Exodus 2017
-
@mimic said in Exodus 2017:
@Chris-B. said in Exodus 2017:
@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Yep, short career that could end at any time. Families to support. Easy to throw around the merc line, but I think a lot of people if they were honest would switch jobs if they were offered double or triple their salary, with a nice three year contract and the opportunity to see a bit of the world
I don't give too much credence to the "families to support" line.
Samoans have this thing called faalavelaves. Unless you're an islander, you would have no idea. But I don't blame you for knowing nothing about our way of life.
I see it the same as people being educated through the nz system and then leaving for overseas for better pay opportunities..
Good on Luatua.. I wish him all the best and hope he comes back with a tighter game lol..
But the point of the education system is to educate people so they can do the best in life whatever they choose to do, not so they stay within the system to make it the most full of smart people in the world.
A better analogy is a company training a guy they pulled out of the warehouse until he makes it into upper management. He may do a few years there but then fucks off to the competition saying look i have all this experience and all these skills. They would be justified in being annoyed because that person never paid back the resources that were put into developing them and would be taking many "secrets" from that development with them. Sure the guys natural skills abilities and hard work would have helped along the way but without the "system" he probably would have only ended up driving a forklift in the warehouse getting paid $5 more than what he started on.
@raznomore It's basically to show support, love and respect. I was on the receiving end of it a couple of times so I am grateful for it. I always complain about it though, but my siblings and I pay for my mums share when it comes to faalavelaves.
When there's an event like a funeral, wedding etc.. (not just close family, but extended family or people of the village), people gather and show their support by giving money/gifts.
@pukunui I was thinking more along the lines of uni education.. studying to be a doctor/engineer/accountant in nz, and then moving overseas for work after working 7 or so years in nz.
What secrets is Luatua going to share? Their coach is an ex-New Zealander. -
I still don't think you can compare rugby to a normal job that the majority of us plebs do, comparisons with the business world are often rolled but but don't quite fit.
It is disappointing Luatua is leaving, similarly Piutau at such a young age and at a point where they were finding thier feet.
As I have said before, easy for us to sit here on our moral high chairs, but with the money on offer (which takes into account t they are an injury away from ending thier careers) must make it a tough decision, and while that black jersey holds favour for some, others probably see things slightly differently.
I also don't see anything wrong with people calling them mercenaries, these guys need to realise plenty will sit in thier moral high hairs and judge them, as they have most of thier career anyway.
-
@raznomore It's basically to show support, love and respect. I was on the receiving end of it a couple of times so I am grateful for it. I always complain about it though, but my siblings and I pay for my mums share when it comes to faalavelaves.
When there's an event like a funeral, wedding etc.. (not just close family, but extended family or people of the village), people gather and show their support by giving money/gifts.
@pukunui I was thinking more along the lines of uni education.. studying to be a doctor/engineer/accountant in nz, and then moving overseas for work after working 7 or so years in nz.
What secrets is Luatua going to share? Their coach is an ex-New Zealander. -
I still don't think you can compare rugby to a normal job that the majority of us plebs do, comparisons with the business world are often rolled but but don't quite fit.
It is disappointing Luatua is leaving, similarly Piutau at such a young age and at a point where they were finding thier feet.
As I have said before, easy for us to sit here on our moral high chairs, but with the money on offer (which takes into account t they are an injury away from ending thier careers) must make it a tough decision, and while that black jersey holds favour for some, others probably see things slightly differently.
I also don't see anything wrong with people calling them mercenaries, these guys need to realise plenty will sit in thier moral high hairs and judge them, as they have most of thier career anyway.
@taniwharugby ...and we should resist as much as possible "normalizing" this Exodus from NZ. As seems to have happened in Jaapieland.
Losing people like Luatua and Cruden and Piutau hurts us at some level and the "there's always someone who steps up" thinking is a bit like cod fishing on the Grand Banks - eventually you do run out.
So I think we should resist the "good on him, he's earned it" line and give these guys a bit of stick. And Hansen has. And I think it's been slightly effective - certainly hit a nerve with Pat Lam - who might think twice before he lines up his next NZ player!
-
@taniwharugby ...and we should resist as much as possible "normalizing" this Exodus from NZ. As seems to have happened in Jaapieland.
Losing people like Luatua and Cruden and Piutau hurts us at some level and the "there's always someone who steps up" thinking is a bit like cod fishing on the Grand Banks - eventually you do run out.
So I think we should resist the "good on him, he's earned it" line and give these guys a bit of stick. And Hansen has. And I think it's been slightly effective - certainly hit a nerve with Pat Lam - who might think twice before he lines up his next NZ player!
@Chris-B. I Hate losing any player, I think it is the loss of players like Luatua (fringe AB's, excellent Super players) that hurts NZ rugby the most rather than a sprinkling of ABs in thier twilights...although I think they have an awful lot they could give back too, so again, hate losing any player!
