All Blacks v France

darylmitchell

@darylmitchell said in All Blacks v France:

@Nepia said in All Blacks v France:

@darylmitchell said in All Blacks v France:

Must be 1st time since 2006 EOYT (Collins, Masoe, Luaki) All Blacks have a non-NZ Euro starting LF trio?

Also, I actually can't ever recall us having an entire forward bench with no NZ Euro guys, is this a first?

I think we've rolled out Ioane/Frizell, Papali'i, Savea at some stage in the last couple of years.

I forgot about Dalton's PI heritage, i'm curious if Ioane/Frizzell, Papali'i, Savea have actually started together, usually it was Cane at 7, then when he got injured Blackadder, Papali'i, Savea was the combo for most of 2021, then Frizzell Cane Savea for 2022-2023

You forgot about Dalton PAPALI'I's PI heritage?

Cane and obviously Blackadder were injured a lot.

I also forget Finau, Papali'i, Savea started in the 1st tests of 2024, so yeah.... i got it wrong.

About the bench thing though it just seems to me we've always had 1-2 guys in the bench forwards, usually a prop or hooker or white lock (no pun intended........) or LF who's NZ Euro

for this test there's none and I'm trying to think of last time it occurred

nostrildamus

@Dodge said in All Blacks v France:

Will be nice to see the second best 9 (and best player ever) in the world again

So that French guy (and Roigard)? You have a good eye for worldclass talent.

Old Samurai Jack

@Dodge said in All Blacks v France:

this is the game of the weekend as far as i'm concerned. Hoping France turn up and the noise is insane. Will be nice to see the second best 9 (and best player ever) in the world again,

Wot? SA vs Poms?

Dodge

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v France:

@Dodge said in All Blacks v France:

this is the game of the weekend as far as i'm concerned. Hoping France turn up and the noise is insane. Will be nice to see the second best 9 (and best player ever) in the world again,

Wot? SA vs Poms?

England are going to play negatively and still get battered.

Mr Fish

England won't get battered but they will play negatively.

canefan

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France:

@Chris said in All Blacks v France:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France:

@Machpants said in All Blacks v France:

I bet Groot is pissed he missed that one meeting

What about Procter. Attended every meeting and still can’t get on the bench for this game.

Pretty hard to play off the bench from NZ.

At this rate, he will be lost to Nz rugby and it will be all down to Razor snubbing him in this tour

Laidlaw needs to give him a few games at 12 to prove he's serviceable there too. Then we can dispel the nonsense that Havili is above Proctor on the pecking order because he can play 12 and 13 and Proctor can't. It's tough as well because Rieko is playing well at 13

reprobate

@canefan big and fast enough to cover wing too, and sew up a spot in the 23.

canefan

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan big and fast enough to cover wing too, and sew up a spot in the 23.

Should be there, DH is yesterday's (journey)man

Snowy

@mikedogz said in All Blacks v France:

Sadly, there is a major flaw in that stat as an indicator of our performances against France when in away jersey.

reprobate

@canefan said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan big and fast enough to cover wing too, and sew up a spot in the 23.

Should be there, DH is yesterday's (journey)man

Agree, but as of now Havili covers 12, 13, 15. 10 in an absolute emergency. Proctor is seen as 13 only, and he needs to change that. The real risk to his spot is AJ Lam I think, who can play wing and is getting to play both 12 and 13.

canefan

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan big and fast enough to cover wing too, and sew up a spot in the 23.

Should be there, DH is yesterday's (journey)man

Agree, but as of now Havili covers 12, 13, 15. 10 in an absolute emergency. Proctor is seen as 13 only, and he needs to change that. The real risk to his spot is AJ Lam I think, who can play wing and is getting to play both 12 and 13.

Either way, I expect Havili to be squeezed out by one of these young guns by next season. His ceiling is low, and these guys can be the future if we care to find out

MN5

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan big and fast enough to cover wing too, and sew up a spot in the 23.

Should be there, DH is yesterday's (journey)man

Agree, but as of now Havili covers 12, 13, 15. 10 in an absolute emergency. Proctor is seen as 13 only, and he needs to change that. The real risk to his spot is AJ Lam I think, who can play wing and is getting to play both 12 and 13.

Didn’t he only play there in games the Crusaders lost and he got repeatedly charged down ?

May as well put Fletcher Newell down for first five cover.

Bones

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

13

what

KiwiMurph

@canefan said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan big and fast enough to cover wing too, and sew up a spot in the 23.

