Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?
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I could write a book about this!
There are about 7 grades of NZ pro rugby contract
1st Full
2nd Draft
3rd Interim
4th Development
5th Sevens
6th Provincial
7th Provincial DevelopmentThat covers all professional rugby players in NZ.
All are NZRU employees and must be available for national teams.
About 700 players.As I understand it . . . .
There are probably about 150 full contracts out there; 30 for each Super team and maybe a couple of outliers (Savea for example). Plus the Black Ferns.
A full contract is divided into two components, the NZ component and the Super component.
Max Super component is 195G, min 75.A draft contract is for players drafted in for a single competition; currently there are 6 draft players per Super team.
So not many out there on draft contracts.An interim contract covers all players brought in temporarily.
The player you are talking about would have been on one of these contracts.
Dropping him out of the squad would probably be a budgetary/CEA consideration. The original player having to be on the list if he was now fit and available. Not being able to flick a player on a draft/full contract.Development contracts seem to be for young players that NZR basically just wants to have stick around. To stop them going overseas I’m guessing. PU’s doing the same with their Dev contracts. Probably not many of these.
Sevens contracts; about 40 of them; 20 boys, 20 girls.
Provincial contracts; a multitude of these.
Each PU must have a minimum of 26 of these (plus AB's)
The interesting thing here is that while these contracts are separate to NZ contracts, all NZ contracted players must also have a Provincial contract. So those on NZ contracts actually have 2 contracts.NZR would have to be the largest single employer of rugby players in the world.
I don’t think it operates like this anywhere else in the rugby world.
Good luck to whoever keeps on top of this at NZR.Made a few assumptions, but off the top of my head; that's sort of how I understand it.
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@Jet said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
What do you mean suffer?
He’s in the squad and has been selected as a 10/15. Plus we’ve had a gut full of BB and DMac running the cutter. No time like the present.
He is 2 years older than Sua'ali'.
If you are good enough you are old enough.
Agreed, plus it's also a case of doesn't picking them in the squad but not playing them undermine their confidence?
Love has started one game this test season and was thrown on at the end of the debacle in Wellington..... Its doesn't seem like a ringing endorsement of your abilities as a player when you get such small rations of playing time and it also means you get a much smaller window of time to impress and get some experience.
If nothing else you aren't building any kind of depth in the squad - you are just showing that you are only prepared to take risks in selection when you have no other choice. Then, once those players are finally selected they are thrown in the deep end and then they drown.
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So far this year Love has started one test match - v France where he had a reasonable game and was pretty solid under the high ball at fullback.
Then if I'm not mistaken he was not involved in any other game until he was brought on in the 65th minute at left wing (he's supposed to be a 10/15) in a game where they were losing 24-10.
I'd love to ask Razor "do you think that Ruben Love was adequately prepared to come on at the business end of a game v the Springboks and play out of position?".
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
No time like the present.
It'd be good if Robertson could be bold, but I think that ship sailed last year and disappeared over the horizon with the BA & Caketin losses. He needs to win at any cost now as his survival depends on it - and that means taking minimal risks.
Be delighted to be proved wrong but think Coach Jesus in a real bind of his own making.
Great idea - try to save his job by selecting the guys who have put his job at risk.
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I think our midfield and outsides will continue to.steuggle while played outside BB, who plays in front of these guys is largely irrelevant, BB is where our problems really start with his lack of structure and also seems to be lacking in attacking vision aimlessly kicking away good possession and not.attacking the line as he once.would.
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@junior said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
No time like the present.
It'd be good if Robertson could be bold, but I think that ship sailed last year and disappeared over the horizon with the BA & Caketin losses. He needs to win at any cost now as his survival depends on it - and that means taking minimal risks.
Be delighted to be proved wrong but think Coach Jesus in a real bind of his own making.
Great idea - try to save his job by selecting the guys who have put his job at risk.
Yep. Pretty much the state we are in.
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@taniwharugby said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
I think our midfield and outsides will continue to.steuggle while played outside BB, who plays in front of these guys is largely irrelevant, BB is where our problems really start with his lack of structure and also seems to be lacking in attacking vision aimlessly kicking away good possession and not.attacking the line as he once.would.
