All Blacks vs Ireland
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@mariner4life it’s fair to say that Scooter hasn’t been in the form he was from late 2022-23RWC where he was our best performing lock. Whether it’s the weight of being captain or not having one of two AB legends right there, but he is well down on the level of impact.
Still does the right stuff very well but he was doing that plus more last year.
he's solidly grafting away in the tough stuff, but you are right, it's the bigger impacts that we're not seeing. I do wonder if he is no longer playing on the edge because of the "c" beside his name.
I don't think he is working as captain at the moment.
Captaincy plus previous cards may well be the reason yeah.
If he's making the decisions like the tap instead of scrum, and short goal line drop out, then I'd rather have someone else do the job. Lineout options have been mentioned and there is also the issue of the poor finishes which has to have on field leadership as a potential cause.
The only other option at the time was probably Ardie, and we'd be having the same conversation or worse I think.The idea for the short goal line drop out may have come from league. Apparently the stats in League say a team is better off going for a short contestable kick rather than a long one that automatically hands the ball over. I know there are other variables at play in Union but I have been wondering if we would see it.
I'm not opposed to taking the short drop-out in itself - but what we did is take it, win the ball, and then kick downfield making the same ground that we would have from a long drop-out. That's just all added risk for zero extra reward.
Yeah and that's what I was I getting at when I mentioned other variables. Like, what do you do if you win it back? Like you said the outcome was the same as kicking it deep anyway. I can't imagine teams would be too interested in running it from their own line unless it is a last throw of the dice, so the only benefit I can think of is teams kicking it out and defending from a line-out. And that's not necessarily ideal.
@Crazy-Horse I guess if you win it back, there's a higher chance of catching the opposition out, with a staggered defence and it's not uncommon to make good yards off a regathered restart. If you don't, then kick it deep for what would have been the result anyway?
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@Mauss losing credibility was a bit harsh. Am enjoying your analysis. But Scooter at 6 fills me with all the yuckies.
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@Crazy-Horse I guess if you win it back, there's a higher chance of catching the opposition out, with a staggered defence and it's not uncommon to make good yards off a regathered restart. If you don't, then kick it deep for what would have been the result anyway?
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Crazy-Horse I guess if you win it back, there's a higher chance of catching the opposition out, with a staggered defence and it's not uncommon to make good yards off a regathered restart. If you don't, then kick it deep for what would have been the result anyway?
Agree on the broken play potential, but the downside of losing the ball 10m from your own line without having your own defensive line set does rate a mention - and the take from Clarke was not uncontested.
Perhaps I'm being harsh. Barrett kicked long off the very first ruck after winning it back - their defence was well formed - but I guess that's a good decision after the first decision was not really worth the risk, no point throwing good money after bad. -
@booboo Oh, no worries, I didn't take it as harsh at all. If anything, I'm more uneasy about the fact that I do seem to have some credibility here.
Glad you're enjoying it, it's been fun to write and think about.
@Mauss said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@booboo Oh, no worries, I didn't take it as harsh at all. If anything, I'm more uneasy about the fact that I do seem to have some credibility here.
then don't worry, as the Fern is consistently fickle.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
That 23 is more than capable of beating NZ
And the Captain Obvious Award goes to ...
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
That 23 is more than capable of beating NZ
And the Captain Obvious Award goes to ...
In response to no chance without Keenan and Furhlong
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@mariner4life It’s been great reading everyone’s replies, some really good points made. I’ll try to regain some credibility now, @Booboo, or maybe I’ll lose what little I have left.
I’m also not a particular fan of Barrett at six. The only reason I numbered the players like this is because the suggestion of Tuipulotu at blindside might be even more outlandish. I checked Tuipulotu’s playing history and he hasn’t played a single game there, neither for Auckland nor the Blues. But to be honest, I’m not really sure why it wouldn’t work, especially at Test level, where the space is a lot tighter. He’s a big guy, obviously, but he’s actually pretty mobile, he moves his feet well, and I feel like he’s really fit and conditioned at the moment. So in actuality, he would be the blindside in everything but name in the hypothetical I’m putting forward, only I’d retain his place at tighthead lock in the scrum. Barrett would need to make sure he doesn’t get burned when packing down on the blind, but, apart from that, he would be playing his regular role at lock, doing all the tight stuff through the middle.
Another reason for Tuipulotu’s inclusion from the start is related to Savea’s lesser performances this year. He’s being asked to make a lot of carries through the middle and, to be honest, it hasn’t really worked. If Tuipulotu starts, Savea becomes freed to make more carries on the edge and in midfield, where he excels. With Sititi, Savea and Aumua carrying out wide, and Tuipulotu, Vaa’i, Barrett and the props taking care of the middle, I think you have a dynamic and effective carrying unit. On Saturday, Cane often ended up with the ball and, as @ACT-Crusader already remarked, that’s not really a situation you want to end up with.