PIutau is an exception I think, where he had an opening to claim a starting spot but took the cash, Luatua has Read blocking him at 8, has competition with Dixon & Elliot for the back up 6 spot form Kaino at the moment, so like plenty others have done, taken the 'easier' route.
I think most of these guys always say they want to come back, but we know that this is highly unlikely to happen in that they probably wont, or if they do, they will probably not be the player they were.
-
@Chris-B. I Hate losing any player, I think it is the loss of players like Luatua (fringe AB's, excellent Super players) that hurts NZ rugby the most rather than a sprinkling of ABs in thier twilights...although I think they have an awful lot they could give back too, so again, hate losing any player!
PIutau is an exception I think, where he had an opening to claim a starting spot but took the cash, Luatua has Read blocking him at 8, has competition with Dixon & Elliot for the back up 6 spot form Kaino at the moment, so like plenty others have done, taken the 'easier' route.
I think most of these guys always say they want to come back, but we know that this is highly unlikely to happen in that they probably wont, or if they do, they will probably not be the player they were.
@taniwharugby Yeah - I don't mind so much people like Danny Boy, Nonu and Conrad - whose time is more or less up - heading to France. If they didn't do that there's a fair chance they'd have followed McCaw into retirement - or hung around on the treadmill collecting a paycheck and potentially blocking the development of the Barretts, Mo'ungas, Crottys and Lienert-Browns.
-
@raznomore said in Exodus 2017:
@mimic Im samoan - Im razbra. I wanted to know how it had entered the discussion
Chris didn't buy his "Supporting the family" claim. Some people think it's just a line, but for Samoans, supporting the family is very true. It's not just providing for your family like normal, but also with faalavelaves that us Samoans have to deal with.
-
@raznomore said in Exodus 2017:
@mimic Im samoan - Im razbra. I wanted to know how it had entered the discussion
Chris didn't buy his "Supporting the family" claim. Some people think it's just a line, but for Samoans, supporting the family is very true. It's not just providing for your family like normal, but also with faalavelaves that us Samoans have to deal with.
@mimic I guess, to clarify - someone like Luatua is surely earning at least $200K just from his Blues and Auckland play. If he makes the ABs you can add at least another $100K to that.
In my view, you're already "supporting the family" pretty well as a 25 year old on $200K and with several years of similar earnings in the bank.
To be fair to Luatua, he came out and said the offer was huge and night and day to what NZR was offering. I reckon it's a lot more "show me the money" than "supporting the family".
-
Vietchy despite being a dick . does get good mail ,
He said yesterday , he has heard the deal was huge , so Luatua probably weighed up the pros and cons of perhaps being an AB if the cards fall his way vs big bucks ...... and took the coin ,
even though its a disappointing scenario for NZ rugby that this shit continues to happen , I get his decision
-
Vietchy despite being a dick . does get good mail ,
He said yesterday , he has heard the deal was huge , so Luatua probably weighed up the pros and cons of perhaps being an AB if the cards fall his way vs big bucks ...... and took the coin ,
even though its a disappointing scenario for NZ rugby that this shit continues to happen , I get his decision
@kiwiinmelb I suspect seeing the athleticism and physicality of Akira Ioane in training may have influenced him as well. He's up against Squire, Dixon, Kaino, with Shields and Ioane coming on. SOmeone offers you an escape hatch - why the hell not
Same with Piutau. When the money rains out of the sky, at some stage you'd be mad not to take it.
-
@raznomore said in Exodus 2017:
@mimic Im samoan - Im razbra. I wanted to know how it had entered the discussion
Chris didn't buy his "Supporting the family" claim. Some people think it's just a line, but for Samoans, supporting the family is very true. It's not just providing for your family like normal, but also with faalavelaves that us Samoans have to deal with.
@mimic said in Exodus 2017:
@raznomore said in Exodus 2017:
@mimic Im samoan - Im razbra. I wanted to know how it had entered the discussion
Chris didn't buy his "Supporting the family" claim. Some people think it's just a line, but for Samoans, supporting the family is very true. It's not just providing for your family like normal, but also with faalavelaves that us Samoans have to deal with.
Oh eye sea! Yeah its hard to understand that aspect of our culture, from the outside looking in. Its not only an obligation but an expectation - in some of my extended family anyway.
-
Thankfully we depth built to cope atm but this will only be tested after injuries and tough test matches. Back in the day when we lost Gallagher and Ridge we had to revert back to Crowley and we took years to find a fulltime quality 15 ( we also lost Timu later).
This season I reckon will test us - the Lions if they get selections right will be extremely strong, I think the Irish loss was a result of the RC giving us poor competition due to Oz and SA being well below par.
