The Silver Fern

Celebrating in London with a bottle of champagne. Can’t quite believe we are now cricket world champions. I’m the purest form of the game no less.

I always thought we would/should win this - based on venue, seam attacks, dukes ball, build up matches, having a great side etc.

Hard to have the same conviction at 2 down today but you have to have faith in our captain and 2 all time highest runscorers.

Which I did.

After the World Cup final in 2019, I just though that NZ aren’t meant to win these kind of things, that the cricketing gods won’t allow it.

But here we are, taking all the experience, pain and learning from the last 2 final defeats and slowly building a wonderful side in the process to banish that pain and emerge, quite emphatically, as test world champions.

What a team, what a group of cricketers and coaches to make this happen!

So proud of them and NZ cricket right now. Enjoy this guys, as it won’t get any better than this

It’s really hard to gauge where we are at against the opposition we have faced over the last 2 weeks. But I guess most countries are in a very similar position in that regard.

The forwards have been the biggest issue for 3-4 years now and we seem to be in gradual decline there still, even though we have publicly acknowledged this is the area that we are focussing on to turn around and bring physicality back to our pack.

I haven’t seen any real evidence of this and I do wonder what would happen if we meet South Africa on a day when their pack is on fire.

It has got me wondering about the direction of All Black rugby and New Zealand rugby overall. Specifically, how does New Zealand rugby strategise for the development of the professional game, the style of play and also the type of player we are producing for international rugby?

I always assumed this direction was done through the All Blacks mgmt and coaching but it seems like we are out of synch with the way the rugby world is going in a number of areas.

Firstly, the forwards we produce for the All Blacks for a long time now are much leaner than their counterparts in the NH and SA. We all know we don’t produce the same amount of big men as these sides traditionally but we seem to be continuing down the leaner, mobile type of players even though rugby has changed - it’s slower, with more stoppages and it becomes harder to fatigue teams as we once used to be able to do.

This approach was found out against a fired up England in the RWC semi final. It was an embarrassing loss. One glaring area was the work of England’s tight 5 compared to ours. Set piece as well as in the loose.

Secondly, we have never solved the rush defence problem that first presented itself against The Lions. Other teams have managed to score tries against those defences but it is still our kryptonite. The dual playmaker was a desperate attempt by Hansen in my view as he realised he couldn’t win the World Cup after the Irish loss in 2018. Ironically our best performance came in the qtr final against Ireland. But, by then, it was evident that getting up for 3 big games in a row were beyond that All Black group.

Thirdly, defence. Why have we not employed the same type of rush defence that we have so much trouble with? I get it is perfect against NZ and other teams don’t try to play like we do but surely if we find it so difficult why are we persisting with other defensive structures that do not provide the necessary solidity or turnover options. We might understand how to attack it better if we used the rush defences our opponents use against us.

I actually can’t recall the last piece of innovation that Come out of NZ rugby that had the rest of the world trying to catch up. Interesting how no one has adopted the dual playmaker from RWC2019.

Then I wondered whether it’s because of our set up? Hansen’s last gig as a head coach was 2003 before taking the reins in 2012. Foster’s last gig as a head coach was 2010.

Is being an asst coaches for so long in an All Blacks environment really the best preparation for leading the All Blacks? A side always under pressure to be the best side in the world?

It seems very insular in its thinking to me that we have coaches wrapped up in a largely All Black winning bubble, for a long period of time, and then expect them to keep ahead of the rest of the world. Hansen ran out of ideas (and motivation?) after the Lions series and the loss of some all time great All Blacks after 2015. To expect Foster to be the man to bring the All Blacks back to the summit of world rugby is probably asking far too much of him.

What’s the answer? Is it time to ditch the continuity? Do we need a coach with more recent head coach experience, do we need to change the way we condition players, particularly forwards? Do the All Blacks/NZ rugby need to learn more from NH rugby to improve/change our approach? Have we fallen behind other countries/clubs in innovation?

The answer to all of these questions seem to be a resounding ‘yes’

Christ, the doom and gloom on here is actually beyond comprehension.

It’s pretty clear that we weren’t prepared for a fired up bok team and we essentially played most of the match with 14 players.

Nothing has changed for the ABs apart from them getting a huge wake up call and that they need to be at their best to win the World Cup or even have a decent showing.

We have 7 weeks to get ourselves in the best shape we possibly can for the 1/4 final.

That was true before the saffa match and it is still true today.

The France game doesn’t really have any bearing on the 1/4 final as there is no real reward for winning that game as we are going to face either SA or Ireland.

7 weeks to get Into the best shape possible and then go into that game with full noise.

Win that one and then you’ve got 6 days etc….

It’s pretty simple really - that’s why the saffa’s are so good at RWC’s - it’s a simple formula and one they can understand.

@TJ

If Da Frizzell had played like this in his earlier test matches then there wouldn’t have been any criticism of him. It’s only in the last 2 matches where he has played to this standard.

Long May it continue

@frugby

You mean about this ‘not returning a phone call’?

