All Blacks v Argentina II
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Clarke is fit, he goes to 11. Jordan to 14. Love to 15.
Yeah it's time to get Love in the 23 regularly.
Yeah nah. Would rather have Carter and Clarke on the wings and leave Jordan where he is.
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Clarke is fit, he goes to 11. Jordan to 14. Love to 15.
Yeah it's time to get Love in the 23 regularly.
Yeah nah. Would rather have Carter and Clarke on the wings and leave Jordan where he is.
Carter struggles under the high ball. Narawa is another wing option
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The pack wasn’t the issue today (ST’s throwing yips aside). They were a bit passive, but they did enough.
The backs have been progressively getting worse the longer the season has gone on. I thought Christie and BB know how to play together? Christie was industrious when he came on, but not much more. BB had a couple of magic moments on defence, but his tactical kicking was poor and that penalty miss…shocking.
Proctor I thought looked better. It was his 12 that had the mare today. And the back 3 were shut down which meant they at least had to do the basics well to not give the Pumas a sniff. And they shat the bed on that one.
Impact off the bench didn’t work because there was no control. Nobody sought to put structure back into the game and control the tempo. It was all very messy.
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Clarke is fit, he goes to 11. Jordan to 14. Love to 15.
Yeah it's time to get Love in the 23 regularly.
Yeah nah. Would rather have Carter and Clarke on the wings and leave Jordan where he is.
Carter struggles under the high ball. Narawa is another wing option
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
If Clarke is fit, he goes to 11. Jordan to 14. Love to 15.
Yeah it's time to get Love in the 23 regularly.
Yeah nah. Would rather have Carter and Clarke on the wings and leave Jordan where he is.
Carter struggles under the high ball. Narawa is another wing option
They need to send our outside backs over to an AFL bootcamp stat
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The pack wasn’t the issue today (ST’s throwing yips aside). They were a bit passive, but they did enough.
The backs have been progressively getting worse the longer the season has gone on. I thought Christie and BB know how to play together? Christie was industrious when he came on, but not much more. BB had a couple of magic moments on defence, but his tactical kicking was poor and that penalty miss…shocking.
Proctor I thought looked better. It was his 12 that had the mare today. And the back 3 were shut down which meant they at least had to do the basics well to not give the Pumas a sniff. And they shat the bed on that one.
Impact off the bench didn’t work because there was no control. Nobody sought to put structure back into the game and control the tempo. It was all very messy.
@stodders said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I thought Christie and BB know how to play together? Christie was industrious when he came on, but not much more. BB had a couple of magic moments on defence, but his tactical kicking was poor and that penalty miss…shocking.
This is how the Blues have looked under Christie and BB for years - clunky
Blues won the title with Plummer at 10 not Beauden.
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@mencey said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I just watched the interview. He may be a good block but S Barrett is no captain. IMHO
Not even a good lock atm.
@akan004 said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@mencey said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I just watched the interview. He may be a good block but S Barrett is no captain. IMHO
Not even a good lock atm.
He was adequate today. Didn’t let the side down with his play.
But his captaincy and control of the team is nonexistent
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Who is the heart and soul of our team atm? …Ardie? Hard to pinpoint a player.
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Who is the heart and soul of our team atm? …Ardie? Hard to pinpoint a player.
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Who is the heart and soul of our team atm? …Ardie? Hard to pinpoint a player.
Taylor?
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Looks like my decision to hack my way around 18 holes was the right one!
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Fark it I'd cut loose now.
Sititi 8, Roigard 9, DMac 10, Clarke 11, Jordan to 14. Love to 15
Savea or Sititi captain.
BB on the bench -
Fark it I'd cut loose now.
Sititi 8, Roigard 9, DMac 10, Clarke 11, Jordan to 14. Love to 15
Savea or Sititi captain.
BB on the bench@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Fark it I'd cut loose now.
Sititi 8, Roigard 9, DMac 10, Clarke 11, Jordan to 14. Love to 15
Savea or Sititi captain.
BB on the benchFuck all this BB to the bench shite.
Him and his ilk need to be excommunicated.
There are too many blokes in the squad used to losing.
McCaw lost 15 tests out of 148.
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This is the worst AB backline I can ever recall
I've seen AB backs with bad coaching.... the Brad Mooar era
I've seen AB backs with average talent.... the 2002 Cantablacks
I don't think I've ever seen backs who are combination of the two worst elements of the above.
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I can’t believe how forgiving some people are here.
This is the Allblacks.
