All Blacks v France
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France:
@Billy-Tell or South African
resident Saffas exempted - but my God, some of your fellow countrymen and women have a pathological victim complex going on. Andrew Brace tried to rob the Boks on Saturday rather than the Boks being indisciplined and inviting pressure.I’m not South African! Nor English!
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France:
@Billy-Tell or South African
resident Saffas exempted - but my God, some of your fellow countrymen and women have a pathological victim complex going on. Andrew Brace tried to rob the Boks on Saturday rather than the Boks being indisciplined and inviting pressure.I’m not South African! Nor English!
Sure, sure 🤫
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@Chris said in All Blacks v France:
@Halfback said in All Blacks v France:
@No-Quarter Its got to be hard to make a decision like that after 75 minutes of running around. I don't envy his role in that respect, brain must be frazzled.
The longer you look at his decision the worse it gets though:
I think it was the 2 previous restarts we fluffed? 1 penalty and I think the other was a knock on? Can't fully remember. I'd prefer to fluff a restart in the lead.
If we had scored, the French would have to score a try to win minimum, surely it would be better to rumble up the field with possession, in the lead by a score, trying to achieve the same thing as if you were 1 point behind.
On that note, not to Barrett bash, I think Savea should be captain. I think Scotts position may be under threat soon. Savea not so much.
Scott Barrett’s position is no way in danger he will stay captain and starting lock.
There is some right BS being spoken about his performances.
Savea is the one who should be gone to the bench at least he has been a highlight reel for some time now.Circle the wagons cantabs!!!!!
He nailed all his line out takes,Pinched a French throw,made a lot of good carries,was one of the leading tacklers,and was in the engine room of a dominant scrum.
Vai had a very good first half but threw the stupid pass that led to the French wingers try.
Not sure what Barrett was expected to do kick the goals kick for touch.throw into the linouts and catch it at the same time.
Just dribble being written.@Chris said in All Blacks v France:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@Chris said in All Blacks v France:
@Halfback said in All Blacks v France:
@No-Quarter Its got to be hard to make a decision like that after 75 minutes of running around. I don't envy his role in that respect, brain must be frazzled.
The longer you look at his decision the worse it gets though:
I think it was the 2 previous restarts we fluffed? 1 penalty and I think the other was a knock on? Can't fully remember. I'd prefer to fluff a restart in the lead.
If we had scored, the French would have to score a try to win minimum, surely it would be better to rumble up the field with possession, in the lead by a score, trying to achieve the same thing as if you were 1 point behind.
On that note, not to Barrett bash, I think Savea should be captain. I think Scotts position may be under threat soon. Savea not so much.
Scott Barrett’s position is no way in danger he will stay captain and starting lock.
There is some right BS being spoken about his performances.
Savea is the one who should be gone to the bench at least he has been a highlight reel for some time now.Circle the wagons cantabs!!!!!
He nailed all his line out takes,Pinched a French throw,made a lot of good carries,was one of the leading tacklers,and was in the engine room of a dominant scrum.
Vai had a very good first half but threw the stupid pass that led to the French wingers try.
Not sure what Barrett was expected to do kick the goals kick for touch.throw into the linouts and catch it at the same time.
Just dribble being written.Not sure what you’re watching Chris. He looks very pedestrian to me. No dominant tackles, no carries of note, lots of his little “not really close to a charge-down run-throughs” though.
Vai’i on the other hand is far more dominant at line out, far more prominent with ball in hand. Patrick off the bench has also surprised on the upside this year.
I think SB has been put 3rd best lock, and I think Darry and Holland might just push him to #5 best next year.
Lucky he’s a Barrett though I guess, that tends to extend your career by a year or 2 minimum
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@Chris said in All Blacks v France:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@Chris said in All Blacks v France:
@Halfback said in All Blacks v France:
@No-Quarter Its got to be hard to make a decision like that after 75 minutes of running around. I don't envy his role in that respect, brain must be frazzled.
The longer you look at his decision the worse it gets though:
I think it was the 2 previous restarts we fluffed? 1 penalty and I think the other was a knock on? Can't fully remember. I'd prefer to fluff a restart in the lead.
If we had scored, the French would have to score a try to win minimum, surely it would be better to rumble up the field with possession, in the lead by a score, trying to achieve the same thing as if you were 1 point behind.
On that note, not to Barrett bash, I think Savea should be captain. I think Scotts position may be under threat soon. Savea not so much.
Scott Barrett’s position is no way in danger he will stay captain and starting lock.
There is some right BS being spoken about his performances.
Savea is the one who should be gone to the bench at least he has been a highlight reel for some time now.Circle the wagons cantabs!!!!!
