All Blacks v Argentina II

KiwiMurph

Is this our 3rd different midfield combo in 3 consecutive tests?

Yes

booboo

Very short 2c.

I'm generally happy with that team except for 6-8, and their respective bench mates. More specifically 6 and 9 I suppose.

That's what makes it underwhelming for me.

I expect us to make less points conceding errors and thus win by p plenty.

It's not so much papering over the cracks as I think when we apply ourselves to the task we're better than them, considerably so.

But you can't give them gift wrapped points and hope to win. I hope they've worked on that and lineouts.

mariner4life

@Chester-Draws said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

All Blacks match-day 23 (Test caps in brackets)

Tamaiti Williams (8)

Codie Taylor (88) (Vice Captain)

Tyrel Lomax (35)

Tupou Vaa’i (29)

Sam Darry (2)

Ethan Blackadder (12)

Dalton Papali’i (35)

Ardie Savea (85) (Captain)

TJ Perenara (83)

Damian McKenzie (51)

Caleb Clarke (21)

Jordie Barrett (61) (Vice Captain)

Rieko Ioane (72)

Will Jordan (32)

Beauden Barrett (127)

Asafo Aumua (10)

Ofa Tu’ungafasi (60)

Fletcher Newell (17)

Josh Lord (5)

Sam Cane (95)

Cortez Ratima (3)

Anton Lienert-Brown (74)

Mark Tele’a (12)

Unavailable due to injury: Ethan de Groot (neck). Scott Barrett (finger surgery), Patrick Tuipulotu (calf), Stephen Perofeta (calf), Luke Jacobson (hamstring).

there is a bit of a story shown by this graphic. look a the test caps and look at the performance last week

BBarrett (127) ok game
Taylor (88) poor game
Savea (85) average game, bad error at bad time
Perenara (83) poor game
Reiko (72) came off bench barely touched it
JBarrett (61) poor game

In a youngish team our so-called experienced heads and leaders collectively stunk the joint out.

Meaning we were stuck with a bunch of 3rd year test players to sort everything out

Duluth

Canes4life

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Hope EDG injury isn't to serious, but more than happy with Tamaiti having a start.

TJP ... WTAF ( TJP makes this a very beatable team, Reece was the better than TJP at half last week)

Wouldn't have minded seeing ALB at 12 and Reiko at 13....

Like the CC change too.

Hopefully they bring Xavier Numia in if EDG is out for a while. He probably would have made the ABs if he didn't get injured towards the back end of Super. His form was definitely international level.

Landers92

@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@Landers92 experience at what? being average?

thats harsh, been great in the past....but surely experience doesnt trump form

Haha hey I completely agree. I don’t want TJ anywhere near the starting line up. Hes well and truly done as a test starter, also had the luxury of playing a lot in the black jersey when he would come on for Smith with 15-20mins to go when the All Blacks had a nice lead the majority of the time. Im just saying the only reason I can think of as to why he is starting is experience.

Jet

So EDG was pencilled in to start until he got injured.

Razor letting last weeks pack off the hook.

Crazy Horse

@Stag said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@frugby 5 out of the 23 are from the Crusaders, 3 from Canterbury. How could anyone come up with team Canterbury from that???

I can't be bothered looking for the post, but when I read the 'team Canterbury' comment I think I remember thinking it was in relation to the coaches. I could be wrong though.

Jet

@Duluth said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

"Beaudens playing good footie" he says.

Has he not seen the likes of Ben Smith, Muliaina, Dagg, Cullen playing fullback before?

The current iteration of Beauden Barrett is a milquetoast 15 by Allblack standards.

reprobate

@brodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

@reprobate

What is it you think is different about Blackadder?

He and Jacobson are both utilities that are too small to be world class 6/8

Cane and Papali'i are both specialist 7s.

