Exodus 2017
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again, what should they have done differently?
On one hand the best 10 to have played the game, so you want him to play, as you pointed out, they tried numerous players over the time, I don't care about what you hinted, that is irrelevant, what is relevant is they were looking for a back up, which just didnt pan out, poorly timed injuries, poor luck in other instances (Donald was much maligned for the HK loss, when there were others equally culpable) granted they didn't pan out perfectly or to plan, but again, what more should or could they have done?
Short of benching DC for a season to give someone a better shot at establishing themselves, I cant see what they could or should have done differently that would have changed much.
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again, what should they have done differently?
On one hand the best 10 to have played the game, so you want him to play, as you pointed out, they tried numerous players over the time, I don't care about what you hinted, that is irrelevant, what is relevant is they were looking for a back up, which just didnt pan out, poorly timed injuries, poor luck in other instances (Donald was much maligned for the HK loss, when there were others equally culpable) granted they didn't pan out perfectly or to plan, but again, what more should or could they have done?
Short of benching DC for a season to give someone a better shot at establishing themselves, I cant see what they could or should have done differently that would have changed much.
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@taniwharugby Looking at the above, and thinking back to it. The only clearly screw up was the selection of McAlister. That really didn't make any sense.
@MajorRage case of square peg, round hole?
I honestly don't see how they could have done anything greatly different, or with enough of an impact that would have seen us win more games.
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@MajorRage case of square peg, round hole?
I honestly don't see how they could have done anything greatly different, or with enough of an impact that would have seen us win more games.
@taniwharugby he hadnt played for ages, hadn't played in NZ hence for/against any of his team mates in even longer & was coming off an injury.
It was a straight out panic selection, and a huge risk. Which didn't pay off.
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The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. (I see we're perpetuating the Slade saves our bacon myth instead of the Kaino saves out bacon truth
).But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right, Hansen did ok, DC left and Barrett turns in career best performances that many if they're honest didn't think he had in him, and before that he had Cruden to come in when DC was injured at a time when Cruden was on fire.
@MajorRage Yep, the McAlister selection against France was the worse thing possible for both NZ and him. We blew a test, and he lost most of his reputation (his return is looked back as completely negative now when he actually had a couple of decent tests.)
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The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. (I see we're perpetuating the Slade saves our bacon myth instead of the Kaino saves out bacon truth
).But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right, Hansen did ok, DC left and Barrett turns in career best performances that many if they're honest didn't think he had in him, and before that he had Cruden to come in when DC was injured at a time when Cruden was on fire.
@MajorRage Yep, the McAlister selection against France was the worse thing possible for both NZ and him. We blew a test, and he lost most of his reputation (his return is looked back as completely negative now when he actually had a couple of decent tests.)
@Nepia said in Exodus 2017:
The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. (I see we're perpetuating the Slade saves our bacon myth instead of the Kaino saves out bacon truth
).But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right, Hansen did ok, DC left and Barrett turns in career best performances that many if they're honest didn't think he had in him, and before that he had Cruden to come in when DC was injured at a time when Cruden was on fire.
@MajorRage Yep, the McAlister selection against France was the worse thing possible for both NZ and him. We blew a test, and he lost most of his reputation (his return is looked back as completely negative now when he actually had a couple of decent tests.)
Did he? From memory, I thought he looked good against weak opposition but the minute he faced a decent defence, all he did was ineffectively run sideways. He was no better than Donald (arguably worse).
In hindsight, dropping Cruden was the biggest mistake because Slade didn't exactly turn out to be a memorable AB 10 anyway. From memory, 2011 was the HammerCanes year, which was a complete mess and one of the main reasons why Cruden missed out on the AB squad at first. The next year he was at the Chiefs, had a brilliant Super season and easily made the ABs, so they should've given him a chance to settle in.
But having said all that, who gives a shit about drudging this crap up yet again? Maybe you've forgotten but we won the 2011 RWC, in part because we had four AB 10s. Things worked out like a cliche sports movie, with Donald getting a ton of undeserved shit from all corners but coming back and turning himself into a hero. If I could go back and change it, I wouldn't change a thing (well, maybe drop Guildford...).
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Not to break up the nostalgia that has overtaken the thread...but returning to the current AB side and Franks has re-signed.
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
Not to break up the nostalgia that has overtaken the thread...but returning to the current AB side and Franks has re-signed.