He nailed all his line out takes,Pinched a French throw,made a lot of good carries,was one of the leading tacklers,and was in the engine room of a dominant scrum.
Vai had a very good first half but threw the stupid pass that led to the French wingers try.
Not sure what Barrett was expected to do kick the goals kick for touch.throw into the linouts and catch it at the same time.
Just dribble being written.Not sure what you’re watching Chris. He looks very pedestrian to me. No dominant tackles, no carries of note, lots of his little “not really close to a charge-down run-throughs” though.
Vai’i on the other hand is far more dominant at line out, far more prominent with ball in hand. Patrick off the bench has also surprised on the upside this year.
I think SB has been put 3rd best lock, and I think Darry and Holland might just push him to #5 best next year.
Lucky he’s a Barrett though I guess, that tends to extend your career by a year or 2 minimum
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France:
@Chris said in All Blacks v France:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@Chris said in All Blacks v France:
@Halfback said in All Blacks v France:
@No-Quarter Its got to be hard to make a decision like that after 75 minutes of running around. I don't envy his role in that respect, brain must be frazzled.
The longer you look at his decision the worse it gets though:
I think it was the 2 previous restarts we fluffed? 1 penalty and I think the other was a knock on? Can't fully remember. I'd prefer to fluff a restart in the lead.
If we had scored, the French would have to score a try to win minimum, surely it would be better to rumble up the field with possession, in the lead by a score, trying to achieve the same thing as if you were 1 point behind.
On that note, not to Barrett bash, I think Savea should be captain. I think Scotts position may be under threat soon. Savea not so much.
Scott Barrett’s position is no way in danger he will stay captain and starting lock.
There is some right BS being spoken about his performances.
Savea is the one who should be gone to the bench at least he has been a highlight reel for some time now.Circle the wagons cantabs!!!!!
He nailed all his line out takes,Pinched a French throw,made a lot of good carries,was one of the leading tacklers,and was in the engine room of a dominant scrum.
Vai had a very good first half but threw the stupid pass that led to the French wingers try.
Not sure what Barrett was expected to do kick the goals kick for touch.throw into the linouts and catch it at the same time.
Just dribble being written.Not sure what you’re watching Chris. He looks very pedestrian to me. No dominant tackles, no carries of note, lots of his little “not really close to a charge-down run-throughs” though.
Vai’i on the other hand is far more dominant at line out, far more prominent with ball in hand. Patrick off the bench has also surprised on the upside this year.
I think SB has been put 3rd best lock, and I think Darry and Holland might just push him to #5 best next year.
Lucky he’s a Barrett though I guess, that tends to extend your career by a year or 2 minimum
Well are watching different games then.
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Sigh
Back to cricket Chris -
Huh, I thought Scooter had one of his better games on Saturday. Looked to be getting back to his bustling type play.
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He's doing nothing "wrong" but neither is he really adding anything. We're giving him a pass mark and not much more.
@voodoo is completely right. If vaai is already past him (and it's clear he is) and Patty T is thr bench guy, it only takes Holland to do.basics AND add something else and boom, scooter is another bad selection in the 23.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
Huh, I thought Scooter had one of his better games on Saturday. Looked to be getting back to his bustling type play.
Maybe give him a run at 15?
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
Huh, I thought Scooter had one of his better games on Saturday. Looked to be getting back to his bustling type play.
Maybe give him a run at 15?
Passes too much and kicks too accurately.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v France:
He sets up other players well, is definitely not selfish (don't know where that is coming from)
Right, so the multiple instances of him ignoring support and/or taking the limp option then turning the ball over is great team play? Keep drinking the coolade man. What's good about him not looking to link when he breaks, or overrunning the ball carrier, kicking the ball away randomly or throwing a shit 20/80 pass when he's eventually caught? Yeah very unselfish.
@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v France:
He sets up other players well, is definitely not selfish (don't know where that is coming from)
Right, so the multiple instances of him ignoring support and/or taking the limp option then turning the ball over is great team play? Keep drinking the coolade man. What's good about him not looking to link when he breaks, or overrunning the ball carrier, kicking the ball away randomly or throwing a shit 20/80 pass when he's eventually caught? Yeah very unselfish.
Needs a comma.
I'd like to see his assist stats compared to other players. He seems to be a good link player. I am not sure you have a healthy perspective about this particular player.... -
@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v France:
He sets up other players well, is definitely not selfish (don't know where that is coming from)
Right, so the multiple instances of him ignoring support and/or taking the limp option then turning the ball over is great team play? Keep drinking the coolade man. What's good about him not looking to link when he breaks, or overrunning the ball carrier, kicking the ball away randomly or throwing a shit 20/80 pass when he's eventually caught? Yeah very unselfish.
