The Silver Fern

@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2026:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2026:

Speaking of placating the hordes, normally the ABs losing enrages the hordes. But it might be a sign of how far we've sunk that average fans seem accepting of it all

Looking at social media comments, I’m convinced most people either don’t notice the team’s lost or just don’t watch the games. The sycophantic nature of the comments and ignorance of the overall performance is crazy.

The ridiculous love for Ardie is unreal.

@Jet said in All Blacks 2026:

@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2026:

that's fucking hilarious. who voted for that? Facebook?

Fuck me dead.

I owe later day Sam Cane an apology too, because he was way more visible on the field than the current iteration of Ardie, who it seems, is way more visible off the field between matches.

Cane and McCaw put way more into that 7 shirt than what im seeing from our "Mana-facturer".

Yes agreed, i was against him playing last year but he proved me wrong and he brought an hard nosed AB attitude to his game and the team. I have heard that he was a leader that always asked the hard questions, challenged players made them accountable. We need some of that leadership now because we seem very un all black like in mental fortitude.

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2026:

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2026:

@No-Quarter i think how Ardie plays, he will unbalance most trios he is part of at international level.

Phenomenal athlete, huge ticker, has been an awesome player for us over the years, but for me, we need him to play a different game, or as many have said for several years, we need to have a 6 and 7 (or 8 depending where you start him) that compliment him, whether he is still good enough to dictate that we pick 2 loosies to suit his game, who knows.

Yeah, this is where I sit. He does amazing things. But, he very much does not do some things.
If you set him in stone (it doesn't matter which position), that sets the requirements for the other two loosies - and if we don't have 2 players who can between them do all of those tasks at a world class level, the group will never work.

Great harmonies too as seen on tiktok

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:

Extraordinary. Holland has gone from the AB coaching group back to the Canes as an asisstant coach. Man, think of the paycut!
https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/12/11/jason-holland-quickly-swaps-all-blacks-for-hurricanes/

(With no actual knowledge at all) I'm not even sure it's a pay cut, rather than just get rid of him NZR has just moved him inside the organisation. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on the same money.

aren't the Canes a bit bankrupt? Running ongoing deficits at the moment? I would be shocked if a Super assistant got anything like the same money as an AB coach.

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2026:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2026:

Extraordinary. Holland has gone from the AB coaching group back to the Canes as an asisstant coach. Man, think of the paycut!
https://www.1news.co.nz/2025/12/11/jason-holland-quickly-swaps-all-blacks-for-hurricanes/

(With no actual knowledge at all) I'm not even sure it's a pay cut, rather than just get rid of him NZR has just moved him inside the organisation. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on the same money.

aren't the Canes a bit bankrupt? Running ongoing deficits at the moment? I would be shocked if a Super assistant got anything like the same money as an AB coach.

Interesting that he has decided that wants to be an assit at the hurricanes rather than the All Blacks and yes, it would be a reduction in salary. Go back to the organisation that he was the head cosch at before he left.

So his career has gone backwards and he still thinks its a better gig than the ABs.

There might be personal reasons for Holland to leave, but looking at this from the outside it doesnt look very good at all

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@sparky said in Bokke vs Wales:

Apparently the All Blacks' self-styled spiritual leader provided a "character testimony" for Etzebeth.

So because they share an agent and pray together, one of them can commit assault against a third person with reduced consequences. Utter, utter bollocks.

Shameful.

Seriously? Why would that even come into consideration?

First BB helps out someone who smacks him in the head and now Savea doing this.

Stop fluffing the boks. Stop being the nice guys of a gladiatoral sport.

Stop acting like pussies and get angry that everyone now thinks we are pussies

Always been done Grubs. hell I have even given a character reference at a rugby judiciary hearing in Brisbane and at Levin only at club level of course. I recall Sam T (Nua ,you know him)doing exactly same for an Auckland player after Nua -Auckland shield match, well that wasn't a character one. more just bullshitted that what happened never really happened.
Like in normal court, I not sure it makes a difference, and I have supplied one there too, you not actually defending the actions, just how you find the person from your dealings with him.
It's not unusual, hell it has happened when Abs etc go up for too. Whether it actually makes a difference, I not sure.
I always used to laugh, Brad Thorn always publicly spoke up for Bakkies Botha, a lot of players did, reckoned that off field he was great joker etc, hell I even heard Phil Kearns among others say same about Richard Loe, who let's face it if we honest made Botha, Estebeth etc look angels!

