All Blacks v France II
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@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too . Backline, I not sure about, but if they want Jordan back at 15 would look at Nawara on right wing, and would maybe look at Clarke on left, we need to get better under high ball, we were poor on Saturday.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too . Backline, I not sure about, but if they want Jordan back at 15 would look at Nawara on right wing, and would maybe look at Clarke on left, we need to get better under high ball, we were poor on Saturday.
Makes sense to me Dan.
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Ardie did a lot of linking and continuity work I thought. He isn't a typical 7 but for people on here to say he was "shit", well, that wasn't my take on his game.
The forward I really thought we were missing was a 2024-level Sititi. -
I'd go with pretty much the same team as the first test with a few players moving around because of injuries, I don't think we'll see too many changes until we have the series wrapped up. My team would be the following:
- De Groot
- Taylor
- Newell
- Holland
- Va'ai
- Finau
- Savea (C)
- Lio-Willie
- Roigard
- Barrett
- Ioane
- Barrett
- Proctor
- Jordan
- McKenzie
- Taukei'aho
- Norris
- Tosi
- Tuipolotu
- Kirifi
- Ratima
- Love
- Tupaea
There’s quite a few changes in that lineup from a positional stance and therefore would require more of change than I think is necessary from the first test.
I’m more inclined for this series to make a direct swap (ala CLW for Sititi) than shoehorn guys that weren’t the original option.
De Groot
Taylor
Newell
Tuipoluto (in for Scooter if injured)
Holland
Va'ai
Savea (C)
Lio-Willie
Roigard
Barrett
Ioane
Barrett
Proctor
Narawa or Clarke (in for Reece)
JordanTaukei'aho
Norris
Tosi
Finau
Kirifi
Ratima
McKenzie
Tupaea -
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too . Backline, I not sure about, but if they want Jordan back at 15 would look at Nawara on right wing, and would maybe look at Clarke on left, we need to get better under high ball, we were poor on Saturday.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .
That would be an utter fucking disaster.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .
That would be an utter fucking disaster.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .
That would be an utter fucking disaster.
Agree, we can't have both on the field at the same time. Kirifi was getting bounced back like a winger when he was carrying.
Just have both covering seven, and get a big body playing eight.
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I've got a Savea, Papalili, Jacobson loose forward trio 2nd test starting providing Jacobson gets the all clear.Finau bench
@george33 as in thats the inside word or thats what you want?
I thought the starting loosies played well enough to have another run
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I don't see the point in playing Finau off the bench, yes he played there a bit this year, but if we want to see if he's our Kaino-like (acknowledging no one will ever be completely that level) then he has to start.
It is completely weird to pick a 6 in a squad, the only true blue 6, and then play him off the bench.
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I don't see the point in playing Finau off the bench, yes he played there a bit this year, but if we want to see if he's our Kaino-like (acknowledging no one will ever be completely that level) then he has to start.
It is completely weird to pick a 6 in a squad, the only true blue 6, and then play him off the bench.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v France 2:
I don't see the point in playing Finau off the bench, yes he played there a bit this year, but if we want to see if he's our Kaino-like (acknowledging no one will ever be completely that level) then he has to start.
It is completely weird to pick a 6 in a squad, the only true blue 6, and then play him off the bench.
They have a bunch of pieces that don't quite fit. Or they can't make them fit yet
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Kirifi's size has always counted against him, and that was pretty evident when he came on. He's an effective jackler as his short stature makes him difficult to move, but when it comes to the collisions he'll get smacked around at test level. It's also why players like Riccitelli have struggled to make the ABs, as @Chris-B has often talked about on here, size matters at the top level and that factors into the selection equation. Often players that have looked great at Super level have struggled with the physicality the next level up.
Not saying Kirifi should be discarded, he's really come of age as a player and if used right he could have an impact off the bench, but I can't see him as our starting 7 against the top teams.
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Kirifi's size has always counted against him, and that was pretty evident when he came on. He's an effective jackler as his short stature makes him difficult to move, but when it comes to the collisions he'll get smacked around at test level. It's also why players like Riccitelli have struggled to make the ABs, as @Chris-B has often talked about on here, size matters at the top level and that factors into the selection equation. Often players that have looked great at Super level have struggled with the physicality the next level up.
Not saying Kirifi should be discarded, he's really come of age as a player and if used right he could have an impact off the bench, but I can't see him as our starting 7 against the top teams.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v France 2:
Kirifi's size has always counted against him, and that was pretty evident when he came on. He's an effective jackler as his short stature makes him difficult to move, but when it comes to the collisions he'll get smacked around at test level. It's also why players like Riccitelli have struggled to make the ABs, as @Chris-B has often talked about on here, size matters at the top level at that factors into the selection equation. Often players that have looked great at Super level have struggled with the physicality the next level up.
