All Blacks vs Ireland
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The fact is Ireland have long been put on a completely undeserved pedestal by NZ's rugby media (and many people on here) simply because they beat Foster's shambles of a team (pre-Ryan/Schmidt) in 2021 and 2022 home series.
In reality, they're not a hugely talented side, they are full of plodders that wouldn't get anywhere near an All Black 15.
They have relied on the existing cohesion of Leinster and their streamlined and well structured high performance pathways and streamlined coaching at all levels to get to where they have - not x factor players.
France, South Africa, and even England have much more talented squads on paper. and their team composition & style of game in my opinion pose a greater threat to us than Ireland (even though they're ranked No1.)
In Summary, NZ rugby fans/media gave Ireland far too much respect in recent years and Foster is much to blame.
I'm glad we can finally bring this chapter to a close - they are overrated & always have been, especially on here.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Ireland's error-strewn performance
13 penalties conceded
30 missed tackles
21 handling errors
11 turnovers conceded
5 rucks lost
3 line-outs lost
1 scrum lostGreat defence does that to the opposition.
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Ireland's error-strewn performance
13 penalties conceded
30 missed tackles
21 handling errors
11 turnovers conceded
5 rucks lost
3 line-outs lost
1 scrum lostGreat defence does that to the opposition.
I remember the look of confusion and panic on the faces of our midfield when the Irish ran through us to claim the series win in NZ. Rieko and JB slammed the door on them this time
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@Frank said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Shane Horgan - "South Africa on their day would have pumped this All Blacks team tonight"
Is he trying to say we beat a poor Ireland side by not playing that great ourselves?
What would they have done too this Irish team then?
For large parts of that game we were pretty frustrating, so if Shane Horgan thinks we pulled out a miracle performance then it is just fanciful.
Lot of growth to come still in this All Black side. Now to go to Paris and stop the rot against France. If we can do that then this team can really kick on next year.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Jordan's strike rate is absolutely incredible. Ireland contained him well overall but he just always manages to find a way to get over the try-line - Cullen like in that regard.
Currently has the second highest strike rate (tries per game) of any player with more than 30 tries - behind Ohata (who comes with the minnow caveat).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_leading_rugby_union_test_try_scorers
Will doubtless come back to the pack a bit toward the end of his career, but a decent shot not just being NZ's highest try scorer, but all time - although that Georgian will doubtless score lots more.
Will has drawn level with Jonah and Rieko today, played fractionally under half Rieko's games.
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Jordan's strike rate is absolutely incredible. Ireland contained him well overall but he just always manages to find a way to get over the try-line - Cullen like in that regard.
Currently has the second highest strike rate (tries per game) of any player with more than 30 tries - behind Ohata (who comes with the minnow caveat).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_leading_rugby_union_test_try_scorers
Will doubtless come back to the pack a bit toward the end of his career, but a decent shot not just being NZ's highest try scorer, but all time - although that Georgian will doubtless score lots more.
Will has drawn level with Jonah and Rieko today, played fractionally under half Rieko's games.
If Reiko has stayed on the wing, no doubt he would be the AB record holder by now…
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The fact is Ireland have long been put on a completely undeserved pedestal by NZ's rugby media (and many people on here) simply because they beat Foster's shambles of a team (pre-Ryan/Schmidt) in 2021 and 2022 home series.
In reality, they're not a hugely talented side, they are full of plodders that wouldn't get anywhere near an All Black 15.
They have relied on the existing cohesion of Leinster and their streamlined and well structured high performance pathways and streamlined coaching at all levels to get to where they have - not x factor players.
France, South Africa, and even England have much more talented squads on paper. and their team composition & style of game in my opinion pose a greater threat to us than Ireland (even though they're ranked No1.)
In Summary, NZ rugby fans/media gave Ireland far too much respect in recent years and Foster is much to blame.
I'm glad we can finally bring this chapter to a close - they are overrated & always have been, especially on here.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
The fact is Ireland have long been put on a completely undeserved pedestal by NZ's rugby media (and many people on here) simply because they beat Foster's shambles of a team (pre-Ryan/Schmidt) in 2021 and 2022 series.