Yeah, i know but why would Savea do it, why fucking bother?

Savea should be distancing himself from this henious act, not give a glowing reference.

Nice guys in rugby finish last. Or get whooped by record scores and know they will still be in the team the next week.

Im angry! No wonder we fall apart on the field when put under a bit of pressure

You ever stop to think Grubs, just maybe off the field they mates? What was in the glowing reference that has got you so upset? (I admit I haven't faintest idea what was written).If you genuinely believe we fall apart because they mates off field, you must of hated the likes of Jerry Collins, Tana Umaga, Brad Thorn, Buck Shelford etc who were real proud to be mates with opposition off field. I just don't get the Ardie hate, although I note it's trendy on here last few months.

Mate. I very rarely stop to think!

I just dont see why a senior All Black provides a character reference to a senior springbok.

In isolation it may seem an over the top reaction but it seems the AB culture is too nice these days and not ruthless enough (i know it isn't conclusive proof but its just a feeling and may come across as irrational).

We look to be very un-All Black like on the field and wilt under pressure badly at times. And we appear very un all black like off the field. I know times change and there is a much larger PI influence in the squad (and that brings a different element - not a criticism at all, just an observation) to but it just feels we have lost that connection to the AB legacy, culture and an absolute ruthless approach to becoming the best side again.

Last time Savea played the boks he was part of a record AB loss. Now he is rushing to their aid to help them.

Fuck them. Dont give them anything. Whats bad for them is good for us. It should burn inside that we lost to them like we did in Wellington and Savea should be setting that tone as a senior AB and probable captain next year.

I know i am old school but when we tour there next year, the boks will see this as a chance to humiliate the All Blacks. And they will be laser focussed on doing just that. We have lost that attitude.

Ramblings over.

There in perhaps lies the difference mate. When we play the Boks (or any team) I want them to have every player they can available. I want us to beat the best, not what's left over. I want no excuses when we win or lose.
I old fashioned like that, have never found it as enjoyable when we beat teams shorn of players through injury or suspension etc. Also old school enough to love the fact that after the game has finshed players are great mates. And I don't judge how hard we are as players off the field, only on it.
See stories like Umaga and George Gregan deciding they were going to play rugby together at a club while having a beer in a pub after a test there. And as I said Jerry Collins was real stoked to be mates with many he played against, always said he often caught up with opposition player in super at airports as they crossed paths, and they always had beer s etc.
Mind you I never agree with them mixing with opposition before a game under any circumstances (that is at any level), but after and off the field I really like they are mates.

And to top it off, as I said, I would of been happy if he got a year or so, but think 12 weeks is probably fair anyway. Shit act, but no injury, and it still twice as long as that prick Swain got for putting out Quinn Tupaea for best part of a year! Remember Hore smacking Bradley Davies from behind laying him out and putting him in hospital?
He got a few weeks, Welsh coach (Gatland) was in press saying he thought it was accidental.

You’re are missing the point. I dont think Etzebeth was in danger of being banned for AB matches and the ban was what i was expecting.

Its about a deeper maliase that is coming into the ABs.

Nice guys off the field. Now seemingly nice to play against on the field.

You talk about the late great jerry Collins.

After losing a test match, i beat he would be have been horrible to train against and with. Just cant see that with Ardie

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@sparky said in Bokke vs Wales:

Apparently the All Blacks' self-styled spiritual leader provided a "character testimony" for Etzebeth.

So because they share an agent and pray together, one of them can commit assault against a third person with reduced consequences. Utter, utter bollocks.

Shameful.

Seriously? Why would that even come into consideration?

First BB helps out someone who smacks him in the head and now Savea doing this.

Stop fluffing the boks. Stop being the nice guys of a gladiatoral sport.

