The Silver Fern

What. A. Great. Game.
So close for the Pumas. But well done England.

@MiketheSnow said in Bokke vs Ireland:

Nah

Full strength SA with no brain farts will win by a stretch

By full strength do we mean the team that is picked, or being able to keep 15 men on the pitch or both?

For what it is worth, while I am loving the Boks at the moment, I don't buy in to the absolute favourites tag.
If the Boks are not close to 100% I believe a number of top teams can roll them. Ireland definitely being one of them.
Going to be very nervous for this one.

Oh my goodness.
What a delicious performance by the Pumas.
So loved that. Bien Hecho!

@W32 said in Italy vs Springboks:

@Billy-Webb said in Italy vs Springboks:

Ok. I will say it.
Bullshit straight red against Mostert.
Well done to the Boks C-team despite that.

Really naive play by mostert. It’s a bullshit red but in the current climate of the game he was dumb.

Franco is tackling. No malice, and his technique is decent.
Players in possession move shape when another tackles them. Changes timing for the 2nd guy lining them up.
Nothing naïve from Mostert. Just piss-poor appreciation of the actual game by the officials who then rely on frame-by-frame stills.

@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:

@Billy-Webb Not joking. Let’s assume that Rennie or JJ or another kiwi aren’t coming in to hang around and advise, someone like Uncle Jakey would be perfect as an outsider.

It would certainly be interesting.
2 years honeymoon, then I think the wheels would come off.

@game_film said in England Vs All Blacks:

@W32 Jake White

I assume that was in jest. If not:
Good coach for Sa'ns.
Not sure he'd be your guy.

Ok. I will say it.
Bullshit straight red against Mostert.
Well done to the Boks C-team despite that.

Gents:
We seem to have moved the thread conversation considerably away from the Boks v Pumas game that took place some time ago. I'm all for HEALTHY debate.
But this is not the thread for us to revisit pre and including 1995 RWC's and some of the nefarious characters involved back then.
By all means, continue that conversation in SPORTS TALK, but let's focus on relevant game commentary / thoughts / analysis in this thread please.

@OomPB said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@Billy-Webb Jan Hendrik Wessels isn't a good measure for any TH. Now it was Ox I will agree.

I agree with you - up to a point Oom. Wessels hasn't impressed me (yet).
But the reality is he has been picked as a Bok, so he can't be all that bad? (Despite my misgivings).
And he did get owned by Rapetti in the scrums a good few times.

@MiketheSnow said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

@cgrant said in Springboks v Argentina Twickenham:

Sacha Feinberg is the new star of the game. A future star has made his debut at Twickenham : Tomas Rapetti, the 20 y.o. Argies THP who came off the bench during the second spell. He's an absolute beast, just ask Malcom Marx who was bumped off while trying to tackle him. He was playing during the June U20 World Cup where he looked like a man among boys.

Very impressed by the young fella

If you're referring to Tomas Rapetti, I'm in complete agreement.
He already looked completely at home in International Rugby, and the Bok scrum dominance waned markedly with his introduction.
At 20, he is an infant in prop terms. Imagine how good he will be with a few years experience under the belt!

@Mauss
Wow. I don't know enough about NZ rugby players to comment on the veracity of your analysis.
But i so epically applaud the depth of it. Great work. Food for debate.

@Jet
I'm a decade and a half ahead older than you in terms of vintage. For whatever that is worth?

I appreciate the frustration, and the lengthy post and suggestions.
Rugby has always had this interpretation challenge. It's a ridiculously technical book of laws. And WR does seem to go out of its way to tinker endlessly with the laws which only further complicates matters.

My point being refs try their best with the rules they have at hand. Sometimes they manage it better than other days.
These last 2 games today, I think they did fine.

@mohikamo
I actually watched both games.
Officiating was fine.
The AB v Wallabies game probably the best.
Sure, mistakes were made. But on balance, absolutely fine.

Great game by the Pumas.
Boks were markedly off their best, and some very dumb / elementary errors.
Moodie lucky not to get a second yellow - and red card.
BUT: they did enough (and sometimes played really well). Well done.

@stodders said in Boks v Pumas II - Twickers:

It. Will. Be. Raining.

Meh.
Not sure that favours any of the 2 teams either way.
It will be what it will be.
And, (don't shoot me right now), maybe by that time the Wallabies will have done the dirty on the ABs already

So despite what I had heard, Damian is good to go and starts again at 15.
That means the backs are unchanged.
Ox is back, so a bit of reshuffling on the bench - delighted to see Bongi there.
Ditto for Grant Williams.

5-3 split.
I feel a bit for Andre Esterhuizen, but Jessie getting a run out is good too.
Same goes a bit for Pollard, but it seems we are doubling down on Tony-ball.

@booboo said in Boks v Pumas II - Twickers:

What percentage of the crowd are people who don't want to live in South Africa?

Cute. Glad NZ aren't facing a bit of a brain-drain crisis form their youth at the moment then

On to the rugby with less pithy commentary:
There will be some interesting shuffling in that Bok 23.
Willemse is likely out, which leaves only Willie as an out-and-out 15.
Not sure he'll crack the nod though. Quite possible that SFM goes to 15, with Libbok at 10 and Pollard on the bench?

I also suspect Andre Esterhuizen will be given a start at 12.
Forwards - meh. Same lot, maybe just some differences on who starts and who gets that bomb squad duty.

@NTA Good summation as always Nick.

The Bok defence is a worry for me. Playing a more expansive game has resulted in the defence not being as structured and prepared as in the past. Maybe that is the price one has to pay. But, if the Boks can improve on this while still playing a more attacking game, then they will be in a good place.
If not, then you can see the sort of dismantling we suffered at the hands of the Wallabies at Ellis Park.

Credit to the Pumas. The scoreline looks nasty, but they actually were in it for a large chunk of the game.

We can argue about a few choices, but largely a good 23.
A 5-3 split that can, in a pinch, function as a 6-2 or even a 7-1 if required with Kwagga and Andre-the-giant on the wood.
But permutations aside, this is a team than can bring it. But, will they deliver on the day?

@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:

Fist half thoughts:

Early on the ABs looked good if a little shaky under line speed pressure.

The first AB try was very nice. The intercept from Kolbe was a lack of eyes-up play by Proctor. Could have scored at the other end but the pace got to him.

Vaai is a dickhead. Not really a profound observation maybe he should concentrate on pushing at scrums instead of clapping and laughing?

Wiesse is the avatar of rip and tear.

Boks scrum going great guns with 30 gone.

B Barrett looking ponderous and slow. He doesn't like heavy traffic. Failed to exit right before half-time which was a basic bitch error.

New Bok winger is bloody useful.

AB defensive line noticeably crooked. Pushing hard in the first 2 channels but lagging a bit wider.

AB Lineout at 35:50 - wtf happened??

Everyone playing as frantically as a virgin couple on their wedding night. With about as satisfying a result.

Lot of injuries and HIA.

Impression: Boks are ascendant but not finishing their opportunities. ABs are attacking from depth - too deep IMHO - but lacking a bit of subtlety; not much in the way of deception.

Bed time. Second half tomorrow.

Great overall insights as ever Nick.
The bolded bit is not so much because I feel you're wrong - too much - but more because on replay you have to admire how Cheslin pressured him to pass, with the intention of then trying for the intercept.