All Blacks vs Argentina I
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor continues to have a massive horn for Blackadder. That's all very well but it's time for him to show everyone why now
it's not just Razor. The last group did everything they could to get him involved as well. I wish someone would tell us what we are missing.
Since you asked... and to post some documented stuff.
Ethan has a massive motor.
Best Bronco times:
McCaw: 4.30
Blackadder 4.32 (4.34 in the article below but there's a podcast where he says 4.32)
Papalií 4.45That's pretty good for a guy who's probably slightly bigger than Richie - and will be playing 6.
His best position is 7 (especially at this level). If they picked him and Paps and said go to it, it would’ve been very understandable.
But, he’s picked at 6?
Richie motor doesn’t really equal great AB six.
Btw, I’ll be pleased to be shown I’m wrong if goes great fun’s, but honestly if we want a Crusader 6, it should be either of the other two options.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor continues to have a massive horn for Blackadder. That's all very well but it's time for him to show everyone why now
it's not just Razor. The last group did everything they could to get him involved as well. I wish someone would tell us what we are missing.
Since you asked... and to post some documented stuff.
Ethan has a massive motor.
Best Bronco times:
McCaw: 4.30
Blackadder 4.32 (4.34 in the article below but there's a podcast where he says 4.32)
Papalií 4.45That's pretty good for a guy who's probably slightly bigger than Richie - and will be playing 6.
His best position is 7 (especially at this level). If they picked him and Paps and said go to it, it would’ve been very understandable.
But, he’s picked at 6?
Richie motor doesn’t really equal great AB six.
Btw, I’ll be pleased to be shown I’m wrong if goes great fun’s, but honestly if we want a Crusader 6, it should be either of the other two options.
I'm concerned players are not being given clear roles in this squad. Razor has talked about favouring players that can play more than one position. Against Fiji we had Blackadder starting at 7, and now against Argentina he is starting at 6, a very different position at test level. Why? Against Fiji we had ALB at 12, and he had a very strong game there. Against Argentina we have him starting at 13, again a very different position at test level. Why?
We've seen this strategy fail spectacularly time and again at the top level, and it has ruined players form and confidence. In fact I can't really think of a player that has truly succeeded in regularly playing different positions for the ABs.
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Thinking on that more, maybe they see Blackadder and ALB as primarily bench players, and want to give them time in multiple positions against lesser opposition so they can cover more from the bench at an adequate level?
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My fear with the AB's and it has been for a long time is our lack of ball carriers in the forward pack.
With time and space well can rip anyone apart, but everyone's defensive gameplan is to give us no time and space so we need heavy ball runners to dent to line so we can create space.
I just dont think that the "choose a mobile pack and run everyone off their feet" is a realistic gameplan, especially with a 23 man squad and everyone simply lifting their game as professionalism does. I think that gameplan is outdated.
Now it maybe a case in that we simply don't have the cattle, and were doing the best with the players we have but if that's the case and we havn't got heavy ball runners were going to need some innovation and smart thinking to create space, somehow across the field.
For me that's going to be the main challenge of this coaching group.
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My fear with the AB's and it has been for a long time is our lack of ball carriers in the forward pack.
With time and space well can rip anyone apart, but everyone's defensive gameplan is to give us no time and space so we need heavy ball runners to dent to line so we can create space.
I just dont think that the "choose a mobile pack and run everyone off their feet" is a realistic gameplan, especially with a 23 man squad and everyone simply lifting their game as professionalism does. I think that gameplan is outdated.
Now it maybe a case in that we simply don't have the cattle, and were doing the best with the players we have but if that's the case and we havn't got heavy ball runners were going to need some innovation and smart thinking to create space, somehow across the field.
For me that's going to be the main challenge of this coaching group.
@Windows97 We now have running halfbacks and they are looking at passing centres. So the TWM are working on varying the attack. Sititi, Aumua and Savea are all good carriers. A work in progress.
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@Windows97 We now have running halfbacks and they are looking at passing centres. So the TWM are working on varying the attack. Sititi, Aumua and Savea are all good carriers. A work in progress.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Windows97 We now have running halfbacks and they are looking at passing centres. So the TWM are working on varying the attack. Sititi, Aumua and Savea are all good carriers. A work in progress.
Yeah good points, we need a running halfback to put doubt in the rush defence and having guys who can distribute the ball to the wings will help create more space instead of the ball dying in the midfield. The guys you mentioned can all carry well to, Sititi is an exciting prospect and I hope Amua finnaly finds his feet and confidence.
Dmac is also a 1st5 that can create space for people around him but I think is finding the gulf between SR where he does this very well and international rugby quite a difficult one to cross. Again with more gametime in the seat I think he'll only get better and better.
Will be interesitng to track this development.