I think that is ridiculous it was even made public.

A 24 yr old young man, had his career aspirations crushed by a punitive decision to not even include him in a AB squad, meaning he won’t make the RWC squad and not even get in the 2nd team.

It was also a decision that had a major financial impact on him.

It would have him thinking if he had a future in NZ or if he needed to look overseas.

But somehow, it’s all his fault because He didn’t return a phone call within 48 hours of having his world completely thrown into turmoil.

It’s complete bullshit

Ireland were very good today and deserved their win. No complaints.

The ABs were poor and made to look very ordinary by a committed Ireland side who wanted to put us under pressure from the get go.

The AB’s are the best side in the world until they come up against a team that wants to tackle and pressure us. This had shades of the 2019 semi against England.

I have said for some time that NZ rugby are not producing the right kind of players for test rugby that can be successful in RWCs and against the very top sides. Ireland in the autumn is definitely one of those.

A lot has been made of the ABs wanting to play unstructured rugby. We are good at it. However, we either dont understand how or can’t break down a side through our own structured rugby first, to enable us to get in a position where we force them into unstructured game scenarios - pressure them into turnovers, dropped balls, poor kicks etc.

Ireland are one of the most structured sides in the game and it showed throughout the match. They enjoyed a huge amount of possession in the first half and we hade to make over 140 tackles. In one half. That required defensive effort will always come back to hurt you later in the game.

At halftime we must have talked at length about holding on to the ball, having possession to play our game that allows territory and then opportunities will follow. We kicked the ball away 3 times in the first 3 minutes and Ireland duly scored. It’s not smart rugby.

We had a huge amount of dropped passes and threw the ball into touch a few times today. Lots of those dropped balls were unforced errors tbh and we looked a panicked side trying to attack against a composed and organised Irish defence. We couldnt impose ourselves enough to force Ireland into making errors or breaking up up their defensive organisation.

Perhaps the 16 week quarantine bubble tour has finally affected the squad and the performance of the team. We saw that with SA in the RC when they lost games they perhaps shouldn’t have.

The biggest frustration is we have known for 4 years we struggle when confronted with a side like this. For all the gains we have made this year, we haven’t addressed this massive problem at all and we looked as poor as we did that night against England in the RWC loss.

Do we have the players to turn this around? Is super rugby aotearoa and trans Ta$man rugby good enough preparation for how todays test rugby is played? Is it a surprise when the assistant coach who was part of the team that oversaw the decline of AB rugby over the last 3 years and the semi loss against England, is now the head coach and showing the same weaknesses in how his side performs?

Congrats to Ireland. Well played. Lots of work to do for the all black squad over the next couple of years.

Christ, the moaning and hysteria in this thread is reach 1999 levels and we have even played a fucking game yet!

@Yeahtheboys said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:

Is Scott Robertson the worst All Blacks coach of all time?

Dunno, but you saying that after he has been in charge for 2 months, has you in the running for worst AB supporter of all time.

ABs to wear black jersey in pool games.

Handy shandy won the toss off in Paris

That was a really tough test match. Probably a harder test match to watch than play in!

It’s disappointing that our standards drop when we come up against such that is in your face with such physicality.

It shows that while we have made progress this year, we shone familiar frailties when faced with a side exerting a physical pressure game on us.

Perhaps the occasion of 100th test got to some players, especially ones who haven’t played the boks before.

You can say it is good that we won when playing poorly but the fact we knew what was coming and we didn’t counter it very well at all, shows that this side still has a way to go to be able to win 3 high pressure knockout games in 3 weeks if we want to regain the RWC.

I believe we will be better next week. The 100th match out of they way, we have experienced the boks and I am sure the debrief will be pretty brutal.

It will be a good test to see if we can learn, adapt and implement how we want to play next week.

Savea showed his inexperience at captaincy today and maybe his unsuitability as well. Turning down easy 3’s in a tight game where our lineout and attack isn’t working as well as it can, is criminal in my view.

Plus he is not asking enough of refs from what I saw. He may be a great leader during the week, which we don’t see but he wasn’t very good on the field today.

If I was George Bridge, I would that my union rep along to it to shield him from the fury that should be coming

Good to be renewing hostilities with the boks - i had forgotten how awful they are to play against at times!

@frugby

We were the better side in the 1st half and really should have been 15 points up based on the opportunities we missed.

that would have given a different outcome to the 2nd half.

I agree that missing 5 key players had a major effect on the team, especially with the late scrubbing of Cane and moving Vaai to No. 6.

In time, Vaai may become a great lock for us, but at the moment he is a lightweight lock who plays 10kgs lighter than he actually is and it was a real wtf moment to see him with a No. 6 in his back.

It shows the folly of the RWC squad balance that in the very first game we have failed the first stress test of our squad by picking an inexperienced lock to play out of position at No. 6, while not using a loose forward that you picked for the squad

I thought the AB’s could win this World Cup but they need to have all of their best players on the park. That seems pretty unrealistic to not expect injuries so it looks like we are in course for a qtr final exit unless we can keep everyone healthy.