Great news, somewhere out there in the real world redbeard just climaxed.
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Not to break up the nostalgia that has overtaken the thread...but returning to the current AB side and Franks has re-signed.
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
Not to break up the nostalgia that has overtaken the thread...but returning to the current AB side and Franks has re-signed.
Whew..that's one crossed off the list...now only another 19 to go...
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http://www.the42.ie/rassie-erasmus-ben-smith-3154572-Dec2016/
It's not us after Smith anyway. I wonder if there have been actual talks with anyone?
It's a long while since a SH star used Munster as bate to try and wrangle a better deal back home. Feels good!
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@Bovidae said in Exodus 2017:
I think Cruden is the most likely to go. With Smith and Dagg, Dagg's decision may be dependent on Smith's because if BFA leaves Dagg would be the best option at FB. What Hansen won't want is a repeat of 1990 with Gallagher and Ridge.
Gallagher & Ridge going was bad, but it was more that Botica, Crossan & Halligan went too... we went from worlds best fullback to 6th choice NZer in about 6 months
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Thing is, Donald performed adequately (at the very least) in most of his tests, it was just the occasional mong moment that really tarnished him.
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@Nepia said in Exodus 2017:
The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. (I see we're perpetuating the Slade saves our bacon myth instead of the Kaino saves out bacon truth
).But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right, Hansen did ok, DC left and Barrett turns in career best performances that many if they're honest didn't think he had in him, and before that he had Cruden to come in when DC was injured at a time when Cruden was on fire.
@MajorRage Yep, the McAlister selection against France was the worse thing possible for both NZ and him. We blew a test, and he lost most of his reputation (his return is looked back as completely negative now when he actually had a couple of decent tests.)
Did he? From memory, I thought he looked good against weak opposition but the minute he faced a decent defence, all he did was ineffectively run sideways. He was no better than Donald (arguably worse).
In hindsight, dropping Cruden was the biggest mistake because Slade didn't exactly turn out to be a memorable AB 10 anyway. From memory, 2011 was the HammerCanes year, which was a complete mess and one of the main reasons why Cruden missed out on the AB squad at first. The next year he was at the Chiefs, had a brilliant Super season and easily made the ABs, so they should've given him a chance to settle in.
But having said all that, who gives a shit about drudging this crap up yet again? Maybe you've forgotten but we won the 2011 RWC, in part because we had four AB 10s. Things worked out like a cliche sports movie, with Donald getting a ton of undeserved shit from all corners but coming back and turning himself into a hero. If I could go back and change it, I wouldn't change a thing (well, maybe drop Guildford...).
@Unco said in Exodus 2017:
@Nepia said in Exodus 2017:
The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. (I see we're perpetuating the Slade saves our bacon myth instead of the Kaino saves out bacon truth
).But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right, Hansen did ok, DC left and Barrett turns in career best performances that many if they're honest didn't think he had in him, and before that he had Cruden to come in when DC was injured at a time when Cruden was on fire.
@MajorRage Yep, the McAlister selection against France was the worse thing possible for both NZ and him. We blew a test, and he lost most of his reputation (his return is looked back as completely negative now when he actually had a couple of decent tests.)
Did he? From memory, I thought he looked good against weak opposition but the minute he faced a decent defence, all he did was ineffectively run sideways. He was no better than Donald (arguably worse).
In hindsight, dropping Cruden was the biggest mistake because Slade didn't exactly turn out to be a memorable AB 10 anyway. From memory, 2011 was the HammerCanes year, which was a complete mess and one of the main reasons why Cruden missed out on the AB squad at first. The next year he was at the Chiefs, had a brilliant Super season and easily made the ABs, so they should've given him a chance to settle in.
But having said all that, who gives a shit about drudging this crap up yet again? Maybe you've forgotten but we won the 2011 RWC, in part because we had four AB 10s. Things worked out like a cliche sports movie, with Donald getting a ton of undeserved shit from all corners but coming back and turning himself into a hero. If I could go back and change it, I wouldn't change a thing (well, maybe drop Guildford...).
He had a good game against the Wallabies at Homebush - DC gets all the credit (and deserves his credit) for the match but McAlister played a crucial role in getting us over the gain line in that tight match. But he was never the same player after he went overseas.
Clearly we do by responding even though we didn't bring it up!