Not saying Kirifi should be discarded, he's really come of age as a player and if used right he could have an impact off the bench, but I can't see him as our starting 7 against the top teams.
You can definitely get away with a small 7 if it's a really well-defined role and you have other loosies supplying excess size and power. We have neither.
Having said that, I'm still pleased to see him there. Rewarding form is good, and he has been very good this year. It also shows Robertson is actually looking to achieve something other than injury cover with his bench, which was such a weakness for us last year.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .
That would be an utter fucking disaster.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .
That would be an utter fucking disaster.
There is little difference between Kirifi, Savea and Finau compared to Savea, Lio Willie, and Tupou. Both two small guys with one big guy. I don't like either of those combos except as a stop gap.
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Ardie did a lot of linking and continuity work I thought. He isn't a typical 7 but for people on here to say he was "shit", well, that wasn't my take on his game.
The forward I really thought we were missing was a 2024-level Sititi.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France 2:
Ardie did a lot of linking and continuity work I thought. He isn't a typical 7 but for people on here to say he was "shit", well, that wasn't my take on his game.
The forward I really thought we were missing was a 2024-level Sititi.I don't think he was shit but he was certainly instrumental in that Woki try. Clean break happens on his tackle and then Woki smashes through him like nothing on the try line. He looked kinda tired I thought.
Too many small guys in the loose forwards will wear them down.
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I've got a Savea, Papalili, Jacobson loose forward trio 2nd test starting providing Jacobson gets the all clear.Finau bench
@george33 said in All Blacks v France 2:
I've got a Savea, Papalili, Jacobson loose forward trio 2nd test starting providing Jacobson gets the all clear.Finau bench
Well ... that would be unexpected
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Re small 7s ...
Two recent that went/go ok are Kwagga and Michael Hoopah!
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .
That would be an utter fucking disaster.
There is little difference between Kirifi, Savea and Finau compared to Savea, Lio Willie, and Tupou. Both two small guys with one big guy. I don't like either of those combos except as a stop gap.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .
That would be an utter fucking disaster.
There is little difference between Kirifi, Savea and Finau compared to Savea, Lio Willie, and Tupou. Both two small guys with one big guy. I don't like either of those combos except as a stop gap.
Left the Wallablies and playing for the ABs now ? Interesting
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .
That would be an utter fucking disaster.
There is little difference between Kirifi, Savea and Finau compared to Savea, Lio Willie, and Tupou. Both two small guys with one big guy. I don't like either of those combos except as a stop gap.
Left the Wallablies and playing for the ABs now ? Interesting
@MN5 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Canes4life , mate I wouldn't mind seeing Vaa'i stay at 6, start Pat T at lock, and see how Ardie goes back at 8, and start with Kirifi. Leave Finau as bench player, though would be happy to see Jacobson on bench too .
That would be an utter fucking disaster.
There is little difference between Kirifi, Savea and Finau compared to Savea, Lio Willie, and Tupou. Both two small guys with one big guy. I don't like either of those combos except as a stop gap.
Left the Wallablies and playing for the ABs now ? Interesting
Vaai vood you say such a thing
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@booboo said in All Blacks v France 2:
Re small 7s ...
Two recent that went/go ok are Kwagga and Michael Hoopah!
Great example, I'm a Kwagga fan! But he has another skill apparently:
https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/bok-defence-guru-backs-coach-kwagga/Not sure Hoopah is such a great example as he was a very good 7 but he could be manhandled because of size. OTOH I doubt George Smith was much bigger if at all but I don't remember him being manhandled very often.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v France 2:
Re small 7s ...
Two recent that went/go ok are Kwagga and Michael Hoopah!
Great example, I'm a Kwagga fan! But he has another skill apparently:
https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/bok-defence-guru-backs-coach-kwagga/Not sure Hoopah is such a great example as he was a very good 7 but he could be manhandled because of size. OTOH I doubt George Smith was much bigger if at all but I don't remember him being manhandled very often.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France 2:
@booboo said in All Blacks v France 2:
Re small 7s ...
Two recent that went/go ok are Kwagga and Michael Hoopah!
Great example, I'm a Kwagga fan! But he has another skill apparently:
https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/bok-defence-guru-backs-coach-kwagga/Not sure Hoopah is such a great example as he was a very good 7 but he could be manhandled because of size. OTOH I doubt George Smith was much bigger if at all but I don't remember him being manhandled very often.
Players were generally smaller during George Smith's era however he played with Toutai Kefu and Owen Finegan so there was a good balance. I think Smith would be a bit bigger and physically stronger than Hooper. Kwaga Smith is immensely strong for his size.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v France 2:
Re small 7s ...
Two recent that went/go ok are Kwagga and Michael Hoopah!
Tizzano is also smaller I think so give it time.