Should be there, DH is yesterday's (journey)man

Agree, but as of now Havili covers 12, 13, 15. 10 in an absolute emergency. Proctor is seen as 13 only, and he needs to change that. The real risk to his spot is AJ Lam I think, who can play wing and is getting to play both 12 and 13.

Either way, I expect Havili to be squeezed out by one of these young guns by next season. His ceiling is low, and these guys can be the future if we care to find out

He should be squeezed out now. Our utility back bench choice is rotated between a guy who doesn't suit coming off the bench in ALB and a guy who is 2 years past it in Havili. It's ridiculous.

Bones

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan big and fast enough to cover wing too, and sew up a spot in the 23.

Should be there, DH is yesterday's (journey)man

Agree, but as of now Havili covers 12, 13, 15. 10 in an absolute emergency. Proctor is seen as 13 only, and he needs to change that. The real risk to his spot is AJ Lam I think, who can play wing and is getting to play both 12 and 13.

Either way, I expect Havili to be squeezed out by one of these young guns by next season. His ceiling is low, and these guys can be the future if we care to find out

He should be squeezed out now. Our utility back bench choice is rotated between a guy who doesn't suit coming off the bench in ALB and a guy who is 2 years past it in Havili. It's ridiculous.

Slim pickings though eh, with all the NZXV midfield and outside backs having an absolute shocker.

canefan

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan said in All Blacks v France:

@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:

@canefan big and fast enough to cover wing too, and sew up a spot in the 23.

Should be there, DH is yesterday's (journey)man

Agree, but as of now Havili covers 12, 13, 15. 10 in an absolute emergency. Proctor is seen as 13 only, and he needs to change that. The real risk to his spot is AJ Lam I think, who can play wing and is getting to play both 12 and 13.

Either way, I expect Havili to be squeezed out by one of these young guns by next season. His ceiling is low, and these guys can be the future if we care to find out

He should be squeezed out now. Our utility back bench choice is rotated between a guy who doesn't suit coming off the bench in ALB and a guy who is 2 years past it in Havili. It's ridiculous.

Amen brother, you know how I feel. The guy should never have been in the squad this season in the first place. He's just holding younger players up

Mr Fish

Since when has Havili been seen as a 13 option?

When Havili is on the pine he's really only covering 12. McKenzie/Barrett/Perofeta is covering 10 and fullback. I'd argue Proctor is actually more useful on the bench than Havili because he can cover centre (something Havili cannot do), and if a winger goes off injured then Rieko will shift out and Proctor can play at 13.

If you have two injuries then Havili becomes more useful, but that's such a rare occurrence that it's not really worth factoring in at the expense of using a better player.

It's really only ALB that's ahead of Proctor in the queue for bench cover.

Proctor also played at second five as recently as 2022 and fullback back in 2019 and 2020 (although only ever for Wellington).

Havili's last game at fullback was in 2021 (he only played there once) - so it's not like he's had a lot of experience outside of 12 in recent years either (other than a few games at 10 this year, which didn't go especially well).

MN5

@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France:

Since when has Havili been seen as a 13 option?

When Havili is on the pine he's really only covering 12. McKenzie/Barrett/Perofeta is covering 10 and fullback. I'd argue Proctor is actually more useful on the bench than Havili because he can cover centre (something Havili cannot do), and if a winger goes off injured then Rieko will shift out and Proctor can play at 13.

If you have two injuries then Havili becomes more useful, but that's such a rare occurrence that it's not really worth factoring in at the expense of using a better player.

It's really only ALB that's ahead of Proctor in the queue for bench cover.

Proctor also played at second five as recently as 2022 and fullback back in 2019 and 2020 (although only ever for Wellington).

Havili's last game at fullback was in 2021 (he only played there once) - so it's not like he's had a lot of experience outside of 12 in recent years either (other than a few games at 10 this year, which didn't go especially well).

So even Havilis greatest strength, his ‘versatility’ is basically a myth.

DaGrubster

This post is deleted!

DaGrubster

@Bones said in All Blacks v France:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France:

@Chris said in All Blacks v France:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France:

@Machpants said in All Blacks v France:

I bet Groot is pissed he missed that one meeting

What about Procter. Attended every meeting and still can’t get on the bench for this game.

Pretty hard to play off the bench from NZ.

At this rate, he will be lost to Nz rugby and it will be all down to Razor snubbing him in this tour

Struggling to follow. Is the suggestion that it's Razor's fault Proctor's OH got up the duff?

Juicy.

I was adding to the ‘play proctor’ joke

The Silver Fern

All Blacks v France