In reality, they're not a hugely talented side, they are full of plodders that wouldn't get anywhere near an All Black 15. They have relied on the existing cohesion of Leinster and their streamlined pathways and well structured high performance pathways and streamlined coaching at all levels to get to where they have - not x factor players.
France, South Africa, and even England have much more talented squads on paper. and their team composition & style of game in my opinion pose a greater threat to us than Ireland (even though they're ranked No1.)
In Summary, NZ rugby fans/media gave Ireland far too much respect in recent years and Foster is to blame.
I'm glad we can finally bring this chapter to a close - they are overrated & always have been, especially on here.
I'm not so sure that is the whole story.
They have lost their RWC generals which would wound any side but they are so well-coached they'll stay competitive. Whether they now have that sting in their tail like they did in 2022-2023 is another story. -
I was very happy with that grinding win. I loved the fact that when they kept infringing we just kept piling on the points.
The new following kick interpretations are doing my head in. Jordie ran a straight line to the ball and got pinged. Then for one kick Telea essentially had to zig zag around Irishmen, whereas last week the ref was calling out make a path. WTF is going on?
Why do the NH have fresh out of film school directors for their footage? I don't want to see a behind tracking shot of the kick off. Also, the Irish coverage is as bad as Sky when it comes to replay. A call is made, then a break for the scrum, rather than show us the actual replay so we can see why the scrum was ordered they go around all the players for a minute or so.
Why is the NH game built around decoys? Have they had a coaching clinic from Deans recently entitled "My best back plays from when I was the greatest Crusader coach"?
For as much as the Irish like to wank on about how they don't boo kicks they do a fair bit of booing during the game. Come down from your moral high ground, it's just cultural to not boo when kicking.
Have only read a few pages back but sounds like peeps were complaining about DMac during the match - WTF???
Scooter getting a lot of hype, I think it's his best game of the year, but he didn't shade the other two. I guess the hype is a reflection of just how poor in comparison to his usual form he's been this year.
It looks like we may have turned a corner, I hope so.
Wow, a lot of grumpy stuff in that post, when I'm really happy with the win.
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
I was very happy with that grinding win. I loved the fact that when they kept infringing we just kept piling on the points.
The new following kick interpretations are doing my head in. Jordie ran a straight line to the ball and got pinged. Then for one kick Telea essentially had to zig zag around Irishmen, whereas last week the ref was calling out make a path. WTF is going on?
That penalty against jordie must have been a wrong call by berry, because if that was not allowed, rugby is going to be kickby. Box kicks will be everywhere
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@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
I was very happy with that grinding win. I loved the fact that when they kept infringing we just kept piling on the points.
The new following kick interpretations are doing my head in. Jordie ran a straight line to the ball and got pinged. Then for one kick Telea essentially had to zig zag around Irishmen, whereas last week the ref was calling out make a path. WTF is going on?
That penalty against jordie must have been a wrong call by berry, because if that was not allowed, rugby is going to be kickby. Box kicks will be everywhere
@Tordah said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
I was very happy with that grinding win. I loved the fact that when they kept infringing we just kept piling on the points.
The new following kick interpretations are doing my head in. Jordie ran a straight line to the ball and got pinged. Then for one kick Telea essentially had to zig zag around Irishmen, whereas last week the ref was calling out make a path. WTF is going on?
That penalty against jordie must have been a wrong call by berry, because if that was not allowed, rugby is going to be kickby. Box kicks will be everywhere
We’ve seen an increasing amount of Hollywood dives from the Boks in this area, under the old rules.
Under these new rules, this will go into overdrive. It will be like the golden age of Hollywood under Rassie!
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A lot of negativity about Ratima on here but, on balance, he was fine. He had the worst of the conditions and the breakdown. Ireland did a job flopping over and killing our ruck ball in the first half that made our ruck ball slow and scrappy. They also timed their second shove into the ruck well, to cause maximum disruption and often from the side.
Berry obviously let them get away with it. But, more inexplicably, had a habit of calling "use it" while the ball was still buried under an Irish player, rather than when it was actually available at the back of the ruck.
We were consistently a man short at each ruck, and it was noticeable how many times in the first half we didn't have a halfback because Ratima had to go into the ruck and win the ball.
All of this meant the ball was slow and scrappy. Ratima should have handled this better on a few occasions, but it's clear he's just not use to dealing with that kind of ball in those conditions.