Too many people willing to give lads their millionth chance. Get them gone. Leave provincial bias aside.
Get shot of them.
Argentina lost to England B a few weeks ago.
The gap has closed sure…but we are not even picking our best players or game plan any more.
Trapped in amber. Everyone afraid to make tough calls.
Injury and retirement is our best selector.
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This is the worst AB backline I can ever recall
I've seen AB backs with bad coaching.... the Brad Mooar era
I've seen AB backs with average talent.... the 2002 Cantablacks
I don't think I've ever seen backs who are combination of the two worst elements of the above.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
This is the worst AB backline I can ever recall
I've seen AB backs with bad coaching.... the Brad Mooar era
I've seen AB backs with average talent.... the 2002 Cantablacks
I don't think I've ever seen backs who are combination of the two worst elements of the above.
Players with massive points of difference ala Carter Love and Tangitau (speed) not used.
Stevensons big boot not used.
Tavatavanawai not used much.
ALB, Reece and Ioane should have been playing for Toshiba for the last 5 years…no exaggeration.
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Forwards are fine, 3 blokes in the backs need to retire.
Captaincy change is essential.
SB is a fine lock. -
Razor’s Ledge
Scott Robertson, lauded as the likely saviour of a wilting All Black brand, is now himself staring over a precipice, one pointing to not only the ABs’ first loss at Eden Park in more than three decades but its surrender of the Bledisloe Cup after 22 years.
After the ABs’ now typically nervy, formless and gormless performance in their 29-23 loss to the Pumas in Buenos Aires, questions will surely be asked about the calibre of Robertson’s leadership and the credentials of his coaching staff, beyond Jason Ryan.
Typically in rugby forums after AB losses, there is debate over whether this player or that should have been selected. And there is certainly a case that the man they call Razor has been too shy of wielding a sharp instrument of his own.
But it is hard now to dismiss the conclusion that the disjointed funk the All Blacks are in has more to do with the coaching and game-plan than to individual players themselves. The clunkiness of the backline play, the incompetence under the high ball, the passivity of the defence and, most of all, the chronic ill-discipline (leading to THREE yellow cards in this test) points to something fundamentally wrong in the coaching.
The contrast with the Wallabies’ gutsy, never-say-die performances against South Africa in Ellis Park and Capetown is striking. Joe Schmidt has put together a team that clearly has a strong sense of how it wants to play and he has designed a game plan around the opposition, not to match some mythical ‘this is our DNA’ brand marketing ideal. And the Wallabies, if anything, have been even more decimated by injuries than the All Blacks.
Schmidt has given young untried wingers like Jorgensen and Toole a chance. Robertson has stuck doggedly to Reece, who can be trusted on to deliver at least one brain explosion per game, and to Ioane, who now looks devoid of confidence after his disastrous shift back to left wing.
In fact, the entire backline, built around the well-past-his-best Beauden Barrett, still looks tentative, nervy and so afraid of making a mistake that it immediately falls into a hole of its own making. Out of ideas, it constantly kicks prized possession away with little intent. As a spectator, one is left wondering who is steering this ship. As it is, the team looks like a big black Mary Celeste, adrift and deserted.
There is a view, propounded by NZ Herald rugby writer Gregor Paul, that Razor has fallen victim to the Rugby NZ marketing machine, who want the All Blacks to match the Harlem Globetrotters brand image of frantic, fast rugby designed to keep the private equity owners happy and win over new global audiences. Certainly, if you read Ian Foster’s recent biography (ghost-written by Paul) this brand-marketing-tail-wagging-the-dog disease was creeping in when he was coach and was a big part of the white-anting against him that led to Razor’s early appointment - even before the 2023 World Cup had been played. And it was Foster’s treatment that played a part in Joe Schmidt taking up his appointment with the Wallabies.
But internal politics aside, it also may come down to the fact that Razor and, particularly, his assistants Jason Holland and Scott Hansen are just not very good – strategically inept, bad at communication and man management, lacking innovation, poor selectors and, most of all, so worried about losing that they are not installing a winning ethos or chancing their arm on a new generation of players.
As a result, the team look defeated in spirit, out of confidence and now standing on a narrow ledge over a very deep chasm, with Razor himself out the front.
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Forwards are fine, 3 blokes in the backs need to retire.
Captaincy change is essential.
SB is a fine lock.@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Forwards are fine, 3 blokes in the backs need to retire.
Captaincy change is essential.
SB is a fine lock.Well said. That was embarrassing to. watch.
