All Blacks v France III
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
Seems odd that a visiting team would target the dead rubber Game 3 of a series as “the big one” that they want to win, but who the hell understands the French eh?
The logic seems to be that they'll target the third game because that's the game where the ABs were always expected to rotate their squad.
It's less odd when you start out from the premise that the French would be more than happy with a 2-1 series result. Then it makes (sort of) sense that they'd target the Test where the ABs are at their least experienced.
Not particularly in the spirit of the series but it's clear that both sides have very different approaches to these Tests.
@Mauss said in All Blacks v France 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
Seems odd that a visiting team would target the dead rubber Game 3 of a series as “the big one” that they want to win, but who the hell understands the French eh?
The logic seems to be that they'll target the third game because that's the game where the ABs were always expected to rotate their squad.
It's less odd when you start out from the premise that the French would be more than happy with a 2-1 series result. Then it makes (sort of) sense that they'd target the Test where the ABs are at their least experienced.
Not particularly in the spirit of the series but it's clear that both sides have very different approaches to these Tests.
Well it's a good theory, but what are they going to do? Rotate in half the squad that narrowly lost to an undercooked AB's to play alongside the other half that got spanked?
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@Mauss said in All Blacks v France 2:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
Seems odd that a visiting team would target the dead rubber Game 3 of a series as “the big one” that they want to win, but who the hell understands the French eh?
The logic seems to be that they'll target the third game because that's the game where the ABs were always expected to rotate their squad.
It's less odd when you start out from the premise that the French would be more than happy with a 2-1 series result. Then it makes (sort of) sense that they'd target the Test where the ABs are at their least experienced.
Not particularly in the spirit of the series but it's clear that both sides have very different approaches to these Tests.
Well it's a good theory, but what are they going to do? Rotate in half the squad that narrowly lost to an undercooked AB's to play alongside the other half that got spanked?
@Bones said in All Blacks v France 2:
Well it's a good theory, but what are they going to do? Rotate in half the squad that narrowly lost to an undercooked AB's to play alongside the other half that got spanked?
I guess...? Basically starting the more experienced squad members (Fickou, Villière, Bamba, Bourgarit) with some of the Top 14 finalists (Barassi, Bochaton) as the strongest combination.
That being said, it could just well be some French journalists who are trying to make sense of the whole thing and ending up overthinking it. Who knows, Galthié could end up playing an even less experienced team in Hamilton.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v France 2:
Well it's a good theory, but what are they going to do? Rotate in half the squad that narrowly lost to an undercooked AB's to play alongside the other half that got spanked?
I guess...? Basically starting the more experienced squad members (Fickou, Villière, Bamba, Bourgarit) with some of the Top 14 finalists (Barassi, Bochaton) as the strongest combination.
That being said, it could just well be some French journalists who are trying to make sense of the whole thing and ending up overthinking it. Who knows, Galthié could end up playing an even less experienced team in Hamilton.
@Mauss said in All Blacks v France 2:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France 2:
Well it's a good theory, but what are they going to do? Rotate in half the squad that narrowly lost to an undercooked AB's to play alongside the other half that got spanked?
I guess...? Basically starting the more experienced squad members (Fickou, Villière, Bamba, Bourgarit) with some of the Top 14 finalists (Barassi, Bochaton) as the strongest combination.
That being said, it could just well be some French journalists who are trying to make sense of the whole thing and ending up overthinking it. Who knows, Galthié could end up playing an even less experienced team in Hamilton.
They're going to get done by an experimental AB side. Rassie can be happy with trying to be a clever fluffybunny against Italy B while we sneak in another RC.
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McAlister, Ah Kuoi, Papali'i, Hotham, ALB and Love are the ones yet to play who are around the squad.
If those guys are the bench they will do no worse than the bench last night.
If Jacobson is fit he will probably start at 6 with Vaa'i injured or getting a chance to rest his shoulder.
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McAlister, Ah Kuoi, Papali'i, Hotham, ALB and Love are the ones yet to play who are around the squad.
If those guys are the bench they will do no worse than the bench last night.
If Jacobson is fit he will probably start at 6 with Vaa'i injured or getting a chance to rest his shoulder.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
McAlister, Ah Kuoi, Papali'i, Hotham, ALB and Love are the ones yet to play who are around the squad.
