All Blacks v Argentina II

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@Landers92 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Lol Perenara

it makes me feel like im missing something obvious...what im looking for in players seems very very different to what paid professionals are looking for or they see things i dont...doesnt help my connection with the team

It can only be experience. Theres definitely nothing else

If Ratima et al cant get in now, after a loss, against Argentina at home, you would draw the inference that they wouldnt be thrown in against the Boks in their back garden.

So the likes of TJP and Beaudy are here to stay?

I can understand - though not necessarily agree with the logic of BB playing FB. They obviously want their FB to be a second playmaker and slot in a first 5. I assume this is the reason why Jordan is on the wing instead of FB also.

TJ I can't understand, it makes no sense to start him and then have an inexeprienced HB on the bench to close the game out. It seems a complete inverse of their useful skills and talents in the team.

Then again they also chose to put Sititi on at 6 a position he hadn't played in all year, where all his skills are negated while the game was in the balance - it doesn't exactly scream brilliant tactical substitutions are us.

Jet

Is this our 3rd different midfield combo in 3 consecutive tests?

Jet

Not much of a "looking to the future" in the team/squad so far under Razor.

Its the same old characters from the last few years just being coached by new management.

booboo

@Landers92 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

De Groot has hurt his neck

Ah, ok

brodean

@Jet

I think there's probably enough young guys in the wider squad.

In the last game the average age of the forwards was 28 and the average age of the backs was 27.

Contrast that to the average ages of the Springboks team that won the RWC - 32 in forwards and 30 in backs.

KiwiMurph

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Is this our 3rd different midfield combo in 3 consecutive tests?

Yes

booboo

Very short 2c.

I'm generally happy with that team except for 6-8, and their respective bench mates. More specifically 6 and 9 I suppose.

That's what makes it underwhelming for me.

I expect us to make less points conceding errors and thus win by p plenty.

It's not so much papering over the cracks as I think when we apply ourselves to the task we're better than them, considerably so.

But you can't give them gift wrapped points and hope to win. I hope they've worked on that and lineouts.

mariner4life

@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

All Blacks match-day 23 (Test caps in brackets)

Tamaiti Williams (8)

Codie Taylor (88) (Vice Captain)

Tyrel Lomax (35)

Tupou Vaa’i (29)

Sam Darry (2)

Ethan Blackadder (12)

Dalton Papali’i (35)

Ardie Savea (85) (Captain)

TJ Perenara (83)

Damian McKenzie (51)

Caleb Clarke (21)

Jordie Barrett (61) (Vice Captain)

Rieko Ioane (72)

Will Jordan (32)

Beauden Barrett (127)

Asafo Aumua (10)

Ofa Tu’ungafasi (60)

Fletcher Newell (17)

Josh Lord (5)

Sam Cane (95)

Cortez Ratima (3)

Anton Lienert-Brown (74)

Mark Tele’a (12)

Unavailable due to injury: Ethan de Groot (neck). Scott Barrett (finger surgery), Patrick Tuipulotu (calf), Stephen Perofeta (calf), Luke Jacobson (hamstring).

there is a bit of a story shown by this graphic. look a the test caps and look at the performance last week

BBarrett (127) ok game
Taylor (88) poor game
Savea (85) average game, bad error at bad time
Perenara (83) poor game
Reiko (72) came off bench barely touched it
JBarrett (61) poor game

In a youngish team our so-called experienced heads and leaders collectively stunk the joint out.

Meaning we were stuck with a bunch of 3rd year test players to sort everything out

Duluth

Canes4life

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Hope EDG injury isn't to serious, but more than happy with Tamaiti having a start.

TJP ... WTAF ( TJP makes this a very beatable team, Reece was the better than TJP at half last week)

Wouldn't have minded seeing ALB at 12 and Reiko at 13....

Like the CC change too.

Hopefully they bring Xavier Numia in if EDG is out for a while. He probably would have made the ABs if he didn't get injured towards the back end of Super. His form was definitely international level.

Landers92

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Landers92 experience at what? being average?

thats harsh, been great in the past....but surely experience doesnt trump form

Haha hey I completely agree. I don’t want TJ anywhere near the starting line up. Hes well and truly done as a test starter, also had the luxury of playing a lot in the black jersey when he would come on for Smith with 15-20mins to go when the All Blacks had a nice lead the majority of the time. Im just saying the only reason I can think of as to why he is starting is experience.

Jet

So EDG was pencilled in to start until he got injured.

Razor letting last weeks pack off the hook.

Crazy Horse

@Stag said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@frugby 5 out of the 23 are from the Crusaders, 3 from Canterbury. How could anyone come up with team Canterbury from that???

I can't be bothered looking for the post, but when I read the 'team Canterbury' comment I think I remember thinking it was in relation to the coaches. I could be wrong though.

Jet

@Duluth said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

"Beaudens playing good footie" he says.

Has he not seen the likes of Ben Smith, Muliaina, Dagg, Cullen playing fullback before?

The current iteration of Beauden Barrett is a milquetoast 15 by Allblack standards.

reprobate

@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@reprobate

What is it you think is different about Blackadder?

He and Jacobson are both utilities that are too small to be world class 6/8

Cane and Papali'i are both specialist 7s.

I see 3 of them as out and out tacklers, and EB as more of a link/support player.
Obviously Cane and DP seldom play anywhere other than 7, but they do not have the traits I want to see in a 7, because their running and passing and support play are all very limited.
Jacobson to me is a very similar player to those two, who happens to have played a lot more at 6 and 8 and is a moderately useful lineout forward, so he's a utility.
Blackadder is a utility, but I think his skillset is broader. You don't need both him and Jacobson. And I wouldn't want to play LJ and Cane/DP in the same team.

If it were me selecting, initially I wouldn't have picked Jacobson or Blackadder, and I wouldn't have added Cane to the squad. From what I've seen so far, I think Blackadder shows the most as loose forward cover so he is the one I'd keep.

I also think that our locked-in midget at 8 means that arguably 3 out of the 4 are superfluous.

Jet

So many of the answers from Razor are non committal. "bit of both".

I hope behind the scenes the rhetoric is more direct and there have been a few "Come to Jesus" speeches with the under performers and cozy cartel of incumbents.

Dan54

Not to concerned with team. Like the changes on wing , Ioane at 13 shrug, no probs. Like the idea of Cane 2 reasons his rock shoulders and leadership at end of game, Williams hope he carries a bit and uses body.

Jet

Cane confirmed in the interview he was covering 8 if Ardie goes down.

I mean... I like Cane and we need his starch but Sotutu must be sick as a parrot.

Ardie (who was in Japan) is being covered by an openside (who was in Japan).

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Canes4life

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Cane confirmed in the interview he was covering 8 if Ardie goes down.

I mean I like Cane and we need his starch but Sotutu must be sick as a parrot.

Oh god, the All Blacks really are going backwards.

Not only Sotutu, but Sititi, Iose and even Renton must be choking on their cornflakes.

Kiwiwomble

ive never really wanted to a jurno untill now....so many questions i would like to throw at them, actually make the say "yes, we think out of position X is better than super rugby form player Y"

The Silver Fern

All Blacks v Argentina II