The Silver Fern

@Catogrande
That was the 2021 tour.

@Dodge and I are recalling 2009.

@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

My memory of the 2009 tour is that the test matches were great (and sorry i wasn't clear that they were and were well supported) but the midweek games etc were hosted in empty stadiums in weird places and players weren't released - it felt so so different from 1997 where every game was a cauldron.

You may well be right, and truth be told, what one remembers does become fact for the purposes of one's perception. I am as prone to that as anyone.

For fun, below the fixtures and results:

I can't recall whether Boks were withheld from the non-test games. Highly probable.
I do recall that Bok fans and the local media all felt the Springboks were going into that first test undercooked.

Thought provoking post @Dodge
The concern I have with Lions Tours is the media circus it has become (my perception - in which I may well be alone, granted).
I think for the players, both Lions tourists and the respective host nation players, it remains something incredibly special. It is likely highly unrealistic, but I wouldn't mind if it returned to being a celebration of rugby, rather than the win-at-all-costs scenarios it now feels like.

As I said - that is my perception and others are well entitled to feel otherwise.

As for future tours, the history of the current set-up works well I think. If they had to fiddle with it, then an Argentina inclusion would be my suggestion. Otherwise, leave a time-tested concept alone.

One aside question Dodge: what did you mean by:
@Dodge said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:

South Africa would likely deserve a tour and I hope they would put more effort into it than they did in 2009

My memory is that it was a tight, enthralling series, with great rugby and it was very well supported in SA. What did you perceive differently?

@Bones said in Wallabies v Lions II:

@Billy-Webb should go for an all Irish starting XV. Maybe make the bench all Scotland and Wales just for shits n giggles.

Hahaha. That would ruffle some feathers.

As a neural, well done to the Lions and congrats to their fans.
I thought the Wallabies put up an epic fight and for the sake of drama - going to a 3rd test decider - I was hoping they'd done enough.
Some on field calls that are talking points for sure. But that's rugby. We (and I completely include myself in that) tend to focus on one or two calls when the result goes the "wrong way". But largely, for 80 minutes, I thought it was a well refereed game. Some misses, of course, but broadly evenly balanced.

So what now for the 3rd test?
Does Andy Farrell give some fringe players a run? Or does he go for the clean sheet?

@sparky said in WR U20 Championship 2025:

@OomPB

Congratulations to the Baby Boks. A special squad with some excellent players. The Half Back looks ready to play Test Rugby already.

Rassie has picked 3 of the U20 youngsters to attend the next 2-week Springbok training camp coming up in JHB.

It's only to familiarize themselves with the Bok coaching set up - and I guess for the coaches to start early guidance, but still impressive for those 3 lads.

Gosh yes. The universe has really played with Darcy.
Nope.
Okay.
Okay - Yes!
Nope.

It must suck for him. My sporting commiserations.

Incidentally, I would love to see Pollock come in off the bench. Think he will bring some zing to affairs.

I am deliberately going to ignore debating the legality or "spirit" of each of the 2 new tricks the Boks put on show in this game.

What I am pleased about, is that a team that was derided for playing boring, structured (read: kick, chase, defend) rugby in 2019 has now reached a point where they try out all sorts of (granted sometimes a bit daft) stuff.
Fun to watch, but yes, not the be-all and end-all of what will win test matches.

@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v France:

@stodders said in All Blacks v France:

@Billy-Webb Most probably. Apologies @Billy-Tell. I got my Billys mixed up

To tell the truth you’re sort of correct. My dad was South African but moved to NZ in the 1970s where he met my kiwi mum. At that period, when you became kiwi you had to relinquish SA citizenship which my dad did (willingly). He considers himself a kiwi through and through and has lived more of his life in NZ than SA. As for me Kiwi + Swiss (through marriage). But yeah billy Webb. That guy can’t use a crossbow to save himself.

Hahaha. Touché.

I am more of a shotgun guy really.

@OomPB said in Springboks vs Wales:

Heard through the grapevines
Willie le Roux, Moodie, Am, AE, Mapimpi, Hendricks, Hendricks, Cameron Hanekom, Elrich Louw, Escom, Kleyn, Mostert , Thomas Tank, Grobbies, Steenkamp

Bench
Ox, Marx, Wilco, Etsebeth, Kolisi, PSdT, Williams, Libbok

I'd be pretty happy with that team Oom.
A little surprised about the inclusion of Ox - I assume the stitches will hold....