If those guys are the bench they will do no worse than the bench last night.
If Jacobson is fit he will probably start at 6 with Vaa'i injured or getting a chance to rest his shoulder.
If Vaa'i is fit then you would think he'd retain the 6 jersey with Jacobson playing at 8.
Imagine McAlister, Hotham and Love will all get spots on the bench. Don't think Ah Kuoi or Papali'i will feature unless there are injuries and assume ALB will start, if fit.
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho
3 Newell
4 Tuipulotu
5 Holland
6 Vaa'i / Jacobson / Finau
7 Savea
8 Jacobson / Lio-Willie
9 Roigard
10 McKenzie
11 Ioane
12 Tupaea
13 Lienert-Brown
14 Narawa
15 Jordan16 McAlister
17 Norris
18 Tosi
19 Finau / Ah Kuoi
20 Kirifi
21 Hotham
22 Love
23 Tavatavanawai -
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
McAlister, Ah Kuoi, Papali'i, Hotham, ALB and Love are the ones yet to play who are around the squad.
If those guys are the bench they will do no worse than the bench last night.
If Jacobson is fit he will probably start at 6 with Vaa'i injured or getting a chance to rest his shoulder.
If Vaa'i is fit then you would think he'd retain the 6 jersey with Jacobson playing at 8.
Imagine McAlister, Hotham and Love will all get spots on the bench. Don't think Ah Kuoi or Papali'i will feature unless there are injuries and assume ALB will start, if fit.
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho
3 Newell
4 Tuipulotu
5 Holland
6 Vaa'i / Jacobson / Finau
7 Savea
8 Jacobson / Lio-Willie
9 Roigard
10 McKenzie
11 Ioane
12 Tupaea
13 Lienert-Brown
14 Narawa
15 Jordan16 McAlister
17 Norris
18 Tosi
19 Finau / Ah Kuoi
20 Kirifi
21 Hotham
22 Love
23 Tavatavanawai@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
McAlister, Ah Kuoi, Papali'i, Hotham, ALB and Love are the ones yet to play who are around the squad.
If those guys are the bench they will do no worse than the bench last night.
If Jacobson is fit he will probably start at 6 with Vaa'i injured or getting a chance to rest his shoulder.
If Vaa'i is fit then you would think he'd retain the 6 jersey with Jacobson playing at 8.
He's had a shoulder injury for two weeks now plus he copped a knee in the head so may have failed his HIA. I don't see any point in risking him against what will still be an inexperienced experimental French side no matter who they put out.
Let Vaa'i get right for the RC
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
McAlister, Ah Kuoi, Papali'i, Hotham, ALB and Love are the ones yet to play who are around the squad.
If those guys are the bench they will do no worse than the bench last night.
If Jacobson is fit he will probably start at 6 with Vaa'i injured or getting a chance to rest his shoulder.
If Vaa'i is fit then you would think he'd retain the 6 jersey with Jacobson playing at 8.
Imagine McAlister, Hotham and Love will all get spots on the bench. Don't think Ah Kuoi or Papali'i will feature unless there are injuries and assume ALB will start, if fit.
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho
3 Newell
4 Tuipulotu
5 Holland
6 Vaa'i / Jacobson / Finau
7 Savea
8 Jacobson / Lio-Willie
9 Roigard
10 McKenzie
11 Ioane
12 Tupaea
13 Lienert-Brown
14 Narawa
15 Jordan16 McAlister
17 Norris
18 Tosi
19 Finau / Ah Kuoi
20 Kirifi
21 Hotham
22 Love
23 Tavatavanawai@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
McAlister, Ah Kuoi, Papali'i, Hotham, ALB and Love are the ones yet to play who are around the squad.
If those guys are the bench they will do no worse than the bench last night.
If Jacobson is fit he will probably start at 6 with Vaa'i injured or getting a chance to rest his shoulder.
If Vaa'i is fit then you would think he'd retain the 6 jersey with Jacobson playing at 8.
Imagine McAlister, Hotham and Love will all get spots on the bench. Don't think Ah Kuoi or Papali'i will feature unless there are injuries and assume ALB will start, if fit.