All that being said, I probably agree with @Mr-Fish that it’s a sensible decision to stick with the current team selection right now. @reprobate also makes a good point about the clarity around defensive structures for the Irish test. Cane was immense in the quarter final, so the coaching team will be hoping that he can replicate that performance on Friday.
I still think that there’s been something really different about Tuipulotu these past few weeks, a confidence and assuredness I hadn’t really seen before. There aren’t a whole lot of Test matches in a year so when a player makes a case like that, you don’t have a lot of time as a coaching unit to make decisions. For now, they’ve gone with continuity, and I assume Tuipulotu will see a lot of time on the field from the bench again.
@Mauss said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
I still think that there’s been something really different about Tuipulotu these past few weeks, a confidence and assuredness I hadn’t really seen before. There aren’t a whole lot of Test matches in a year so when a player makes a case like that, you don’t have a lot of time as a coaching unit to make decisions. For now, they’ve gone with continuity, and I assume Tuipulotu will see a lot of time on the field from the bench again.
I hope you are right.
But so far he has been consistently inconsistent at test level. -
@Mauss said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
I still think that there’s been something really different about Tuipulotu these past few weeks, a confidence and assuredness I hadn’t really seen before. There aren’t a whole lot of Test matches in a year so when a player makes a case like that, you don’t have a lot of time as a coaching unit to make decisions. For now, they’ve gone with continuity, and I assume Tuipulotu will see a lot of time on the field from the bench again.
I hope you are right.
But so far he has been consistently inconsistent at test level.@Frank I think a lot of Test rugby comes down to gambling mathematics. You can't really control the outcomes but you can shift the probabilities. I think Tuipulotu offers something interesting within those probabilities.
I also think that's why Rassie Erasmus is such an excellent coach at Test level while not being similarly as successful at Super Rugby or Pro 14 competitions. He's an incredible gambler (and I mean that in a positive way).
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@mariner4life It’s been great reading everyone’s replies, some really good points made. I’ll try to regain some credibility now, @Booboo, or maybe I’ll lose what little I have left.
I’m also not a particular fan of Barrett at six. The only reason I numbered the players like this is because the suggestion of Tuipulotu at blindside might be even more outlandish. I checked Tuipulotu’s playing history and he hasn’t played a single game there, neither for Auckland nor the Blues. But to be honest, I’m not really sure why it wouldn’t work, especially at Test level, where the space is a lot tighter. He’s a big guy, obviously, but he’s actually pretty mobile, he moves his feet well, and I feel like he’s really fit and conditioned at the moment. So in actuality, he would be the blindside in everything but name in the hypothetical I’m putting forward, only I’d retain his place at tighthead lock in the scrum. Barrett would need to make sure he doesn’t get burned when packing down on the blind, but, apart from that, he would be playing his regular role at lock, doing all the tight stuff through the middle.
Another reason for Tuipulotu’s inclusion from the start is related to Savea’s lesser performances this year. He’s being asked to make a lot of carries through the middle and, to be honest, it hasn’t really worked. If Tuipulotu starts, Savea becomes freed to make more carries on the edge and in midfield, where he excels. With Sititi, Savea and Aumua carrying out wide, and Tuipulotu, Vaa’i, Barrett and the props taking care of the middle, I think you have a dynamic and effective carrying unit. On Saturday, Cane often ended up with the ball and, as @ACT-Crusader already remarked, that’s not really a situation you want to end up with.
All that being said, I probably agree with @Mr-Fish that it’s a sensible decision to stick with the current team selection right now. @reprobate also makes a good point about the clarity around defensive structures for the Irish test. Cane was immense in the quarter final, so the coaching team will be hoping that he can replicate that performance on Friday.
I still think that there’s been something really different about Tuipulotu these past few weeks, a confidence and assuredness I hadn’t really seen before. There aren’t a whole lot of Test matches in a year so when a player makes a case like that, you don’t have a lot of time as a coaching unit to make decisions. For now, they’ve gone with continuity, and I assume Tuipulotu will see a lot of time on the field from the bench again.
@Mauss said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
I still think that there’s been something really different about Tuipulotu these past few weeks, a confidence and assuredness I hadn’t really seen before. There aren’t a whole lot of Test matches in a year so when a player makes a case like that, you don’t have a lot of time as a coaching unit to make decisions. For now, they’ve gone with continuity, and I assume Tuipulotu will see a lot of time on the field from the bench again.
