Americas cup
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@Snowy said in Americas cup:
@nzzp said in Americas cup:
All the business cases had to be predicated on teh risk that we lost the cup. Then you're not hosting any more.
As I said.though the return would come if it was held a second time in NZ and the money was to give them a better chance of doing that,
Look, this will sound simplistic, but if that's the basis fo the business case, surely you'd contract to keep in NZ. I mean, it's $100M, this is the big time. In business, that's weak from central/local Govt.
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I remember seeing that. It was a technological marvel. KZ1 pushed the boundaries of traditional sail boats, their boat looked like aliens built it, with it's non-fabric rigid sail. Ahead of it's time, and according to the race rules we should have rammed and sunk it in the prestart, taken our penalty and sailed onto victory
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@Snowy check out the economic impact assessment too. Covid I suspect, but damn.
This evaluation has identified a net benefit to Auckland of hosting the 36th America’s Cup (AC36) of -$91.6
million (benefit-cost ratio of 0.85) and a net benefit to New Zealand (including Auckland) of -$156.1 million
(benefit-cost ratio of 0.79). These figures are based on financial impacts (represented by actual or expected
financial transactions) and non-financial impacts (unpriced social, cultural, or environmental effects).Table 1 is a dooozy
https://www.majorevents.govt.nz/dmsdocument/15674-36th-americas-cup-impact-evaluation-report
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@nzzp Cheers. QI read of the whole thing.
I do wish they wouldn't include non-quantifiable "stuff" like "Non-user benefits / Non-financial / $23.4 / Social value accruing to non-attendees (option value/existence value/national pride).
How do you really put a $ value on the national pride emotional response from by Trevor in Gore?
At least the report does separate them out, which obviously makes it an even worse decision. Especially if a second one isn't held here, but I wasn't getting into that, merely that TNZ acted in bad faith, hence my "theft" comment. I don't even mind the public money going in, I just don't like people running away with it.
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I remember seeing that. It was a technological marvel. KZ1 pushed the boundaries of traditional sail boats, their boat looked like aliens built it, with it's non-fabric rigid sail. Ahead of it's time, and according to the race rules we should have rammed and sunk it in the prestart, taken our penalty and sailed onto victory
@canefan said in Americas cup:
and according to the race rules we should have rammed and sunk it in the prestart,
and that right there is how you broaden the appeal. Allow ramming as a legit tactic.
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@canefan said in Americas cup:
and according to the race rules we should have rammed and sunk it in the prestart,
and that right there is how you broaden the appeal. Allow ramming as a legit tactic.
@mariner4life said in Americas cup:
@canefan said in Americas cup:
and according to the race rules we should have rammed and sunk it in the prestart,
and that right there is how you broaden the appeal. Allow ramming as a legit tactic.
At the time it felt like the design was against the spirit of the rules. But at the end of the day they just outsmarted us
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@canefan said in Americas cup:
and according to the race rules we should have rammed and sunk it in the prestart,
and that right there is how you broaden the appeal. Allow ramming as a legit tactic.
@mariner4life said in Americas cup:
@canefan said in Americas cup:
and according to the race rules we should have rammed and sunk it in the prestart,
and that right there is how you broaden the appeal. Allow ramming as a legit tactic.
boarding parties, proper sing across on ropes deal, then you have to work out how many extra people to take and if their extra weight is worth it
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@dogmeat said in Americas cup:
Nah @Snowy is spot on. ETNZ screwed Akl over massively and knowingly.
Akl were never going to get a return on the infrastructure investment they made for the last defence...
especially if they'd lost it...any business case can only have been made on one defence...and if it wasnt then it was a stupid fucking decision...but that would be on auckland council and not just ETNZ
and ETNZ cant be the whipping boys for covid fucked something up
@mariner4life said in Americas cup:
i did not have "kiwiwomble is an apologist for rich fluffybunnies fucking over NZ" on my bingo card
like to keep you on your toes, next week i'll be taking the "Trumps not that bad angle" in the US politics thread
@Kiwiwomble It was pretty obvious that as long as they kept the team together that TNZ defend easily. They were so far ahead of the competition in Bermuda and then they wrote the rules.
There was a Heads of Agreement for Akl to host this time too. Dalton weaseled out of it.
Clearly it should have been more watertight but it gives the lie to the myth that this defence is about anything other than money.
The venues shit, the racings shit but the cash register is humming. The TNZ CEO is personally doing quite nicely too.
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@mariner4life said in Americas cup:
@canefan said in Americas cup:
and according to the race rules we should have rammed and sunk it in the prestart,
and that right there is how you broaden the appeal. Allow ramming as a legit tactic.
boarding parties, proper sing across on ropes deal, then you have to work out how many extra people to take and if their extra weight is worth it
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@mariner4life said in Americas cup:
@canefan said in Americas cup:
and according to the race rules we should have rammed and sunk it in the prestart,
and that right there is how you broaden the appeal. Allow ramming as a legit tactic.
boarding parties, proper sing across on ropes deal
This is boat racing, not a Gilbert and Sullivan production.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@mariner4life said in Americas cup:
@canefan said in Americas cup:
and according to the race rules we should have rammed and sunk it in the prestart,
and that right there is how you broaden the appeal. Allow ramming as a legit tactic.
boarding parties, proper sing across on ropes deal
This is boat racing, not a Gilbert and Sullivan production.