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Over the last few years repeatedly carting the ball up against Allende, Kriel et al. has been unfruitful.
It looks like they are working on it -
Roigard - DMac will take a bit of stopping
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor continues to have a massive horn for Blackadder. That's all very well but it's time for him to show everyone why now
it's not just Razor. The last group did everything they could to get him involved as well. I wish someone would tell us what we are missing.
Since you asked... and to post some documented stuff.
Ethan has a massive motor.
Best Bronco times:
McCaw: 4.30
Blackadder 4.32 (4.34 in the article below but there's a podcast where he says 4.32)
Papalií 4.45That's pretty good for a guy who's probably slightly bigger than Richie - and will be playing 6.
His best position is 7 (especially at this level). If they picked him and Paps and said go to it, it would’ve been very understandable.
But, he’s picked at 6?
Richie motor doesn’t really equal great AB six.
Btw, I’ll be pleased to be shown I’m wrong if goes great fun’s, but honestly if we want a Crusader 6, it should be either of the other two options.
I'm concerned players are not being given clear roles in this squad. Razor has talked about favouring players that can play more than one position. Against Fiji we had Blackadder starting at 7, and now against Argentina he is starting at 6, a very different position at test level. Why? Against Fiji we had ALB at 12, and he had a very strong game there. Against Argentina we have him starting at 13, again a very different position at test level. Why?
We've seen this strategy fail spectacularly time and again at the top level, and it has ruined players form and confidence. In fact I can't really think of a player that has truly succeeded in regularly playing different positions for the ABs.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor continues to have a massive horn for Blackadder. That's all very well but it's time for him to show everyone why now
it's not just Razor. The last group did everything they could to get him involved as well. I wish someone would tell us what we are missing.
Since you asked... and to post some documented stuff.
Ethan has a massive motor.
Best Bronco times:
McCaw: 4.30
Blackadder 4.32 (4.34 in the article below but there's a podcast where he says 4.32)
Papalií 4.45That's pretty good for a guy who's probably slightly bigger than Richie - and will be playing 6.
His best position is 7 (especially at this level). If they picked him and Paps and said go to it, it would’ve been very understandable.
But, he’s picked at 6?
Richie motor doesn’t really equal great AB six.
Btw, I’ll be pleased to be shown I’m wrong if goes great fun’s, but honestly if we want a Crusader 6, it should be either of the other two options.
I'm concerned players are not being given clear roles in this squad. Razor has talked about favouring players that can play more than one position. Against Fiji we had Blackadder starting at 7, and now against Argentina he is starting at 6, a very different position at test level. Why? Against Fiji we had ALB at 12, and he had a very strong game there. Against Argentina we have him starting at 13, again a very different position at test level. Why?
We've seen this strategy fail spectacularly time and again at the top level, and it has ruined players form and confidence. In fact I can't really think of a player that has truly succeeded in regularly playing different positions for the ABs.
The simple answer is that Razor wanted to give everyone a run (and, if they were ready, ideally a starting opportunity) across the three Tests.
If ALB had been restricted to playing 13 or Blackadder to 6, then they (or their competitors in those positions, such as Proctor and Jacobson) would've seen less game time.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Windows97 We now have running halfbacks and they are looking at passing centres. So the TWM are working on varying the attack. Sititi, Aumua and Savea are all good carriers. A work in progress.
Yeah good points, we need a running halfback to put doubt in the rush defence and having guys who can distribute the ball to the wings will help create more space instead of the ball dying in the midfield. The guys you mentioned can all carry well to, Sititi is an exciting prospect and I hope Amua finnaly finds his feet and confidence.
Dmac is also a 1st5 that can create space for people around him but I think is finding the gulf between SR where he does this very well and international rugby quite a difficult one to cross. Again with more gametime in the seat I think he'll only get better and better.
Will be interesitng to track this development.
@Windows97 The Los reverse banana kick is also an option
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21 year old Argie Lock Pedro Rubiolo is listed at 1.91m. Darry has 12cm on him if they mark each other. They do however have two 2 metre Locks on the bench, including the experienced Lavanini.
@Daffy-Jaffy said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
21 year old Argie Lock Pedro Rubiolo is listed at 1.91m. Darry has 12cm on him if they mark each other. They do however have two 2 metre Locks on the bench, including the experienced Lavanini.
He'll spend more time on the naughty chair than on the field if he's on the bench to start with.
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Wow, with the responses on here you'd think we were still in the Foster era...
Fact is that these two Tests against Argentina are the easiest of the Rugby Championships and the selectors will use them to finesse their first-choice team for the rest of the year.
Tight five picks itself, given injuries to Barrett and Tuipulotu, and Aumua'a comparative advantage off the bench compared to Taylor.
