Hurricanes vs Chiefs
-
@reprobate yep, do it early on to set the marker for 5/10 mins, but after that if they keep infringing ping em, they'll learn better that way, or should.
All well and good playing to the ref, but if all he does is 'coach' the players, it means they are infringing and affecting the flow of the game.
I dont want more pens and cards, but the ref needs to lay the marker.
@taniwharugby said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate yep, do it early on to set the marker for 5/10 mins, but after that if they keep infringing ping em, they'll learn better that way, or should.
All well and good playing to the ref, but if all he does is 'coach' the players, it means they are infringing and affecting the flow of the game.
I dont want more pens and cards, but the ref needs to lay the marker.
Couldn’t agree more.
-
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.@reprobate Itoje made his name from being quick to stop offending when it was pointed out by ref, until they decided to penalise first, after which his effectiveness was severely curtailed.
-
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
-
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.@reprobate fair enough mate, I can agree with some points, and can see re the slowing ball, but by same token, I just want players called back from offside, especially in case where it has no effect on game. But we all see it a little different mate.
-
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
-
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
That's fair
-
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
That's fair
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
That's fair
I might be taking this out of context, but isn't that just bad reffing?
-
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
That's fair
I might be taking this out of context, but isn't that just bad reffing?
@Bones said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@canefan said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.Best thing is to ref it tight for the opening part of a game to set the tone, then gently relax and allow the game to flow once the players realise the ref won't tolerate them taking the piss
Yep mate, once again, no win for ref. Imagine the Canes get penalised early in game, and opposition don't later in game for same thing.
That's fair
I might be taking this out of context, but isn't that just bad reffing?
Inconsistency is not part of good reffing, so I get what Dan is saying that a penalty in the first 10 minutes should be a penalty in the final 10, in an ideal world
-
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.@reprobate said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@Dan54 said in Hurricanes vs Chiefs:
@reprobate mate,I have to admit I prefer ref's telling players to get back etc, I am not a fan of them blowing stoppages more than needed. Might be just me, but I think the best ref's are those that communicate.
See I don't have a problem when ref's all have different styles etc, the alternative is almost reefing by A1, and blowing up every single infringement, I don't want to watch that rugby.It's not a stoppage yet if you're playing advantage. All letting it go does is encourage players to mildly offend all the time, which makes the game slower and worse.
Just watched the highlanders moana game - and same deal "no Ardie, you're offside". No advantage/penalty played, and he's already stopped fast ball being an option. Then off the slow ball he's caused there is a knock-on, and Moana benefit. I just can't see that being anything other than bad for the game.
Communication is a good thing, but play advantage - then they know for next time and the team playing within the rules isn't disadvantaged. I don't mind things being let go if they genuinely don't affect the play - but for me fast ruck ball is pretty much the key to good rugby, and that is what I see suffering right now.Yeah. Bloke offends: penalised.
There was an instance in the Drua v Reds.
Drua halfback approached the lineout inside the 10m before it had ended. Ref tells him "get back, get back, get back".
No, he fucked up and offended. Penalise him.
Game is altered as everybody stops while they work out what's going on before old mate wanders back to the 10.
Drua actually score.
Be pissed off if I was a Red or supporter.
-
I get everyone's point about blowing every infringement, but can guarantee we would have more complaints if refs did that very thing ,even playing advantage. Perhaps I have just watched rugby too long, and remember when refs got moaned at for being over zealous,even when playing advantage. See we getting complaints now that advantage is dead time and should be added on etc. What we watch is an imperfect game, and guess I just personally happy that way.
-
@pakman (first post, long time reader) I can't speak to super rugby, but the wife is an international umpire for field hockey. They have an umpire manager and multiple technical officials that at half time will have a huddle and between the two umpires on the field and the UM will discuss relevant issues, trends, and themes etc. After the game the umpires get a debrief, and a scorecard on performance etc. Fitness right through to individual calls and game management etc. So if for amateur hockey this is happening at the regional tournament and international evel. I would be very surprised its not happening at the super level.
Not union but at a recent hockey international tournament in Sydney. The NRL ref's and the hockey umpires had several get togethers and did some cross pollination on practices and processes. Some mentoring both ways is occurring as well.
I know that the union commentary team have access to the ref's prior and after games as well to discuss things. So the belligerence of certain commentators about the rules is an "act".
-
IMO I'm happy with the ref anouncing things like 'ruck' 'that's a maul' 'use it' but there should be no coaching. Takes me back to kiddies rugby, these guys are pros, the ref shouldn't be saying that.
As to thanking or praising players for pulling back from offending when told to do so by the ref - FFS
Ref coaching has been increasing massively. Ref should assess if it affects and penalise if it does.