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho
3 Newell
4 Tuipulotu
5 Holland
6 Vaa'i / Jacobson / Finau
7 Savea
8 Jacobson / Lio-Willie
9 Roigard
10 McKenzie
11 Ioane
12 Tupaea
13 Lienert-Brown
14 Narawa
15 Jordan16 McAlister
17 Norris
18 Tosi
19 Finau / Ah Kuoi
20 Kirifi
21 Hotham
22 Love
23 Tavatavanawai.
I don’t understand the need to give everyone a run. Especially guys like ALB where we know exactly what he offers, and he’s clearly not the best 12 or the best 13 we have. If the coaches genuinely think Proctor is the future at 13, then give him another run outside Jordie and give QT a run off the bench.
I’d advocate for picking our best 15 again, after adjusting for injuries, and then making minimal changes to the bench if desired.
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Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season. Better late than never. Somehow he needs to rotate BB out to take a look at Love. Maybe DMac to start then Love comes on for 30 minutes? Or be really bold and start Love?
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
McAlister, Ah Kuoi, Papali'i, Hotham, ALB and Love are the ones yet to play who are around the squad.
If those guys are the bench they will do no worse than the bench last night.
If Jacobson is fit he will probably start at 6 with Vaa'i injured or getting a chance to rest his shoulder.
If Vaa'i is fit then you would think he'd retain the 6 jersey with Jacobson playing at 8.
Imagine McAlister, Hotham and Love will all get spots on the bench. Don't think Ah Kuoi or Papali'i will feature unless there are injuries and assume ALB will start, if fit.
1 De Groot
2 Taukei'aho
3 Newell
4 Tuipulotu
5 Holland
6 Vaa'i / Jacobson / Finau
7 Savea
8 Jacobson / Lio-Willie
9 Roigard
10 McKenzie
11 Ioane
12 Tupaea
13 Lienert-Brown
14 Narawa
15 Jordan16 McAlister
17 Norris
18 Tosi
19 Finau / Ah Kuoi
20 Kirifi
21 Hotham
22 Love
23 Tavatavanawai.
I don’t understand the need to give everyone a run. Especially guys like ALB where we know exactly what he offers, and he’s clearly not the best 12 or the best 13 we have. If the coaches genuinely think Proctor is the future at 13, then give him another run outside Jordie and give QT a run off the bench.
I’d advocate for picking our best 15 again, after adjusting for injuries, and then making minimal changes to the bench if desired.
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
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Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season. Better late than never. Somehow he needs to rotate BB out to take a look at Love. Maybe DMac to start then Love comes on for 30 minutes? Or be really bold and start Love?
@canefan said in All Blacks v France 2:
Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season. Better late than never. Somehow he needs to rotate BB out to take a look at Love. Maybe DMac to start then Love comes on for 30 minutes? Or be really bold and start Love?
I don’t mind what he is doing rewarding form with the likes of Kirifi and proctor , if they aren’t the answer, at least we are finding out
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Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
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I’d pick proctor again and start him with tupaea , Jim on the bench , give Jordie a spell .
Dmac inside tupaea , love on the bench .
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
@voodoo said in All Blacks v France 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France 2:
Robertson's plan was to give everyone a run according to him.
Proctor has very much been a mixed bag.
Kirifi was picked on his ability to win turnovers and his good discipline. He hasn't won a single turnover so far and gave away 3 penalties in 20 minutes yesterday.
Yep, I heard the statement from coach, just saying I hate it.
I’d personally agree on Proctor, but I’d add that the consensus seems to be a decent T2 improvement on a fairly forgettable T1 - so why not give him another go to see if he can build on it? We know what ALB and Rieko offer there, let’s carry on with creating depth.
Kirifi looked so frustrated today arguing with the ref didn’t he?
I'm pretty neutral on what happens with Proctor at the moment but it would seem that Proctor was a big part of their plan. The backline hasn't been great though and we got out to an early lead yesterday by keeping it tight.
I've always suspected that Kirifi would not go well with refs who are not Kiwis or Aussies. I doubt the coaches will appreciate the ongoing dialogue he was having with the ref
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France 2:
Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season. Better late than never. Somehow he needs to rotate BB out to take a look at Love. Maybe DMac to start then Love comes on for 30 minutes? Or be really bold and start Love?