Papali'i and (a slightly out of form) Savea are largely locked in at 7 and 8 - though I think Cane is still the better 7 than Papali'i but is heading off next year. Still wouldn't be hugely surprised to see him get minutes against Argentina and SA. At 6, it's a straight choice between Blackadder and Finau, given Jacobson's injury. Blackadder gets a run there this week but I assume Finau will get a crack next week and then whoever's the better performer of the two will likely start in SA.
Perenara is a baffling selection but it was always likely to be a combo of him and Ratima. Would still prefer Ratima to start.
ALB has been in great form over the last 12 months and he's been well and truly deserving of a run outside Jordie Barrett for a long time now. He and Proctor play a very similar game and are in similar form but with the team slightly down on experience, I'm pleased to see ALB in the side.
Tele'a hasn't had the best start to the year but and as some have alluded to this week, this could be his last chance to prove he should be starting on (either) wing, with Clarke probably the best choice at 11. I expect Clarke to get that jersey from next week, with Tele'a, Reece and Jordan largely fighting it out for the right wing spot.
The selectors haven't made any indication that this is the top (available) XV. We'll see that team line up against SA. For now, I'm pretty happy with the one selected - especially without knowing who they'll run out next weekend.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Wow, with the responses on here you'd think we were still in the Foster era...
Fact is that these two Tests against Argentina are the easiest of the Rugby Championships and the selectors will use them to finesse their first-choice team for the rest of the year.
Tight five picks itself, given injuries to Barrett and Tuipulotu, and Aumua'a comparative advantage off the bench compared to Taylor.
Papali'i and (a slightly out of form) Savea are largely locked in at 7 and 8 - though I think Cane is still the better 7 than Papali'i but is heading off next year. Still wouldn't be hugely surprised to see him get minutes against Argentina and SA. At 6, it's a straight choice between Blackadder and Finau, given Jacobson's injury. Blackadder gets a run there this week but I assume Finau will get a crack next week and then whoever's the better performer of the two will likely start in SA.
Perenara is a baffling selection but it was always likely to be a combo of him and Ratima. Would still prefer Ratima to start.
ALB has been in great form over the last 12 months and he's been well and truly deserving of a run outside Jordie Barrett for a long time now. He and Proctor play a very similar game and are in similar form but with the team slightly down on experience, I'm pleased to see ALB in the side.
Tele'a hasn't had the best start to the year but and as some have alluded to this week, this could be his last chance to prove he should be starting on (either) wing, with Clarke probably the best choice at 11. I expect Clarke to get that jersey from next week, with Tele'a, Reece and Jordan largely fighting it out for the right wing spot.
The selectors haven't made any indication that this is the top (available) XV. We'll see that team line up against SA. For now, I'm pretty happy with the one selected - especially without knowing who they'll run out next weekend.
Apart from Razor saying straight out, this is their best team, you're right.
And yes, I know, it was best team for this game PR bullshit speak
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@Tordah said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Team looks wack. I guess teams will always look a little worse now that so many legends have left NZR again after another world cup cycle.
Hope the locks step up. Va'ai has been a lot better this season. Will be interesting how the scrum goes with a new engine room. Props can only do so much.
Blackadder has to improve quite a bit.
Tele'a being all slippery is cool, but sometimes you just need a bit more pace. Clarke would have been my pick, I hated him before this season, but he has improved so much. J Barrett needs to get a bit more consistent, but love his long drop outs. McKenzie has been pretty good. Always was a fan of ALB, glad he is getting a start. Maybe Rieko in for Tele'a at 60 mins?
Still have a soft spot for Beauden, ever since he burst onto the scene in 2012, no matter how shitty his exit kicks are and how I sometimes scream at the highly illegal stream on my laptop when he does a silly chip - when they come off, I'd suck his balls again.If that’s not encouragement for BB to improve I don’t know what is
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Tordah said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Team looks wack. I guess teams will always look a little worse now that so many legends have left NZR again after another world cup cycle.
Hope the locks step up. Va'ai has been a lot better this season. Will be interesting how the scrum goes with a new engine room. Props can only do so much.
Blackadder has to improve quite a bit.
Tele'a being all slippery is cool, but sometimes you just need a bit more pace. Clarke would have been my pick, I hated him before this season, but he has improved so much. J Barrett needs to get a bit more consistent, but love his long drop outs. McKenzie has been pretty good. Always was a fan of ALB, glad he is getting a start. Maybe Rieko in for Tele'a at 60 mins?
Still have a soft spot for Beauden, ever since he burst onto the scene in 2012, no matter how shitty his exit kicks are and how I sometimes scream at the highly illegal stream on my laptop when he does a silly chip - when they come off, I'd suck his balls again.If that’s not encouragement for BB to improve I don’t know what is
I just wonder when the previous time he sucked BB balls was?