Needs a comma.
I'd like to see his assist stats compared to other players. He seems to be a good link player. I am not sure you have a healthy perspective about this particular player....@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v France:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v France:
He sets up other players well, is definitely not selfish (don't know where that is coming from)
Right, so the multiple instances of him ignoring support and/or taking the limp option then turning the ball over is great team play? Keep drinking the coolade man. What's good about him not looking to link when he breaks, or overrunning the ball carrier, kicking the ball away randomly or throwing a shit 20/80 pass when he's eventually caught? Yeah very unselfish.
Needs a comma.
I'd like to see his assist stats compared to other players. He seems to be a good link player. I am not sure you have a healthy perspective about this particular player....I’m with @Bones on this.
He’s not selfish in a “I couldn’t care less about my teammates “ kinda way, he’s more selfish in a “go for the hero play every time” kinda way
Whether that’s selfishness, immaturity, or just poor basic skills, he just takes a lot of bad options.
When you think about all his best moments, they’re all individual plays. Not bad in and of itself, but when you put them alongside all the chances he’s had to put other guys into the same situation by making a simple non-flashy play, they get outnumbered by his errors
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v France:
He sets up other players well, is definitely not selfish (don't know where that is coming from)
Right, so the multiple instances of him ignoring support and/or taking the limp option then turning the ball over is great team play? Keep drinking the coolade man. What's good about him not looking to link when he breaks, or overrunning the ball carrier, kicking the ball away randomly or throwing a shit 20/80 pass when he's eventually caught? Yeah very unselfish.
Needs a comma.
I'd like to see his assist stats compared to other players. He seems to be a good link player. I am not sure you have a healthy perspective about this particular player....@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v France:
I'd like to see his assist stats compared to other players. He seems to be a good link player.
Keen as! I'm intrigued what you're watching to think he's a good link player.
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Scott Barrett was very good against England and Ireland. If you watch the tape back you'll see all the important things he's doing. I've not had a chance to watch the France game again just yet.
Will Jordan... Yeah, he's not really a playmaking fullback. He looks his best when he's running hard and straight into the line but that means being blind to some of the options around you. His distribution game is pretty awful too, two or three times on Saturday he threw very ponderous passes. He's no Ben Smith. Think the All Blacks would get the most out of him on the wing.
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I can’t say I’ve been a fan of Jordan on the wing. Right wings typically have to make do with limited space, so a quick step (NMS), fend (Jane) or deceptive strength in contact (Tele’a) are crucial. Tele’a’s performance against England for me represents what you really want from your 14. Getting the most out of very little.
I’d argue that Jordan possesses none of those typical right wing-traits. When playing on the wing with limited space, he tends to get physically bullied by his opposition winger (I have bad memories of Kolbe manhandling him in the RWC final).
His strengths seem to me to be his ability to scan defences and to produce an acceleration through the gap. While this is less visible and I can’t really provide any evidence of this, he does strike me as a good communicator. At the very least, he is talking a lot throughout games.
So, personally, I’d want him to improve as a fullback (and like many have said here, he has a lot to improve on). If he doesn’t, he probably falls outside of the 23 for me.
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I can’t say I’ve been a fan of Jordan on the wing. Right wings typically have to make do with limited space, so a quick step (NMS), fend (Jane) or deceptive strength in contact (Tele’a) are crucial. Tele’a’s performance against England for me represents what you really want from your 14. Getting the most out of very little.
I’d argue that Jordan possesses none of those typical right wing-traits. When playing on the wing with limited space, he tends to get physically bullied by his opposition winger (I have bad memories of Kolbe manhandling him in the RWC final).
His strengths seem to me to be his ability to scan defences and to produce an acceleration through the gap. While this is less visible and I can’t really provide any evidence of this, he does strike me as a good communicator. At the very least, he is talking a lot throughout games.
So, personally, I’d want him to improve as a fullback (and like many have said here, he has a lot to improve on). If he doesn’t, he probably falls outside of the 23 for me.
@Mauss said in All Blacks v France:
I can’t say I’ve been a fan of Jordan on the wing. Right wings typically have to make do with limited space, so a quick step (NMS), fend (Jane) or deceptive strength in contact (Tele’a) are crucial. Tele’a’s performance against England for me represents what you really want from your 14. Getting the most out of very little.
I’d argue that Jordan possesses none of those typical right wing-traits. When playing on the wing with limited space, he tends to get physically bullied by his opposition winger (I have bad memories of Kolbe manhandling him in the RWC final).
His strengths seem to me to be his ability to scan defences and to produce an acceleration through the gap. While this is less visible and I can’t really provide any evidence of this, he does strike me as a good communicator. At the very least, he is talking a lot throughout games.