I don’t mind what he is doing rewarding form with the likes of Kirifi and proctor , if they aren’t the answer, at least we are finding out
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v France 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France 2:
Razor is basically selecting how he should have last season. Better late than never. Somehow he needs to rotate BB out to take a look at Love. Maybe DMac to start then Love comes on for 30 minutes? Or be really bold and start Love?
I don’t mind what he is doing rewarding form with the likes of Kirifi and proctor , if they aren’t the answer, at least we are finding out
Exactly, and I think Proctor got better as the match went on. He does however seem to struggle in the collision area, both on attack and defence. I'd still keep him at centre though for now. I think there's some upside there with him.
Kirifi, yeah, still not seeing how he fits into the equation. Again, not gonna complain if he gets the next test, but when you're only a specialist jackler and you're not winning turnovers, then you start to look at what else he brings. Happy to see him get a few tests to prove his worth, but as I stated earlier, I think his Canes teammate Peter Lakai is a better bet. He offers way more flexibility off the bench. Don't know when he's available again.
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What I think we need to work on is.closing the game, which means bench personnel.
Maybe a couple of bench players need to start, meaning the 'better' players come on so we can finish stronger.
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What's the go with Peter Lakai? I think that bench spot would be more suited to him when fit.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v France III:
What's the go with Peter Lakai? I think that bench spot would be more suited to him when fit.
Lakai got an injury during the Brumbies quarter-final. From Stuff:
Hooker Asafo Aumua (hamstring) and loose forward Peter Lakai (knee) missed out on the 33-man squad named on Monday due to injury, but were on track to be fit in time for the Rugby Championship.
[...]
Aumua hurt his hamstring during training ahead of the Super Rugby playoffs, while Lakai damaged the Medial Collateral Ligament (MCL) in his knee during the Hurricanes’ defeat to the Brumbies in Canberra a fortnight ago.So he should be back for The Rugby Championship. If he's fit and Sititi's still out, I reckon he gets a go at the number 8-jersey. I thought he went very well for the Hurricanes there in the second half of the season.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v France III:
What's the go with Peter Lakai? I think that bench spot would be more suited to him when fit.
Lakai got an injury during the Brumbies quarter-final. From Stuff:
Hooker Asafo Aumua (hamstring) and loose forward Peter Lakai (knee) missed out on the 33-man squad named on Monday due to injury, but were on track to be fit in time for the Rugby Championship.
[...]
Aumua hurt his hamstring during training ahead of the Super Rugby playoffs, while Lakai damaged the Medial Collateral Ligament (MCL) in his knee during the Hurricanes’ defeat to the Brumbies in Canberra a fortnight ago.So he should be back for The Rugby Championship. If he's fit and Sititi's still out, I reckon he gets a go at the number 8-jersey. I thought he went very well for the Hurricanes there in the second half of the season.
@Mauss said in All Blacks v France III:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks v France III:
What's the go with Peter Lakai? I think that bench spot would be more suited to him when fit.
Lakai got an injury during the Brumbies quarter-final. From Stuff:
Hooker Asafo Aumua (hamstring) and loose forward Peter Lakai (knee) missed out on the 33-man squad named on Monday due to injury, but were on track to be fit in time for the Rugby Championship.
[...]
Aumua hurt his hamstring during training ahead of the Super Rugby playoffs, while Lakai damaged the Medial Collateral Ligament (MCL) in his knee during the Hurricanes’ defeat to the Brumbies in Canberra a fortnight ago.So he should be back for The Rugby Championship. If he's fit and Sititi's still out, I reckon he gets a go at the number 8-jersey. I thought he went very well for the Hurricanes there in the second half of the season.
Yes he did, and he's just as good playing 7. I think he's the perfect bench option for us when we're at full strength.
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I’m not keen on seeing them making a lot of changes. I know Robertson has stated he intends to give everyone a run but that doesn’t necessarily mean making a lot of changes or giving everyone a lot of time on the field. I also don’t think that has to include players currently with the squad as injury cover.
If it were up to me, assuming injured players don’t make a come back and nobody else is out, I’d make very few changes. Perhaps start Ratima and McKenzie then swap them both at half time for Roigard and Love. Swap out the front row at or even before half time. Give Tavatavanawai or Tupaea and some of the other reserves who look like they’ll be in the main 23 thirty minutes.
I don’t see the need for giving third or fourth choice players big minutes. Use the bench to rest players who might need it.
