World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game
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Lots of complaints this Autumn about YC for rugby 'incidents' where there's clumsy, head contact.
Ruining the game, ruining the spectacle.
I'd argue that YCing a player after a dominant scrum has been awarded a penalty try ruins the game far more.
Defending team is down to 14 and the whole match gets blown out in less than 10 mins.
Exactly what happened when Scotland were 12-0 ahead and Portugal after weathering the early storm were called back for a knock on when a certain intercept try was on.
Portugal getting pumped in the scrum and concede Penalty Try and YC.
10 mins later it's 33-0
@MiketheSnow are we at the point where kicking penalties just doesn't give enough points to the opposition to act as a deterrent? I do agree with you, but you need a way to deal with negative repeat infringements preventing tries. Traditionally that's simply the points you get by kicking penalties.
We are at the point where playing for a card is good tactics, and that's a bit shit. -
@MiketheSnow are we at the point where kicking penalties just doesn't give enough points to the opposition to act as a deterrent? I do agree with you, but you need a way to deal with negative repeat infringements preventing tries. Traditionally that's simply the points you get by kicking penalties.
We are at the point where playing for a card is good tactics, and that's a bit shit.@reprobate although some of those scrum ones are not due to cynical play, just a lesser player/pack, in which case it is highly likely you are already gonna lose.
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@reprobate although some of those scrum ones are not due to cynical play, just a lesser player/pack, in which case it is highly likely you are already gonna lose.
@taniwharugby said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
@reprobate although some of those scrum ones are not due to cynical play, just a lesser player/pack, in which case it is highly likely you are already gonna lose.
Like all this stuff it is a bit of a balancing act - you don't want to have teams playing with 14 men and then 13 simply because they aren't good enough at scrummaging - conversely you don't want to under-penalise it and allow the tactic of a team playing a front row that can't scrum but are effectively 3 x extra loose forwards. Fatties are important, and if I want to watch league I'll do that (I don't).
The key may well be just the value of a penalty kick - is 3 points every time enough? I think we're pretty close to saying no it's not - teams will turn down 3 points and scrum again and again playing for cards. Or looking for repeat infringements close to the line and then a card. I don't know the numbers, but I assume a YC on average is worth more than 3 points - and there is (subconscious or deliberate I'm not sure) a reset in the referee's mind when the team being offended against scores points.
Ireland were whistled off the park against us and we kicked our goals very accurately, but they were still within striking distance late in the game despite being well outplayed, and that scenario isn't unusual. If they had been given a YC for the repeat infringements, I don't think they would have been that close - but I'd much rather watch 15 on 15. It's all been said before, but the reason for that is purely because reffing is fucking hard, so the more major decisions there are in a game the more impact the ref has - which isn't what we want. The carding is so inconsistent that you end up with that inconsistency having a major impact on game results - see the RWC final for example. -
Points or card
Not both
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The Law of Unintended Consequences
'We need to speed up the game'
'How about not straight at the line out when the defending team doesn't compete is play on?'
'Great. Implement it'
Most defending teams won't go up at a 5m line out as they wait for the attacking catcher to come back to earth so they can execute a legal counter maul
So there's no onus on the hooker to throw straight which creates a greater chance of securing possession and setting up an impregnable maul
This has increased the likelihood of the attacking team scoring and because they're in a stronger position (formation wise) more likelihood that the defending team will commit a foul resulting in a Penalty Try and/or YC.
The review by ref and TMO has actually slowed the game down and made the lineout less of a contest.
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The Law of Unintended Consequences
'We need to speed up the game'
'How about not straight at the line out when the defending team doesn't compete is play on?'
'Great. Implement it'
Most defending teams won't go up at a 5m line out as they wait for the attacking catcher to come back to earth so they can execute a legal counter maul
So there's no onus on the hooker to throw straight which creates a greater chance of securing possession and setting up an impregnable maul
This has increased the likelihood of the attacking team scoring and because they're in a stronger position (formation wise) more likelihood that the defending team will commit a foul resulting in a Penalty Try and/or YC.
The review by ref and TMO has actually slowed the game down and made the lineout less of a contest.
@MiketheSnow That rule change is fucking dumb, I don't know what they're trying to achieve, but if it is speeding the game up by avoiding a stoppage then just change it to a free-kick for not straight, no lineout or scrum. Quicker, doesn't fuck other things up, and doesn't need an extra determination by refs who already can't cope with the complexity of the game.
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@reprobate said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
Oh and enforce a time limit on the free-kick.
And scrums, emphasis on enforce
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@reprobate said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
Oh and enforce a time limit on the free-kick.
And scrums, emphasis on enforce
@Machpants said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
enforce
I think if they emphasised that on many existing rules, it would clean things up a bit
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The only way to have 30 second scrums is to start blowing penalites if teams are taking too long...good luck there...
@Windows97 said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
The only way to have 30 second scrums is to start blowing penalites if teams are taking too long...good luck there...
Or stop the clock like they do in league. Make the fatties play every second they waste
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@Windows97 said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
The only way to have 30 second scrums is to start blowing penalites if teams are taking too long...good luck there...