All of that said, his quick delivery and sniping threat were key to all of our decent attack in the first half.
Cam looked better when he came on, and far less flustered than Ratima, but he also got a relative armchair ride. He's probably more robust an able to handle the slow and scrappy ball, however.
I still think Ratima's pass is marginally quicker and he may be more suited to coming on late when the ruck speed is quicker and there's less pressure on the breakdown from the opposition. -
This headline cracked me up ..!
Gavin Mairs Daily Telegrah
Its seems reports of the All Blacks’ demise have been greatly exaggerated. 🤭 -
Was that our best performance with our discipline? Makes a difference when we aren’t being pinged every couple of minutes with silly penalties.
I though Barrett’s penalty and YC was pretty unlucky
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Don't forget we took the Raeburn Shield too
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A lot of negativity about Ratima on here but, on balance, he was fine. He had the worst of the conditions and the breakdown. Ireland did a job flopping over and killing our ruck ball in the first half that made our ruck ball slow and scrappy. They also timed their second shove into the ruck well, to cause maximum disruption and often from the side.
Berry obviously let them get away with it. But, more inexplicably, had a habit of calling "use it" while the ball was still buried under an Irish player, rather than when it was actually available at the back of the ruck.
We were consistently a man short at each ruck, and it was noticeable how many times in the first half we didn't have a halfback because Ratima had to go into the ruck and win the ball.
All of this meant the ball was slow and scrappy. Ratima should have handled this better on a few occasions, but it's clear he's just not use to dealing with that kind of ball in those conditions.
All of that said, his quick delivery and sniping threat were key to all of our decent attack in the first half.
Cam looked better when he came on, and far less flustered than Ratima, but he also got a relative armchair ride. He's probably more robust an able to handle the slow and scrappy ball, however.
I still think Ratima's pass is marginally quicker and he may be more suited to coming on late when the ruck speed is quicker and there's less pressure on the breakdown from the opposition.@junior said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
A lot of negativity about Fatima on here but, on balance, he was fine. He had the worst of the conditions and the breakdown. Ireland did a job flopping over and killing our ruck ball in the first half that made our ruck ball slow and scrappy. They also timed their second shove into the ruck well, to cause maximum disruption and often from the side.
Berry obviously let them get away with it. But, more inexplicably, had a habit of calling "use it" while the ball was still buried under an Irish player, rather than when it was actually available at the back of the ruck.
We were consistently a man short at each ruck, and it was noticeable how many times in the first half we didn't have a halfback because Ratima had to go into the ruck and win the ball.
All of this meant the ball was slow and scrappy. Ratima should have handled this better on a few occasions, but it's clear he's just not use to dealing with that kind of ball in those conditions.
All of that said, his quick delivery and sniping threat were key to all of our decent attack in the first half.
Cam looked better when he came on, and far less flustered than Ratima, but he also got a relative armchair ride. He's probably more robust an able to handle the slow and scrappy ball, however.
I still think Ratima's pass is marginally quicker and he may be more suited to coming on late when the ruck speed is quicker and there's less pressure on the breakdown from the opposition.100% mate, great post which I fully agree with. Nic Berry's poor officiating at breakdown time really sold Ratima down the river. Yes, he probably could have slowed play down a bit and allow cleaners to protect him on a couple of occasions whilst trying to play up tempo in tough conditions and play a bit closer to the ruck, but man it was tough out there for a young halfback. Ball was all over the place, players lying all over the ball getting unpunished, it was really challenging for him but he fought bravely for 50 mins and as you said, Roigard came on where things were a lot easier as Berry actually decided to penalize a tiring Irish pack that was flopping all over the ball and played behind a far more effective ABs bench that started to dominate the last quarter of the game.
Being a starting 9 in big tests is a tough task. Ratima was ok, and will learn plenty from it.
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Ireland will be hugely disappointed with their performance. So many unforced errors and so many silly infringements, they even got away with a bit at ruck time so the penalty count could have been even worse for them. That's the least accurate performance I have seen from them in a long time, though admittedly I don't watch them very often.
For the ABs - lots of positives after a win in enemy territory like that.
- Sititi is the real deal, he's either been very good or outstanding every time he has started. Today he was very good against a big Irish pack - at 22 that is quite incredible. The start he has had to his test career reminds me of the way the GOAT started... just seems made for it.