Stop acting like pussies and get angry that everyone now thinks we are pussies

Always been done Grubs. hell I have even given a character reference at a rugby judiciary hearing in Brisbane and at Levin only at club level of course. I recall Sam T (Nua ,you know him)doing exactly same for an Auckland player after Nua -Auckland shield match, well that wasn't a character one. more just bullshitted that what happened never really happened.
Like in normal court, I not sure it makes a difference, and I have supplied one there too, you not actually defending the actions, just how you find the person from your dealings with him.
It's not unusual, hell it has happened when Abs etc go up for too. Whether it actually makes a difference, I not sure.
I always used to laugh, Brad Thorn always publicly spoke up for Bakkies Botha, a lot of players did, reckoned that off field he was great joker etc, hell I even heard Phil Kearns among others say same about Richard Loe, who let's face it if we honest made Botha, Estebeth etc look angels!

Yeah, i know but why would Savea do it, why fucking bother?

Savea should be distancing himself from this henious act, not give a glowing reference.

Nice guys in rugby finish last. Or get whooped by record scores and know they will still be in the team the next week.

Im angry! No wonder we fall apart on the field when put under a bit of pressure

You ever stop to think Grubs, just maybe off the field they mates? What was in the glowing reference that has got you so upset? (I admit I haven't faintest idea what was written).If you genuinely believe we fall apart because they mates off field, you must of hated the likes of Jerry Collins, Tana Umaga, Brad Thorn, Buck Shelford etc who were real proud to be mates with opposition off field. I just don't get the Ardie hate, although I note it's trendy on here last few months.

Mate. I very rarely stop to think!

I just dont see why a senior All Black provides a character reference to a senior springbok.

In isolation it may seem an over the top reaction but it seems the AB culture is too nice these days and not ruthless enough (i know it isn't conclusive proof but its just a feeling and may come across as irrational).

We look to be very un-All Black like on the field and wilt under pressure badly at times. And we appear very un all black like off the field. I know times change and there is a much larger PI influence in the squad (and that brings a different element - not a criticism at all, just an observation) to but it just feels we have lost that connection to the AB legacy, culture and an absolute ruthless approach to becoming the best side again.

Last time Savea played the boks he was part of a record AB loss. Now he is rushing to their aid to help them.

Fuck them. Dont give them anything. Whats bad for them is good for us. It should burn inside that we lost to them like we did in Wellington and Savea should be setting that tone as a senior AB and probable captain next year.

I know i am old school but when we tour there next year, the boks will see this as a chance to humiliate the All Blacks. And they will be laser focussed on doing just that. We have lost that attitude.

Ramblings over.

@OomPB said in Bokke vs Wales:

Eben will be back for the All Blacks.

I’ll keep an eye out for him

@Dan54 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@DaGrubster said in Bokke vs Wales:

@sparky said in Bokke vs Wales:

Apparently the All Blacks' self-styled spiritual leader provided a "character testimony" for Etzebeth.

So because they share an agent and pray together, one of them can commit assault against a third person with reduced consequences. Utter, utter bollocks.

Shameful.

Seriously? Why would that even come into consideration?

First BB helps out someone who smacks him in the head and now Savea doing this.

Stop fluffing the boks. Stop being the nice guys of a gladiatoral sport.

Stop acting like pussies and get angry that everyone now thinks we are pussies

Always been done Grubs. hell I have even given a character reference at a rugby judiciary hearing in Brisbane and at Levin only at club level of course. I recall Sam T (Nua ,you know him)doing exactly same for an Auckland player after Nua -Auckland shield match, well that wasn't a character one. more just bullshitted that what happened never really happened.
Like in normal court, I not sure it makes a difference, and I have supplied one there too, you not actually defending the actions, just how you find the person from your dealings with him.
It's not unusual, hell it has happened when Abs etc go up for too. Whether it actually makes a difference, I not sure.
I always used to laugh, Brad Thorn always publicly spoke up for Bakkies Botha, a lot of players did, reckoned that off field he was great joker etc, hell I even heard Phil Kearns among others say same about Richard Loe, who let's face it if we honest made Botha, Estebeth etc look angels!