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The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. (I see we're perpetuating the Slade saves our bacon myth instead of the Kaino saves out bacon truth
).But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right, Hansen did ok, DC left and Barrett turns in career best performances that many if they're honest didn't think he had in him, and before that he had Cruden to come in when DC was injured at a time when Cruden was on fire.
@MajorRage Yep, the McAlister selection against France was the worse thing possible for both NZ and him. We blew a test, and he lost most of his reputation (his return is looked back as completely negative now when he actually had a couple of decent tests.)
@Nepia said in Exodus 2017:
The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right,
I think the thing that somewhat damns the cartel in this instance is that they ended up with Slade as their number 2 first five at the 2011 RWC - and at that point he had about 120 minutes of test experience in the position - with about half of it against Fiji.
All the eggs were really in the Danny Boy basket - and when that upended, we really needed to get lucky.
In some ways, the scene was perfectly set for Donald. He'd already copped a lambasting for Hong Kong, so whatever he got from the RWC, if we lost, wouldn't be much worse . Aside from which, everyone knew he wasn't supposed to be there anyway - and Piri had already guaranteed the hotseat for himself by missing all those kicks in the first half. So probably a bit less pressure than if he'd been in the squad in the first place.
In hindsight, Henry's reign probably wasn't quite as seamless as Hansen's. I'm still a bit stunned that they apparently didn't tell Henry that Piri was injured.
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@Nepia said in Exodus 2017:
The gap between Carter and the rest in 2009-11 (after Evans left) was actually huge so made picking a replacement a lot harder. They did freak out a bit, and blow their own plan in 2010 by not taking away Cruden and Slade. In the end they needed all of them anyway - so maybe it didn't matter. But hey, sometimes a coach gets lucky and the timing is right,
I think the thing that somewhat damns the cartel in this instance is that they ended up with Slade as their number 2 first five at the 2011 RWC - and at that point he had about 120 minutes of test experience in the position - with about half of it against Fiji.
All the eggs were really in the Danny Boy basket - and when that upended, we really needed to get lucky.
In some ways, the scene was perfectly set for Donald. He'd already copped a lambasting for Hong Kong, so whatever he got from the RWC, if we lost, wouldn't be much worse . Aside from which, everyone knew he wasn't supposed to be there anyway - and Piri had already guaranteed the hotseat for himself by missing all those kicks in the first half. So probably a bit less pressure than if he'd been in the squad in the first place.
In hindsight, Henry's reign probably wasn't quite as seamless as Hansen's. I'm still a bit stunned that they apparently didn't tell Henry that Piri was injured.
@Chris-B. I think it's easier to be seamless at 10 when you have the 2012 onwards version of Cruden and the 2016 version of Barrett (and the less deer in the headlights later version of Slade).
I didn't know they didn't tell Henry that Piri got injured in the warm up - who was they? The players?
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@Chris-B. I think it's easier to be seamless at 10 when you have the 2012 onwards version of Cruden and the 2016 version of Barrett (and the less deer in the headlights later version of Slade).
I didn't know they didn't tell Henry that Piri got injured in the warm up - who was they? The players?
@Nepia Wayne Smith and Deb Robinson, I think.
Apparently Piri got injured running his own extended goal-kicking session the day before.
In Henry's book (which I just looked at) Graham noticed Piri looked to be favouring his leg in the wrm-ups and said "What's wrong with Piri?" Smith said he didn't know and would find out - and did so - asked Deb Robinson. Found out that Piri had a less severe case of DC's aductor tear - but, Piri was confident it would be OK when it warmed up. So Robinson already knew and hadn't told the coaches.
I can't recall the source of where I saw or read that they still decided not to tell Graham about this because they didn't want to worry him - at a glance I couldn't see it in Graham's book, but it might have been in the Weight of the Nation or some subsequent interview.
Someone will know.
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Maybe clutching at straws but maybe the bun in the oven chez les Dagg will keep Israel in NZ...
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Maybe clutching at straws but maybe the bun in the oven chez les Dagg will keep Israel in NZ...
@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
Maybe clutching at straws but maybe the bun in the oven chez les Dagg will keep Israel in NZ...
Yep. I thought the same. Nicer to have the family support for your first one.
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@Billy-Tell said in Exodus 2017:
Maybe clutching at straws but maybe the bun in the oven chez les Dagg will keep Israel in NZ...
Yep. I thought the same. Nicer to have the family support for your first one.
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Charlie Faumuina to Stade Toulousain is now official