So, personally, I’d want him to improve as a fullback (and like many have said here, he has a lot to improve on). If he doesn’t, he probably falls outside of the 23 for me.
Can you find him a Welsh passport please?
I'd let him play anywhere he wants.
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@Mauss said in All Blacks v France:
I can’t say I’ve been a fan of Jordan on the wing. Right wings typically have to make do with limited space, so a quick step (NMS), fend (Jane) or deceptive strength in contact (Tele’a) are crucial. Tele’a’s performance against England for me represents what you really want from your 14. Getting the most out of very little.
I’d argue that Jordan possesses none of those typical right wing-traits. When playing on the wing with limited space, he tends to get physically bullied by his opposition winger (I have bad memories of Kolbe manhandling him in the RWC final).
His strengths seem to me to be his ability to scan defences and to produce an acceleration through the gap. While this is less visible and I can’t really provide any evidence of this, he does strike me as a good communicator. At the very least, he is talking a lot throughout games.
So, personally, I’d want him to improve as a fullback (and like many have said here, he has a lot to improve on). If he doesn’t, he probably falls outside of the 23 for me.
Can you find him a Welsh passport please?
I'd let him play anywhere he wants.
@MiketheSnow I'm not writing him off at all. All I'm saying is that, at the moment, Tele'a is a better 14 and McKenzie is a better 15. I don't think those are particularly unfair calls. If there were more depth at first five, I think McKenzie would've been given more time at fullback.
I also think Jordan is more than capable of stepping up. He just needs to start cutting those errors out of his game.
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@MiketheSnow I'm not writing him off at all. All I'm saying is that, at the moment, Tele'a is a better 14 and McKenzie is a better 15. I don't think those are particularly unfair calls. If there were more depth at first five, I think McKenzie would've been given more time at fullback.
I also think Jordan is more than capable of stepping up. He just needs to start cutting those errors out of his game.
@Mauss said in All Blacks v France:
@MiketheSnow I'm not writing him off at all. All I'm saying is that, at the moment, Tele'a is a better 14 and McKenzie is a better 15. I don't think those are particularly unfair calls. If there were more depth at first five, I think McKenzie would've been given more time at fullback.
I also think Jordan is more than capable of stepping up. He just needs to start cutting those errors out of his game.
trouble is we don't have many quality 10s.
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Thought is was our players who ran out of gas around half time. We lost a few turnovers when we put someone through a gap (williams the best example) and left them 10-15m up the field with no one even trying to get there to support. That is attitude mixed with tiredness.
We had almost no variation in our attack all game. 10 never kicked for variation so no stress on the defence. (except BBs daft kick passes)
They knew what was coming every time and we just kept serving it up.Really liked that while we are playing a high risk late passing game there was no panic if someone got tackled and was pushed back 5m or so. The team got back promptly and calmly and started again.
Great game, nothing in it, we are improving all the time, not the finished article but good signs.
Just have to beat Italy ..... dont want to take them lightly. -
Thought is was our players who ran out of gas around half time. We lost a few turnovers when we put someone through a gap (williams the best example) and left them 10-15m up the field with no one even trying to get there to support. That is attitude mixed with tiredness.
We had almost no variation in our attack all game. 10 never kicked for variation so no stress on the defence. (except BBs daft kick passes)
They knew what was coming every time and we just kept serving it up.Really liked that while we are playing a high risk late passing game there was no panic if someone got tackled and was pushed back 5m or so. The team got back promptly and calmly and started again.
Great game, nothing in it, we are improving all the time, not the finished article but good signs.
Just have to beat Italy ..... dont want to take them lightly.@Lancaster-Park can only think the idea is to pull the opposition into a very set defensive rut and then change it up completely when the bench comes on? It's often looked like we're trying to get the opposition to do a lot of metres on defence (standing still and waiting when passed the ball) in order to tire them - but at what cost?
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France:
@Billy-Tell or South African
resident Saffas exempted - but my God, some of your fellow countrymen and women have a pathological victim complex going on. Andrew Brace tried to rob the Boks on Saturday rather than the Boks being indisciplined and inviting pressure.I’m not South African! Nor English!
Sure, sure 🤫
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France:
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France:
@Billy-Tell or South African
resident Saffas exempted - but my God, some of your fellow countrymen and women have a pathological victim complex going on. Andrew Brace tried to rob the Boks on Saturday rather than the Boks being indisciplined and inviting pressure.I’m not South African! Nor English!
Sure, sure 🤫
Definitely suspect. No one even accused him of being English before he gracelessly refused @stodders compliment just like … a Pom.