There does seem to be a BB love-in. When he got his NZRFU contract last year, I thought a decent idea to have backup experience on the bench to develop on new talent at 10 and 15.
How wrong I was.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
What do you mean suffer?
He’s in the squad and has been selected as a 10/15. Plus we’ve had a gut full of BB and DMac running the cutter. No time like the present.
I really wish people would stop lumping McKenzie in with Barrett. Barrett has played every important minute at 10 this season, it's entirely his shit-show, and blaming a guy who has spent almost all his time on the bench or coming on at fullback when wingers get injured - and playing pretty well there - is just fucking weird.
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@reprobate said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
What do you mean suffer?
He’s in the squad and has been selected as a 10/15. Plus we’ve had a gut full of BB and DMac running the cutter. No time like the present.
I really wish people would stop lumping McKenzie in with Barrett. Barrett has played every important minute at 10 this season, it's entirely his shit-show, and blaming a guy who has spent almost all his time on the bench or coming on at fullback when wingers get injured - and playing pretty well there - is just fucking weird.
So true
I feel for Proctor his whole chance of being a decent 13 at test level has been sabotaged by having BB at 10- even Jordi is suffering,
Dmac is levels better -
@reprobate said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
I really wish people would stop lumping McKenzie in with Barrett.
I still reckon McKenzie is a better 10, and can be coached to an even better level. That game we lost against SA he created a shedload, but just missed on some final execution. I'd rather have that than the shovel pass chip kick shit I get served up from BB.
Best performance of the ABs under Razor: arguably Ireland 2024. Who was at 10? DMac.
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@kidcalder said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
So true
I feel for Proctor his whole chance of being a decent 13 at test level has been sabotaged by having BB at 10- even Jordi is suffering,Jordie must be pissed off that big brother has thrown him so many hospital passes this season. No chance he'll actually be put into space.
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@nonpartizan said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@Crazy-Horse said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
In Super rugby for example, I was surprised to learn that someone who was brought in for injury cover has to make way when the original player is available again, no matter how well they played.
I had no idea. That's a pretty insane rule.
So, these contracts handcuff coaches to an extent.
Salary caps come into play in Super, and bringing in injured players doesn't effect your salary cap, but does when player is fit again. You are able to keep injury replacements if you got room under salary cap, ie Daniel Rona for Chiefs a couple of years back. I don't think any team has had to release a player brought in if they want to keep him. There is always some players injured.
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Actually is Rona a future 13 option? From what I've seen he is solid if not a flashy player.
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You could pick prime frank bunce at centre and it would make zero difference in our current shape outside these players. The centres are set up to fail.
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@mariner4life Exactly. If we're not going to fix the actual problem, we may as well pick Ioane as he is the best defender and riles a few fluffybunnies up.
It would be better if we actually fixed it though. -
I’d settle for Robertson dropping Beauden Barrett and Savea. That alone would show he recognises the problems those players are bringing to the team and wants to move forward.
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@Jet said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
What do you mean suffer?
He’s in the squad and has been selected as a 10/15. Plus we’ve had a gut full of BB and DMac running the cutter. No time like the present.
He is 2 years older than Sua'ali'.
If you are good enough you are old enough.
My prediction is Love (now 24 years old) will leave New Zealand soon after the World Cup, with around a dozen test caps to his name, many of which will consist of ten-minute cameos. He’s just not getting a look in.
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@reprobate said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ACT-Crusader said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
@ARHS said in Should this week's test be the ushering-in of a new era for All Blacks?:
Where is all the Love for starting 10 stuff coming from? Do people want to see him suffer in a no win situation this early in his career?
What do you mean suffer?
He’s in the squad and has been selected as a 10/15. Plus we’ve had a gut full of BB and DMac running the cutter. No time like the present.
I really wish people would stop lumping McKenzie in with Barrett. Barrett has played every important minute at 10 this season, it's entirely his shit-show, and blaming a guy who has spent almost all his time on the bench or coming on at fullback when wingers get injured - and playing pretty well there - is just fucking weird.
C'mon DMac has had plenty of chances at 10 and has been repeatedly found wanting. Neither are the answer. The cupboard is bare. FFS Jordie would probably do a better job than either. At least he has a boot on him. I would take any poor man's version of Grant Fox at this point.