Yeah, i know but why would Savea do it, why fucking bother?

Savea should be distancing himself from this henious act, not give a glowing reference.

Nice guys in rugby finish last. Or get whooped by record scores and know they will still be in the team the next week.

Im angry! No wonder we fall apart on the field when put under a bit of pressure

@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@Duluth said in Bokke vs Wales:

world.rugby/organisation/governance/regulations/reg-17/appendix-1

Intentional Contact with Eye(s) (7)

Low-end:
12 weeks/matches

Mid-range:
18 weeks/matches

Top-end:
24+ weeks/matches

Max:
208 weeks/matches

---

So where does this fit? Mid range?

I would inclined to go low end. The other player was not injured and watching the video he (Etsebeth) appears to move his thumb away after he realizes it’s in his eye.

Keep digging. Every time you try to defend innocent Eben it make you look sillier and sillier

@mariner4life said in Bokke vs Wales:

The All Blacks are a bunch of fucking cats.

But even above that, why the fuck does a character reference from someone who wasn't even playing come in to it.

A good character can do a henious thing.

Should be totally irrelevant to the 5 seconds of violence

@sparky said in Bokke vs Wales:

Apparently the All Blacks' self-styled spiritual leader provided a "character testimony" for Etzebeth.

So because they share an agent and pray together, one of them can commit assault against a third person with reduced consequences. Utter, utter bollocks.

Shameful.

Seriously? Why would that even come into consideration?

First BB helps out someone who smacks him in the head and now Savea doing this.

Stop fluffing the boks. Stop being the nice guys of a gladiatoral sport.

Stop acting like pussies and get angry that everyone now thinks we are pussies

@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:

@W32 said in Bokke vs Wales:

@reprobate said in Bokke vs Wales:

Ah, South Africans on the panel are there? Poor old Eben.

Actually, I don't believe so.

Well that's good if so. Intent is a very hard thing to prove or disprove in this situation I would have thought - but really my opinion is as simple as: if you make the decision to attack someone's face, well, that's where their fucking eyes are - and that makes it deliberate.

Not sure if that would make for a fair process though. Accidental contact with the eyes is different than deliberate obviously. This could be a career defining issue for him not to mention the money he will likely lose. I find it hard to believe that he went after his eyes.

Well he pushed his thumb hard into his eye socket while looking straight at the players face.

I find it hard to believe he had any other intention other than going for his eyes.

Do we know how long is thumb was in his eye for?

@canefan said in New All Black Coach:

@African-Monkey said in New All Black Coach:

@game_film said in New All Black Coach:

Be interesting to see how Razor would go coaching the ABs when the Scott Hansen era ends.

Yeah will be interesting because he does come across as a guy who likes having his own men that he trusts by his side as opposed to having guys chosen for him. He seems like a man that wants full control.

If he wants full control, then why does he let Hansen essentially coach the team?

If Scott Hansen applied for the role in 2024 would he have even been seriously considered for an interview?

This stinks.

@sparky said in All Blacks 2026:

@booboo Two of those losses in 1949 were on the same day if I remember correctly.

Jesus Sparky, how old are you!?

@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/david-kirks-nuclear-option-nzrs-deficit-between-promise-and-performance-the-high-performance-conundrum-chasing-the-boks-inside-rugby/premium/LVBD3PXCFZERHJRMWFOTCRIQFI/

The Herald has spoken to several high-profile Kiwi coaches based overseas, who say that while they love their country and want teams in black to win on the world stage, they have no interest in coming home because they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels, and they don’t trust NZR to consistently make good decisions around coaching and management appointments.

Some coaches have said they fear NZR has become dismissive of what it could learn and borrow from other countries and that it has shut itself off entirely from the rest of the world, which is partly why they say the All Blacks’ defensive and attacking patterns are outdated and ineffective.

Thats a grim, deflating read.

We are in trouble folks.

Big trouble. We have Scott Hansen coaching the side with Razor doing the pilates side of things and have to tour the republic for 4 fucken tests next year!