I think he's been different all through SR as well. He was a warrior, coming back early from injury to lead the Blues to the title. And he was excellent last week against England. That said, I'd be happy for Razor to actually sub him on just after the half on purpose this week, as opposed to being forced to by injury. We need to take a leaf out of Rassie's book, and utilise some of our bench players for a longer period in order to allow them to make the most impact
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With Furlong out, I guess EdG's scrummaging is not critically needed. Williams is usually a good scrummager too and a better all round forward than EdG. Ofa T was excellent from the bench and it would not have been a sensible decision to let one of these two out of the 23.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Friendly reminder: this is 9am SATURDAY morning not Sunday. Don't get caught.
Well shit. I had no clue. I was working out how to watch this on Sunday morning, and would never have clicked that I was a day late if you hadn’t posted this.
Thank you sir
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
That 23 is more than capable of beating NZ
And the Captain Obvious Award goes to ...
In response to no chance without Keenan and Furhlong
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
That 23 is more than capable of beating NZ
And the Captain Obvious Award goes to ...
In response to no chance without Keenan and Furhlong
Might not need them. Keenan needs to show interest and a fit Furhlong is some distance away.
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Great interview with McKenzie. Classy bloke and I fear him cutting us open tomorrow. Hopefully the he will be put under lots of pressure to force errors.
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With Furlong out, I guess EdG's scrummaging is not critically needed. Williams is usually a good scrummager too and a better all round forward than EdG. Ofa T was excellent from the bench and it would not have been a sensible decision to let one of these two out of the 23.
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
With Furlong out, I guess EdG's scrummaging is not critically needed. Williams is usually a good scrummager too and a better all round forward than EdG. Ofa T was excellent from the bench and it would not have been a sensible decision to let one of these two out of the 23.
Reading your post, I noticed we seem to be in a good space in a number of positions we looked to be struggling a year/few months ago. Props, Locks and Halfbacks look good and if Proctor kicks on, the midfield as well. New players like Sititi and Ratima have slotted in and some of the newbies from the last couple of years have really kicked on.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
With Furlong out, I guess EdG's scrummaging is not critically needed. Williams is usually a good scrummager too and a better all round forward than EdG. Ofa T was excellent from the bench and it would not have been a sensible decision to let one of these two out of the 23.
Reading your post, I noticed we seem to be in a good space in a number of positions we looked to be struggling a year/few months ago. Props, Locks and Halfbacks look good and if Proctor kicks on, the midfield as well. New players like Sititi and Ratima have slotted in and some of the newbies from the last couple of years have really kicked on.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
With Furlong out, I guess EdG's scrummaging is not critically needed. Williams is usually a good scrummager too and a better all round forward than EdG. Ofa T was excellent from the bench and it would not have been a sensible decision to let one of these two out of the 23.
Reading your post, I noticed we seem to be in a good space in a number of positions we looked to be struggling a year/few months ago. Props, Locks and Halfbacks look good and if Proctor kicks on, the midfield as well. New players like Sititi and Ratima have slotted in and some of the newbies from the last couple of years have really kicked on.
I'm not saying we are going to win but it's great going into tough games knowing we have got a decent forward pack.
Quiet confidence. Decent scrum. Last 3-4 years at times has been dire not knowing where to find a good prop.
Thankfully those days are behind us. -
With Furlong out, I guess EdG's scrummaging is not critically needed. Williams is usually a good scrummager too and a better all round forward than EdG. Ofa T was excellent from the bench and it would not have been a sensible decision to let one of these two out of the 23.
@cgrant said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
With Furlong out, I guess EdG's scrummaging is not critically needed. Williams is usually a good scrummager too and a better all round forward than EdG.
I would like to see Williams more involved around the field than he was against England. He is a good ball-carrier, unlike de Groot, but was largely anonymous. One carry all game for 6 m.
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Great interview with McKenzie. Classy bloke and I fear him cutting us open tomorrow. Hopefully the he will be put under lots of pressure to force errors.
@The-Irishman said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Great interview with McKenzie. Classy bloke and I fear him cutting us open tomorrow. Hopefully the he will be put under lots of pressure to force errors.
Will come down to our forwards setting a platform , for me the most underated part of his game is his quick passing game, his hands are pretty slick when hes on
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Great interview with McKenzie. Classy bloke and I fear him cutting us open tomorrow. Hopefully the he will be put under lots of pressure to force errors.
@The-Irishman said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Great interview with McKenzie. Classy bloke and I fear him cutting us open tomorrow. Hopefully the he will be put under lots of pressure to force errors.
Thanks for posting that. Great interview. I really like the intelligent way he quickly responds, and the way he sees the game and it's challenges is the way I like to see it.