I can't wait be good to see some real tests -
@raznomore said in Exodus 2017:
@mimic Im samoan - Im razbra. I wanted to know how it had entered the discussion
Chris didn't buy his "Supporting the family" claim. Some people think it's just a line, but for Samoans, supporting the family is very true. It's not just providing for your family like normal, but also with faalavelaves that us Samoans have to deal with.
@mimic said in Exodus 2017:
@raznomore said in Exodus 2017:
@mimic Im samoan - Im razbra. I wanted to know how it had entered the discussion
Chris didn't buy his "Supporting the family" claim. Some people think it's just a line, but for Samoans, supporting the family is very true. It's not just providing for your family like normal, but also with faalavelaves that us Samoans have to deal with.
As someone completely ignorant of faalavelaves - does someone being publicaly wealthy make them a greater "target" for more requests for benevolence?
-
@mimic said in Exodus 2017:
@raznomore said in Exodus 2017:
@mimic Im samoan - Im razbra. I wanted to know how it had entered the discussion
Chris didn't buy his "Supporting the family" claim. Some people think it's just a line, but for Samoans, supporting the family is very true. It's not just providing for your family like normal, but also with faalavelaves that us Samoans have to deal with.
Oh eye sea! Yeah its hard to understand that aspect of our culture, from the outside looking in. Its not only an obligation but an expectation - in some of my extended family anyway.
@raznomore @mimic
I can understand this somewhat as my wife is Hong Kong Chinese and they have a very similar mindset in their culture. My wife and her brother both contribute a fortnightly amount to their parents, especially to their Mum. There are other such traditions where family are expected to help family and show respect to elders. As another example, in Chinese culture, there is a specific title which you are meant to address those older than you.One thing that annoys me a bit is that the expectations are set quite high as my brother in law is a Radiologist, single and has money falling from every orifice whereas my wife and I struggling financially due to an ongoing nightmare in court that I have alluded to previously in another thread.
So the Parents, Aunties and Uncles expect the same level of gifts from us as they do from her brother.
-
@raznomore @mimic
I can understand this somewhat as my wife is Hong Kong Chinese and they have a very similar mindset in their culture. My wife and her brother both contribute a fortnightly amount to their parents, especially to their Mum. There are other such traditions where family are expected to help family and show respect to elders. As another example, in Chinese culture, there is a specific title which you are meant to address those older than you.One thing that annoys me a bit is that the expectations are set quite high as my brother in law is a Radiologist, single and has money falling from every orifice whereas my wife and I struggling financially due to an ongoing nightmare in court that I have alluded to previously in another thread.
So the Parents, Aunties and Uncles expect the same level of gifts from us as they do from her brother.
@RoninWC I sympathise with you there RoninWC - in same situation.
I actually don't mind the part of the culture of supporting parents, it's not a bad thing. But it's the expectation and little gratitude that fucks me right off. My wife doesn't even work anymore, so I basically help support her father.
Never get any thanks, only hint after hint followed by guilt trip, after expectation that we regularly fly him out to see us. Fucks me right off.
-
@mimic I guess, to clarify - someone like Luatua is surely earning at least $200K just from his Blues and Auckland play. If he makes the ABs you can add at least another $100K to that.
In my view, you're already "supporting the family" pretty well as a 25 year old on $200K and with several years of similar earnings in the bank.
To be fair to Luatua, he came out and said the offer was huge and night and day to what NZR was offering. I reckon it's a lot more "show me the money" than "supporting the family".
Being reported that he'll be on £650,000 a season. That's set your family up for a long time money and probably pretty difficult to say no to for someone not currently in an All Black shirt. No doubt some would turn it down, but it gives a bit of perspective.
-
Keane off to Connacht I see. I always found a bit weird that the Chiefs have chosen to go back to Colin Cooper, after that it's no surprise that Keane is leaving. A good signing for Connacht.
-
The official media release from Connacht about the appointment of Keane:
http://www.connachtrugby.ie/kieran-keane-appointed-new-head-coach/#ConnachtNews -
Being reported that he'll be on £650,000 a season. That's set your family up for a long time money and probably pretty difficult to say no to for someone not currently in an All Black shirt. No doubt some would turn it down, but it gives a bit of perspective.
@Margin_Walker said in Exodus 2017:
Being reported that he'll be on £650,000 a season. That's set your family up for a long time money and probably pretty difficult to say no to for someone not currently in an All Black shirt. No doubt some would turn it down, but it gives a bit of perspective.
Yep - and at Luatua's age and situation I can't say I definitely would have turned it down, myself.
But, that's not going to stop me criticizing or noting that he's making off with 17 cents worth of my contribution to NZ rugby's intellectual property.
@Bovidae No surprise that KK is off. He can even have my 17 cents.
Doesn't seem to be one of NZ rugby's favoured sons and, in fact, seems to have been dealt the arse card, possibly by more than just the Chiefs.
Be interesting to see how he goes at Connacht.