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My fear with the AB's and it has been for a long time is our lack of ball carriers in the forward pack.
With time and space well can rip anyone apart, but everyone's defensive gameplan is to give us no time and space so we need heavy ball runners to dent to line so we can create space.
I just dont think that the "choose a mobile pack and run everyone off their feet" is a realistic gameplan, especially with a 23 man squad and everyone simply lifting their game as professionalism does. I think that gameplan is outdated.
Now it maybe a case in that we simply don't have the cattle, and were doing the best with the players we have but if that's the case and we havn't got heavy ball runners were going to need some innovation and smart thinking to create space, somehow across the field.
For me that's going to be the main challenge of this coaching group.
@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Now it maybe a case in that we simply don't have the cattle, and were doing the best with the players we have but if that's the case and we havn't got heavy ball runners were going to need some innovation and smart thinking to create space, somehow across the field.
Such a shame the South Africans are no longer in Super Rugby. It would have been very interesting to see how the Blues game this year went against them. That would have given us an indication on whether we have the cattle to play that way against the big boys.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Now it maybe a case in that we simply don't have the cattle, and were doing the best with the players we have but if that's the case and we havn't got heavy ball runners were going to need some innovation and smart thinking to create space, somehow across the field.
Such a shame the South Africans are no longer in Super Rugby. It would have been very interesting to see how the Blues game this year went against them. That would have given us an indication on whether we have the cattle to play that way against the big boys.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Now it maybe a case in that we simply don't have the cattle, and were doing the best with the players we have but if that's the case and we havn't got heavy ball runners were going to need some innovation and smart thinking to create space, somehow across the field.
Such a shame the South Africans are no longer in Super Rugby. It would have been very interesting to see how the Blues game this year went against them. That would have given us an indication on whether we have the cattle to play that way against the big boys.
would it though? i mean there are only 3 of the Blues pack selected in this test. And that number doesn't really chance if everyone is available. 3 of 13. The selectors clearly don't see the way the Blues play, and the players pulling it off as anything special, or the way they want to play. All it would have shown is the Blues pack can play Blues footy against anyone.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor continues to have a massive horn for Blackadder. That's all very well but it's time for him to show everyone why now
it's not just Razor. The last group did everything they could to get him involved as well. I wish someone would tell us what we are missing.
Since you asked... and to post some documented stuff.
Ethan has a massive motor.
Best Bronco times:
McCaw: 4.30
Blackadder 4.32 (4.34 in the article below but there's a podcast where he says 4.32)
Papalií 4.45That's pretty good for a guy who's probably slightly bigger than Richie - and will be playing 6.
His best position is 7 (especially at this level). If they picked him and Paps and said go to it, it would’ve been very understandable.
But, he’s picked at 6?
Richie motor doesn’t really equal great AB six.
Btw, I’ll be pleased to be shown I’m wrong if goes great fun’s, but honestly if we want a Crusader 6, it should be either of the other two options.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor continues to have a massive horn for Blackadder. That's all very well but it's time for him to show everyone why now
it's not just Razor. The last group did everything they could to get him involved as well. I wish someone would tell us what we are missing.
Since you asked... and to post some documented stuff.
Ethan has a massive motor.
Best Bronco times:
McCaw: 4.30
Blackadder 4.32 (4.34 in the article below but there's a podcast where he says 4.32)
Papalií 4.45That's pretty good for a guy who's probably slightly bigger than Richie - and will be playing 6.
His best position is 7 (especially at this level). If they picked him and Paps and said go to it, it would’ve been very understandable.
But, he’s picked at 6?
People keep saying that, but Ethan's preferred position in 6 (I have heard him say so) - it is where he has played most of his rugby.
I'd rather he was a bit faster if he's to play 7 and rather he was a bit taller if he's to play 6 - but, in a way, that's a function of Ardie being a short 8.
Ethan (and Luke Jacobson) are listed at the same height as Liam Messam, who went alright at 6 - but, of course he played in the same era as Read, who was an elite third lineout option.
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Windows97 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Now it maybe a case in that we simply don't have the cattle, and were doing the best with the players we have but if that's the case and we havn't got heavy ball runners were going to need some innovation and smart thinking to create space, somehow across the field.
Such a shame the South Africans are no longer in Super Rugby. It would have been very interesting to see how the Blues game this year went against them. That would have given us an indication on whether we have the cattle to play that way against the big boys.
would it though? i mean there are only 3 of the Blues pack selected in this test. And that number doesn't really chance if everyone is available. 3 of 13. The selectors clearly don't see the way the Blues play, and the players pulling it off as anything special, or the way they want to play. All it would have shown is the Blues pack can play Blues footy against anyone.
@mariner4life not to mention the lack of success the SA sides had at super level, regardless of thier now mythical forward dominance.