@antipodean ....you do understand it was a joke dont you....a ridiculous suggestion...so out there its funny to even suggest it?.....wasn't actually suggesting it as a new rule....much like i dont believe allowing ramming was a serious suggestion
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@antipodean ....you do understand it was a joke dont you....a ridiculous suggestion...so out there its funny to even suggest it?.....wasn't actually suggesting it as a new rule....much like i dont believe allowing ramming was a serious suggestion
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@antipodean ....you do understand it was a joke dont you....a ridiculous suggestion...so out there its funny to even suggest it?.....wasn't actually suggesting it as a new rule....much like i dont believe allowing ramming was a serious suggestion
Take the time to read my post again. Slowly.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@antipodean ....you do understand it was a joke dont you....a ridiculous suggestion...so out there its funny to even suggest it?.....wasn't actually suggesting it as a new rule....much like i dont believe allowing ramming was a serious suggestion
Take the time to read my post again. Slowly.
@antipodean i did...so say its boat racing not a stage production....which is irrelevant when making a joke....you do ruin a lot of fun around here
actually i think you'll find the modern sailing boat doesnt have rigging that would allow a sailor to sing onto another boat....let alone the relative velocit....yada yada yada
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@antipodean i did...so say its boat racing not a stage production....which is irrelevant when making a joke....you do ruin a lot of fun around here
actually i think you'll find the modern sailing boat doesnt have rigging that would allow a sailor to sing onto another boat....let alone the relative velocit....yada yada yada
@Kiwiwomble said in Americas cup:
@antipodean i did...so say its boat racing not a stage production....which is irrelevant when making a joke....you do ruin a lot of fun around here
swing versus sing...
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....thats on me
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Just a note too though - the viaduct harbour was incredible compared to what was there prior to the 2000 defence The value generated was there.
@Snowy remember only $40M went to TNZ - the other $348M was infrastructure or Council/govt spending
The funniest thing about that little exchange was that the same error was missed / made twice.
@nzzp said in Americas cup:
@Snowy remember only $40M went to TNZ - the other $348M was infrastructure or Council/govt spending.
Yes, aware of that, it's in the impact report. Relevant to cost as well though, how much was borrowed due to immediacy?
"The public sector investment in AC36 of $348.4 million over four years (NPV of $370.9 million) was significantly
higher than the $200 million included in the independent economic projection of the costs and benefits of
hosting AC36. This variance was mainly caused by several planned capital projects being brought forward by
Auckland Council to align with AC36 projects"Doesn't change anything wrt TNZ. It could be said that it is worse, it was all changed and advanced for them and the buggered off anyway.
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For whatever reason this thread made me go back to watch footage of One Australia sinking back in 95. Hilarious at the time but how tf did that even happen?
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Americas cup:
For whatever reason this thread made me go back to watch footage of One Australia sinking back in 95. Hilarious at the time but how tf did that even happen?
Came down to karma, if you believe in that. One Australia broke the rules by essentially building three boats, one under the Australian Challenge which violated the 2 boat rule per syndicate.
Anyways, AUS-35 was built without support beams running fore and aft and relied on the mast an keel bulkhead. Apparently during the race the primary winch failed and they used the running backstay winch pulling the bow and stern together. Interestingly, the hull without the rigging and the keel etc weighed only 1.1 tonnes. The keel and bulb weighed 17 tonnes.
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@W32 said in Americas cup:
Anyone here watching? Not a big fan of these boats, but some good racing today
I went to the last A Cup and loved it. Today's preliminary regatta final against Lunna Rossa was awesome to watch and I expect something similar as we eventually role around to the A Cup.
Nice to seal a regatta win. I'm not a big fan of us taking part in the Louis Vuitton regatta, I feel we should give all the other team's their dues and let them battle it out in four days time.
@Canes4life said in Americas cup:
@W32 said in Americas cup:
Anyone here watching? Not a big fan of these boats, but some good racing today
I went to the last A Cup and loved it. Today's preliminary regatta final against Lunna Rossa was awesome to watch and I expect something similar as we eventually role around to the A Cup.
Nice to seal a regatta win. I'm not a big fan of us taking part in the Louis Vuitton regatta, I feel we should give all the other team's their dues and let them battle it out in four days time.
I think it's a result of trying to keep costs down. Each team is allowed one boat. The challengers can race in a preliminary regatta whilst the defender will have no one to race and trial against.
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@W32 said in Americas cup:
Anyone here watching? Not a big fan of these boats, but some good racing today
I love the boats but for the most part the racing stinks. Hopefully the LV Cup will see the teams actually racing and some closer contests rather than win the start and win by 700m.
I'd love to see the boats be brought back into the water but in high powered 90 footers with light displacement similar to what Alinghi proposed had they defended back in 2010.
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The funniest thing about that little exchange was that the same error was missed / made twice.
@nzzp said in Americas cup:
@Snowy remember only $40M went to TNZ - the other $348M was infrastructure or Council/govt spending.
Yes, aware of that, it's in the impact report. Relevant to cost as well though, how much was borrowed due to immediacy?
"The public sector investment in AC36 of $348.4 million over four years (NPV of $370.9 million) was significantly
higher than the $200 million included in the independent economic projection of the costs and benefits of
hosting AC36. This variance was mainly caused by several planned capital projects being brought forward by
Auckland Council to align with AC36 projects"Doesn't change anything wrt TNZ. It could be said that it is worse, it was all changed and advanced for them and the buggered off anyway.
@Snowy said in Americas cup:
The funniest thing about that little exchange was that the same error was missed / made twice.
It had me wondering if singing across the ropes was actually a sailing term that I had never heard of.
