the scrum but limited elsewhere
Work on his scrummaging and you are onto a winner. Hopefully he keeps improving... I'd argue that history shows that it easier to work on a prop's all-round game than scrummaging, so writing Newell off feels pretty harsh.
There have been very few guys go from being poor scrummagers to good scrummagers... Lomax is one in recent times, but feels rare.
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@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Meh. A prop being able to run with the ball won't win you games
A tight 5 who can hold and pass is critical. Part of that is running. We have gone backwards in that regard in the last few years.
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
Meh. A prop being able to run with the ball won't win you games
A tight 5 who can hold and pass is critical. Part of that is running. We have gone backwards in that regard in the last few years.
The All Blacks tried to pick a mobile front row in 2019 and it backfired fairly spectacularly. Set piece is crucial, particularly with the way scrums are referred in the modern game.
I agree that the baseline should be being able to catch the ball, so Newell definitely needs to work on that, but I also think it is less of a concern when he clearly isn't viewed as a starter. He has started just 1/16 tests, and when Lomax was injured they went with Laulala and left him on the bench.