One thing that really annoyed me about the 3 part Razor wankfest run by Jim Kayes was when he was extremely dismissive about getting experience overseas and said something along the lines of 'Why do i need overseas experience? I spent time over there as a player!' He lost me right there. Did he think he'd walk into international rugby thinking the opposition was the same level as the Waratahs and Force or something?

I really think we make too much of saying you need international experience.

Sure test rugby is different but its still rugby. The laws are the same, the quality increases but who shouldnt be shocked at test rugby is different than super rugby

Funnily enough Grubs, one Sam Whitelock said he thought the assistant coaches weren't experienced enough at test level rugby in his book. I also remember Ryan saying when the Crusaders had a really tough game coming up and he made comment it will be test match intensity, Whitelock told him he was talking bullshit, no comparison he said. Not sure if Sam had enough experience to know?
Probably not

@nostrildamus

Fab Holland?

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

I really think we make too much of saying you need international experience.

The current AB head Coach says "Hold my beer"

"Until you have played or coached a test match, you don't know [what is required] until you have done it and so those guys are really valuable," Robertson said."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360896037/turned-corner-scott-robertson-assessment-all-blacks-year-and-skipper-scott-barrett

I think Razors issues and faults are not because he didnt coach Scotland for 20 tests before he became AB coach..

But i get your point!

@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

So what were the positives of 2025?

I posted this a bit early in the thread:

"Holland's taken to Test Rugby like a duck to the wet stuff.
Jordie Barrett came back from Europe with an extra edge to his game.
Cam Roigard is world class.
Our Hookers are excellent.
DMac did well when he had game time. So did Caleb Clarke between injuries. So did Patrick Tuipolutu.
We have the Bledisloe. (Still).
Eden Park is a Fortress. (Still).
Wallace Sititi after being shaky for much of the year finished well.
In ranking terms, we are 2 in the world even if I think the Springboks, England and France are all comfortably better than us."

All good Sparky.

We started the year with lots of injuries and disruption to our squad and i dont think we ever really got ahead of that and had a settled squad where we were able to build as a team and get some momentum and confidence.

I wouldnt say England are better (i was at Twickenham today and they were decent but nothing really special) but until we get over these mental frailties and start winning must win games its hard to now say we are better than other top sides.

So what were the positives of 2025?

Who were the players to emerge who look to be long term all Blacks and will play a key part in 2027?

Ita fair to say the aBs stagnated this year and went backwards in a number of areas.

Razor and Ryan will survive but every other coach should be cut loose.

NZR should be committed to getting the best assistant coaches possible and it doest matter what their nationality is.

Defence coach being the biggest priority for me - nz defence systems are lagging behind the rest of the top sides and we need outside help. It cant be too hard to find better quality defensive coaches.

Lots to do to get us back on track

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:

@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

@Tim said in All Blacks 2025:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/david-kirks-nuclear-option-nzrs-deficit-between-promise-and-performance-the-high-performance-conundrum-chasing-the-boks-inside-rugby/premium/LVBD3PXCFZERHJRMWFOTCRIQFI/

The Herald has spoken to several high-profile Kiwi coaches based overseas, who say that while they love their country and want teams in black to win on the world stage, they have no interest in coming home because they don’t believe the high-performance system is operating at best-practice levels, and they don’t trust NZR to consistently make good decisions around coaching and management appointments.

Some coaches have said they fear NZR has become dismissive of what it could learn and borrow from other countries and that it has shut itself off entirely from the rest of the world, which is partly why they say the All Blacks’ defensive and attacking patterns are outdated and ineffective.

Thats a grim, deflating read.

We are in trouble folks.

Big trouble. We have Scott Hansen coaching the side with Razor doing the pilates side of things and have to tour the republic for 4 fucken tests next year!

One thing that really annoyed me about the 3 part Razor wankfest run by Jim Kayes was when he was extremely dismissive about getting experience overseas and said something along the lines of 'Why do i need overseas experience? I spent time over there as a player!' He lost me right there. Did he think he'd walk into international rugby thinking the opposition was the same level as the Waratahs and Force or something?

I really think we make too much of saying you need international experience.

Sure test rugby is different but its still rugby. The laws are the same, the quality increases but who shouldnt be shocked at test rugby is different than super rugby