Hillsborough
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SidBarret" data-cid="578859" data-time="1462976340">
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<p>Maybe I made my point poorly, but I'd bet my left nut that the <strong>none of the club chairman, safety officer or senior police officers that attended the safety briefings had watched a game at the lepping lane end in the twenty years leading up to the disaster</strong>. The point being that there is disconnect between the people making the decisions and the people living with the consequences. Part of this disconnect was caused by class issues I feel. </p>
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<p>Almost certainly true, the bold bit Sid but not relevant IMO. The examples had already been seen of how unfit for purpose many stadia were and definitely in the case of Hillsborough. The decisions made to both hold the tie there and the policing of the game had no bearing laid on them by lack of experience of such events. The experience was already far to obvious to anyone that had anything to do with crowd safety or the putting on of a public event. Sod all to do with class and all to do with greed, incompetence and lack of care.</p> -
<p>I think the point Sid is trying to make, which I've slightly missed, is that the FA in its ivory tower, the club chairmen looking at their balance sheets and the police chiefs surveying their patch had no direct experience of what it was like to be an average fan in danger of being crushed to death in a decrepit stadium, so they couldn't see what the problem was. But worse still, they wouldn't take an expert's view as gospel and do anything about it until it was too late.</p>
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<p>TBH, I don't really expect them to stand in the stands to get a feeling for what its like, but they should have taken notice of someone who knows what they're on about.</p> -
<p>100% agree Lui.</p>
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<p>Great stuff lads</p>
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<p>To me, there are almost 2 stories at play - the dreadful avoidable loss of life is one thing and history and indeed our own lives are marked by what I'll callously call "learning experiences"</p>
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<p>But by christ the thing that gets on my wick is the efforts those fluffybunnies went to to cover all this up and the terrible response to the victims and their families, for so long. Jesus that winds me up. Like the fiddlers at the BBC, examples need to be made and standards need to be set.</p>
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<p>Fucken 3rd world shit all that nonsense by authorities since 1989. That Coroner Popper seems to have escaped some scrutiny I think</p> -
About time
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Listening to the Daniel Morgan Murder podcast. From the same era, but London based. Major part of that is the links between the corrupt cops and the murdoch press. In that case using crime writer from News of the World to spread misinformation.
Can easily imagine similar colluding in this case using The Sun.
I wonder how much the merseyside boycott has cost News Ltd over the years?
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Listening to the Daniel Morgan Murder podcast. From the same era, but London based. Major part of that is the links between the corrupt cops and the murdoch press. In that case using crime writer from News of the World to spread misinformation.
Can easily imagine similar colluding in this case using The Sun.
I wonder how much the merseyside boycott has cost News Ltd over the years?
@Rapido said in Hillsborough:
Listening to the Daniel Morgan Murder podcast. From the same era, but London based. Major part of that is the links between the corrupt cops and the murdoch press. In that case using crime writer from News of the World to spread misinformation.
Can easily imagine similar colluding in this case using The Sun.
I wonder how much the merseyside boycott has cost News Ltd over the years?
Can you post a link to the podcast?
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Be prepared. Watch for the political cockroaches come out to lay blame for this.
@Catogrande said in Hillsborough:
Be prepared. Watch for the political cockroaches come out to lay blame for this.
And cover their arses.
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@Rapido said in Hillsborough:
Listening to the Daniel Morgan Murder podcast. From the same era, but London based. Major part of that is the links between the corrupt cops and the murdoch press. In that case using crime writer from News of the World to spread misinformation.
Can easily imagine similar colluding in this case using The Sun.
I wonder how much the merseyside boycott has cost News Ltd over the years?
Can you post a link to the podcast?
@jegga said in Hillsborough:
@Rapido said in Hillsborough:
Listening to the Daniel Morgan Murder podcast. From the same era, but London based. Major part of that is the links between the corrupt cops and the murdoch press. In that case using crime writer from News of the World to spread misinformation.
Can easily imagine similar colluding in this case using The Sun.
I wonder how much the merseyside boycott has cost News Ltd over the years?
Can you post a link to the podcast?
I listen via iTunes.
It's called Untold.But can listen here:
http://www.untoldmurder.com/eps/Technically. The podcast is a bit disjointed. Some things they couldn't reveal in series 1.
Some more stuff coming out now in series 2.
There are links to all sorts of shady stuff;
The Stephen Lawrence murder.
The fake sheik. -
I'm sure the Juventus fans would have a lot to say about all this after Liverpool fans murdered a large number of them in Heysel Stadium. Where are the criminal charges there?
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I'm sure the Juventus fans would have a lot to say about all this after Liverpool fans murdered a large number of them in Heysel Stadium. Where are the criminal charges there?
@Wreck-Diver said in Hillsborough:
I'm sure the Juventus fans would have a lot to say about all this after Liverpool fans murdered a large number of them in Heysel Stadium. Where are the criminal charges there?
There were lots prosecuted in that one including cops, justice was swift in comparison to Hillsborough
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I'm sure the Juventus fans would have a lot to say about all this after Liverpool fans murdered a large number of them in Heysel Stadium. Where are the criminal charges there?
@Wreck-Diver said in Hillsborough:
I'm sure the Juventus fans would have a lot to say about all this after Liverpool fans murdered a large number of them in Heysel Stadium. Where are the criminal charges there?
Not sure if you're taking the piss, but a bunch served time as a result.
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At the risk of going over many of these arguments again, the Taylor report and subsequent reports provide pretty good summaries of the events and where the blame lay (i.e. the Police and their management of the event) and these latest charges are more around the actions of the Police post-incident that have contributed to the suffering of the families.
In terms of blame, Sheffield Wednesday FC (the stadium had major issues and had had capacity reduced due to previous issues that were never properly addressed), the local Police (signed off the event and the capacity in addition to providing crowd management at the event), the Council (signing off the event and capacity) and the FA (ignoring the previous incidents at Hillsborough when arranging the event and not delaying the start of the match) all contributed to running an unsafe event.
The fans actions were largely in response to the situation presented - while I have no doubt there was some bad behaviour (based on attending games in modern UK grounds and seeing footage of historical games) it wasn't found to be a significant proportion of the crowd or beyond a level expected at that time, and if the Police had had an effective crowd management plan in-place, this tragedy could have been avoided.