@OomPB

Lots of guys for Rassie to pick from.
I hope he blends experience with the need to give guys a run.

@Catogrande said in England vs Springboks:

@Billy-Webb

Interestingly, when both Curry and Underhill were playing for England together (2019) it was Underhill preferred at 7 with Curry switching to 6. It was actually quite a good balance and of course very quick. We had Billy V at 8 who was really beginning to show his age (although not actually that old) so we bloody well needed that extra speed.

Maybe I just haven't seen him in a while, but Underhill looked to me like he has bulked up quite a bit?

@Dodge said in England vs Springboks:

@Billy-Webb said in England vs Springboks:

@Dodge
On an unrelated note - am I over-hyping Sam Underhill's performance?
I thought he was immense.
Why is he not a permanent fixture in the match day 23?

No, I think he should be in the 23, and probably in the XV instead of Curry at this stage - I’ll be honest, I’ve never been much good at identifying the best 6 / 7s. Think we need CCS as he’s the best ball carrier in the tight, think Earl has to be in the back row and then am never sure who’s the best 7 out of Underhill and Curry.

Makes sense from what I have seen - CCS + Earl.
Then you have the luxury of staring either of Curry or Underhill and having the other off the bench.
For me, Underhill could cover 6 & 7

@mohikamo said in World rugby chair from the SH for the first time?:

for those who dont know who benazzi is
he had a match winning try disallowed in WC95 semi vs SA
monsoon game, he definitely scored imo
no tmo in those days
would have meant a NZ v france final, and whole different rugby history
i wasn't concerned at the time, thought we were easily good enough to beat anyone

It certainly was close.
Having watched that game and that incident a few times - not sure whether he did or did not score.

Unlike Reuben Kruger in the final though

@Dodge said in Springboks vs Wales:

It kills me that Esterhuizen would walk into any other team in the world and only gets to carry the water for SA. They made him watch the England warm up last week. Being a Quins fan, having André the giant outside Smith was Quins greatest strength

Tough when the guy ahead of you is de Allende!

But yes - I am a big Esterhuizen fan.
I never stress when I see him on the team sheet. The guy will deliver.

@Dodge
On an unrelated note - am I over-hyping Sam Underhill's performance?
I thought he was immense.
Why is he not a permanent fixture in the match day 23?

@OomPB

I expect Rassie will blend in a few of the newbies.
For me, Hanekom is a must. He deserves a chance to show what he can do one step up.

@MiketheSnow said in Springboks vs Wales:

Result is a foregone conclusion

Would love to see both sides running it with abandon

75-40 to the Boks

The odds do seem stacked against you guys Mike.
But for some reason, Wales is always problematic for the Boks so while I am optimistic, I am not expecting a blow-out.

And agreed - would be great if both teams played fearlessly. Would make for a fun watch.

@Catogrande said in England vs Springboks:

@Billy-Webb

OK, first question. In truth there aren’t that many playing abroad that would realistically be in contention. Jack Willis, Henry Arundell and Farrell. The former two stayed over in France due to being overlooked and or messed around by England and Farrell’ issues are fairly clear, plus he’s near the end of his International career. I can’t think of too many more tbh.

Playing Marcus Smith at 10, with Farrell at 12 would be a step up though surely?

Last test of the year for the Boks.

The team I would love to see:

1. Steenekamp (to make up for the YC and get some more experience).
2. Mbonambi
3. W. Louw
4. Etsebeth
5. RG Snyman
6. Kolisi
7. Elrich Louw
8. Wiese
9. Reinach (deserves a longer outing)
10. Libbok
11. Kolbe (would rest him, but need his versatility should Willie get injured)
12. Esterhuizen (deserves a run)
13. Am (due an extended run)
14. Moodie (good to get more experience)
15. Le Roux (will go to 99 caps)

Bench: 6 - 2

Ox (if fit)
Marx
Koch
PSDT (can cover lock too)
Kwagga
Cameron Hanekom (super keen to see this lad in Green & Gold)
Pollard
Grant