- DMac's clearances alone make him our best bet at 10 and he was also very good in all aspects of his play. Best 10 we have had since DC IMO.
- Rieko was awesome on defense and at ruck time, and always dangerous with the ball in hand holding a lot of attention.
- Our bomb squad made an immediate difference, I was calling for them to be brought on with Roigard at the 50 minute mark and I think if they were we could have arrested control a bit sooner. But we have the makings of a bench that is 'impact' instead of 'injury cover' there.
- SB, Vaa'i and PT locking combo is as good as any in the world. PT has really come of age as a leader after a standout Super season.
- Aumua was a beast at hooker, starting to realise his potential. Had an impact in all facets - ruck time, defense, ball in hand and solid at set piece bar one not straight, which under the new rules shouldn't have been called anyway.
I still think we are making too many errors and poor decisions that let the other side back in though - Ireland squandered a lot of opportunities in that 2nd 40 with unforced errors. But overall a step in the right direction, particularly with the bench closing out the game which has been absent all season.
@No-Quarter
One thing we didn't do well was running the ball from deep. The odds of running through those green fullas coming at us was low and we got caught behind the gain line. -
Clarke had a good game
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The fact is Ireland have long been put on a completely undeserved pedestal by NZ's rugby media (and many people on here) simply because they beat Foster's shambles of a team (pre-Ryan/Schmidt) in 2021 and 2022 home series.
In reality, they're not a hugely talented side, they are full of plodders that wouldn't get anywhere near an All Black 15.
They have relied on the existing cohesion of Leinster and their streamlined and well structured high performance pathways and streamlined coaching at all levels to get to where they have - not x factor players.
France, South Africa, and even England have much more talented squads on paper. and their team composition & style of game in my opinion pose a greater threat to us than Ireland (even though they're ranked No1.)
In Summary, NZ rugby fans/media gave Ireland far too much respect in recent years and Foster is much to blame.
I'm glad we can finally bring this chapter to a close - they are overrated & always have been, especially on here.
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
The fact is Ireland have long been put on a completely undeserved pedestal by NZ's rugby media (and many people on here) simply because they beat Foster's shambles of a team (pre-Ryan/Schmidt) in 2021 and 2022 home series.
In reality, they're not a hugely talented side, they are full of plodders that wouldn't get anywhere near an All Black 15.
They have relied on the existing cohesion of Leinster and their streamlined and well structured high performance pathways and streamlined coaching at all levels to get to where they have - not x factor players.
France, South Africa, and even England have much more talented squads on paper. and their team composition & style of game in my opinion pose a greater threat to us than Ireland (even though they're ranked No1.)
In Summary, NZ rugby fans/media gave Ireland far too much respect in recent years and Foster is much to blame.
I'm glad we can finally bring this chapter to a close - they are overrated & always have been, especially on here.
At times Ireland have been excellent. They were pretty good in NZ. But they need to refresh their side. And this without SH project players, Lowe, Aki and JGP should be the last of the Te Ireland whanau.
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That Jordan try in the corner DMac threw the cut out pass to Sititi and the ball landed on the ground in front of him. A great piece of skill to gather it and shift it on under pressure.
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That Jordan try in the corner DMac threw the cut out pass to Sititi and the ball landed on the ground in front of him. A great piece of skill to gather it and shift it on under pressure.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
That Jordan try in the corner DMac threw the cut out pass to Sititi and the ball landed on the ground in front of him. A great piece of skill to gather it and shift it on under pressure.
Likewise Aumua to take the ball off the bounce and shift to Jordan
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
That Jordan try in the corner DMac threw the cut out pass to Sititi and the ball landed on the ground in front of him. A great piece of skill to gather it and shift it on under pressure.
Likewise Aumua to take the ball off the bounce and shift to Jordan
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
That Jordan try in the corner DMac threw the cut out pass to Sititi and the ball landed on the ground in front of him. A great piece of skill to gather it and shift it on under pressure.
Likewise Aumua to take the ball off the bounce and shift to Jordan
Outside back-esque.
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At the end of the day the NZers played well. On both sides.
The Australian, not so much.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
At the end of the day the NZers played well. On both sides.
The Australian, not so much.Thought Hansen went OK