I see 3 of them as out and out tacklers, and EB as more of a link/support player.
Obviously Cane and DP seldom play anywhere other than 7, but they do not have the traits I want to see in a 7, because their running and passing and support play are all very limited.
Jacobson to me is a very similar player to those two, who happens to have played a lot more at 6 and 8 and is a moderately useful lineout forward, so he's a utility.
Blackadder is a utility, but I think his skillset is broader. You don't need both him and Jacobson. And I wouldn't want to play LJ and Cane/DP in the same team.

If it were me selecting, initially I wouldn't have picked Jacobson or Blackadder, and I wouldn't have added Cane to the squad. From what I've seen so far, I think Blackadder shows the most as loose forward cover so he is the one I'd keep.

I also think that our locked-in midget at 8 means that arguably 3 out of the 4 are superfluous.

Jet

So many of the answers from Razor are non committal. "bit of both".

I hope behind the scenes the rhetoric is more direct and there have been a few "Come to Jesus" speeches with the under performers and cozy cartel of incumbents.

Dan54

Not to concerned with team. Like the changes on wing , Ioane at 13 shrug, no probs. Like the idea of Cane 2 reasons his rock shoulders and leadership at end of game, Williams hope he carries a bit and uses body.

Jet

Cane confirmed in the interview he was covering 8 if Ardie goes down.

I mean... I like Cane and we need his starch but Sotutu must be sick as a parrot.

Ardie (who was in Japan) is being covered by an openside (who was in Japan).

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Canes4life

@Jet said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

Cane confirmed in the interview he was covering 8 if Ardie goes down.

I mean I like Cane and we need his starch but Sotutu must be sick as a parrot.

Oh god, the All Blacks really are going backwards.

Not only Sotutu, but Sititi, Iose and even Renton must be choking on their cornflakes.

Kiwiwomble

ive never really wanted to a jurno untill now....so many questions i would like to throw at them, actually make the say "yes, we think out of position X is better than super rugby form player Y"

reprobate

I just really don't understand. After that performance, our reaction is to change 3 x outside backs. I don't mind those selections per se, but where is the accountability? The only forward change is through injury.
And if we are committed to this dipshit loose forward policy, then why did they pick Finau at all? Do they genuinely think he covers lock?
Also: way to take a very young guy, throw him in late to a losing side out of position and then drop him. Great management.

Bones

So my take on the changes in the backs points to quite a different style of play. Telea and Reece probably aren't a great pairing in that they spend a lot of time not on the wing - in particular at the back of a ruck. Clarke does it a bit, but not nearly so much and Jordan tends to inject himself one/two out. Bring on the pick n go winger when the defence is tired and out of shape makes more sense. Rieko and Jordie to actually run hard and straight to tire out said defence, the sweet feet midfielder on again when the defence isn't fresh.

I'm far from convinced Jordan offers anything more under the high ball though.

The selection of the loosies, which Razor is solely responsible for? Fuck a duck, he's trolling.

Canes4life

@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:

So my take on the changes in the backs points to quite a different style of play. Telea and Reece probably aren't a great pairing in that they spend a lot of time not on the wing - in particular at the back of a ruck. Clarke does it a bit, but not nearly so much and Jordan tends to inject himself one/two out. Bring on the pick n go winger when the defence is tired and out of shape makes more sense. Rieko and Jordie to actually run hard and straight to tire out said defence, the sweet feet midfielder on again when the defence isn't fresh.

I'm far from convinced Jordan offers anything more under the high ball though.

The selection of the loosies, which Razor is solely responsible for? Fuck a duck, he's trolling.

I really don't get that midfield selection, both of those guys are horribly out of form. I guess banking on out of form players to get the ABs out of a form slump is a great strategy.

Bones

@Canes4life I don't think either are playing horrible, something's just not clicking. Hopefully it'll click? Might be easier with wingers running lines off you rather than fucking about at the breakdown.

And if one is actually playing horrible then hook him for the form midfielder.

It is, however, an absolute piss take that Finau, Proctor, can't squeeze their way into a 23.

Duluth

This has the interview with Robertson posted earlier but also interviews with Cane, Williams & Ioane

The Silver Fern

All Blacks v Argentina II