Or stop the clock like they do in league. Make the fatties play every second they waste
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@canefan That is the other option, but it doesn't exactly speed up the game i.e. gets the ball back in play quicker, just results in less game-time wasted.
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@Windows97 Yeah, better than nothing, but they still get a rest. I'd be all in favour of just hammering any time-wasting with free-kicks. The game would change overnight for the better.
@reprobate said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
@Windows97 Yeah, better than nothing, but they still get a rest. I'd be all in favour of just hammering any time-wasting with free-kicks. The game would change overnight for the better.
Time limit to be ready to engage. If either of the packs don't form up in time they concede a free kick
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@reprobate said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
@Windows97 Yeah, better than nothing, but they still get a rest. I'd be all in favour of just hammering any time-wasting with free-kicks. The game would change overnight for the better.
Time limit to be ready to engage. If either of the packs don't form up in time they concede a free kick
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@canefan and if you're not ready to engage because of "injury" that player leaves the field.
@reprobate said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
@canefan and if you're not ready to engage because of "injury" that player leaves the field.
I'm a big fan of the football rule that an injured player be removed from the field to receive treatment while the game continues, and that player can't return until the next stoppage
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Lots of complaints this Autumn about YC for rugby 'incidents' where there's clumsy, head contact.
Ruining the game, ruining the spectacle.
I'd argue that YCing a player after a dominant scrum has been awarded a penalty try ruins the game far more.
Defending team is down to 14 and the whole match gets blown out in less than 10 mins.
Exactly what happened when Scotland were 12-0 ahead and Portugal after weathering the early storm were called back for a knock on when a certain intercept try was on.
Portugal getting pumped in the scrum and concede Penalty Try and YC.
10 mins later it's 33-0
@MiketheSnow
totally agree
how it is done now is just stupid, like kicking someone when they are down . . . nicethe ref should actually go for the YC quicker, and get the infringing defender off the field
and when the team with the man advantage scores, the YC player should then come back on
the YC team would then be back to full strength after the score, not a man down!net result being; because the ref goes for the YC quicker, i thnk defenders will infringe less, and the team with momentum will score quicker, speeding the whole game up
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@MiketheSnow
totally agree
how it is done now is just stupid, like kicking someone when they are down . . . nicethe ref should actually go for the YC quicker, and get the infringing defender off the field
and when the team with the man advantage scores, the YC player should then come back on
the YC team would then be back to full strength after the score, not a man down!net result being; because the ref goes for the YC quicker, i thnk defenders will infringe less, and the team with momentum will score quicker, speeding the whole game up
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yeah a lot of the injuries and f'ing about at scrum time is to give the fat guys a rest
i heard a top level pro soccer player recently say that a lot of players going down injured in soccer is just to give everyone a rest, and not just to get a free kick or someone YC'dplayers trying to get someone YC'd is an extremly unattractive watch
in ice hockey you can get binned for enhancement, making it a risky strategy
the transgressor and the enhancer can both be binned at the same time
rugby officials would probably only have do that a couple times and most of it would be out of the gameand here is a radical thought . . . why not penalise the dominant scrum when it turns into a mess
e.g. anywhere else on the field players going headfirst into the ground is going to get someone RC'd
a dominant frontrow deliberately forcing the oppostion to collapse has to be dangerous play
if a team is that dominant the resonsibilty is on them prevent that, not do it! -
yeah a lot of the injuries and f'ing about at scrum time is to give the fat guys a rest
i heard a top level pro soccer player recently say that a lot of players going down injured in soccer is just to give everyone a rest, and not just to get a free kick or someone YC'dplayers trying to get someone YC'd is an extremly unattractive watch
in ice hockey you can get binned for enhancement, making it a risky strategy
the transgressor and the enhancer can both be binned at the same time
rugby officials would probably only have do that a couple times and most of it would be out of the gameand here is a radical thought . . . why not penalise the dominant scrum when it turns into a mess
e.g. anywhere else on the field players going headfirst into the ground is going to get someone RC'd
a dominant frontrow deliberately forcing the oppostion to collapse has to be dangerous play
if a team is that dominant the resonsibilty is on them prevent that, not do it!@mohikamo said in World Rugby confirms changes to be implemented across the global game:
yeah a lot of the injuries and f'ing about at scrum time is to give the fat guys a rest
i heard a top level pro soccer player recently say that a lot of players going down injured in soccer is just to give everyone a rest, and not just to get a free kick or someone YC'dplayers trying to get someone YC'd is an extremly unattractive watch
in ice hockey you can get binned for enhancement, making it a risky strategy
the transgressor and the enhancer can both be binned at the same time
rugby officials would probably only have do that a couple times and most of it would be out of the gameand here is a radical thought . . . why not penalise the dominant scrum when it turns into a mess
e.g. anywhere else on the field players going headfirst into the ground is going to get someone RC'd
a dominant frontrow deliberately forcing the oppostion to collapse has to be dangerous play
if a team is that dominant the resonsibilty is on them prevent that, not do it!You post some good stuff man
But this ain’t an example of it
This is some batshit crazy bullshit