Still a long way to go in this tournament (games and time) and quite often teams who look good in the early stages, lose form or fall away in later rounds.

Bottom line is, we need to improve.

@MN5

I can’t believe that with all of the times we have been tripped up by a less favoured side, we still have people saying we should test players for the final.

Have we learned nothing?

@Machpants

It’s not like he was his boss was it? He doesn’t work in the same office as him. Doesn’t see him at the blues on a daily basis or have contact with him on a daily basis. He is in charge of a team that you aren’t selected for, essentially saying. We don’t want you in this team.

It’s pretty narcissistic of Ryan to kill someone’s career and then make it all about him because he didn’t get a call back from the person he just killed, and make it public news.

Where’s the compassion for someone and realise that people are different and that he just may need some space before speaking with the person.

4 things to consider:

1. Ireland have never got past qtr final stage
2. only 2 teams have ever recorded 18 wins in a row in the history of rugby.
3. Ireland have never beaten NZ at a World Cup before
4. Their former coach is now an AB coach plotting against them.

1 of those things would be tough for the Irish to overcome but 4 of them?

Surely the rugby gods will not let them overcome all 4?

Quite simply Nz have nothing to lose and will be written off by pretty much everyone.

I get the sense that this AB outfit will be a desperate side on Saturday and will turn up with a performance to blitz Ireland as we did against SA.

As far as I can see (hope!) we took the RC seriously then entered a long S&C programme to get ourselves in the best shape possible for the qtr finals (look at tamati Williams as proof of this) so we can play the high octane rugby and gameplan that we have seen glimpses of this year.

We all know Ireland are a highly cohesive side and have well established patterns - if we play like Scotland, then we will be easily contained by their defensive aystem but I think we are a far more dynamic side and will test them more than they have been tested for some time.

There is no doubt that Schmidt will be working overtime to undo them with some changes to our attack and bring something they haven’t seen from us.

If not and we lose, then fuck off Foz and hello razor!

@Machpants

Car or train travel - 2 hours

2 hours flight is about 150 million people!!

Doesn’t matter about the % of the country population.

Twickers only needs to find 0.5% of close surrounding population ti fill it.

Eden park needs about 3%

Caketin about 8%

My maths could be slightly out. I’m no Good Will Hunting (but I do like apples)

@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:

Progress. We didn't go to shit until the 70th minute - despite the crap refereeing

Yeah, overall we played very well albeit making too many errors.

I thought we probably blew it when we fucked up 2 opportunities in their 22 around the 65 minute mark. That was the winning of the game if we took points then.

The ref was very harsh on us but it is not a surprise really when you play in a cauldron such as Ellis park.

Pissed off we disnt win as it was their for the taking but we have shown enough to suggest we are a decent side and can go toe to toe with this ‘generational’ Bok side (I always knew we would)

@Daffy-Jaffy said in All Blacks v France:

Quite an impressive young man. More comfortable in front of the cameras than SB!

Looks like a future captain.

@Catogrande

It wasn’t the forward pass, it was the rest of the game with a plethora of penalties he didn’t call.

That was the reason for one of the most bizarre officiating performances not seen before (ok, maybe some dodgy saffa refs at home) or since.

It looks as though Henry looked at every possible reason and came up with match fixing before dismissing it. Is that right?

Clearly for Henry to even contemplate that shows the magnitude of Barnes failure.

@Victor-Meldrew

I thought it was an impressive display. First up test match with a very disrupted build up and we have to beat a very good Irish side.

It was pleasing to see the pack step up and offer more physicality with a very good set piece but we still need to keep the intensity high consistently and not be too passive at the breakdown and collision areas. We are not affecting many turnovers which will really allow us to capitalise on broken play.

The AB pack won their battle tonight but I want to see them be able to do that consistently over 3 weeks (much like you have to do in RWC to win it). We haven’t been able to do that for a number of years now and we only do it when we have been embarrassed in the game before. We need to do it after a win and find that cos isn’t your in performance and intensity.

We also got over the gainline well and it makes it a lot easier to counter a rush defence when you do (who knew!?)

Dissapointing to lose the control and momentum of the match when we emptied the bench. Credit to Ireland for playing hard to to the last minute.

Promising start. Looking forward to playing under the roof in Dunedin.

Ireland will throw everything at us again as they know a loss will mean a series win for us. Looking forward to seeing the ABs build on this weeks performance.

Should be a cracking game.

Oh and happy birthday to Nana Cane!

I dont think it’s a great look for Robertson to be talking about picking overseas players when we haven’t even started a domestic season yet.

I know he was asked a question but ‘no comment’ would have been appropriate on this one.

You took the job based on the criteria of picking Nz based players only. Just do the job on that basis.

He will be asked this at every press conference going forward, especially if we lose some games.

I’m not sure the board are going to be thrilled with these headlines.

Apart from that, looking forward to seeing how his team shape up this year. Lot of rugby to be played before then though.