The Silver Fern

If you have about 15 hours a week spare "ear-time" over the next 2 weeks, and you might be interested in a different point of view, below are 15 podcasts from the "British and Irish Isles" for you.

The links are all to podcast site Player.Fm, so you can choose to either just browse to play/download the ones that appeal, or opt to subscribe.
(Most are also available through iTunes, Podbean.com or direct from the various sites - so use whatever suits you best.)

If you can reply with suggestions for NZ ones that would be great.
(Or from elsewhere with a Lions interest.)
I've already found the SportRadio online live-feed, NZ Herald's Out of the Box the Tony Veitch paper-shufflingly The Roar and Kirwan on Facebook's Feed the Backs

I'm an Ireland fan, so that's where I will start:
Podcasts from an Irish perspective
The 42 Rugby Show
Usually 2-3 a week during the tour. Main person is Murray Kinsella. a tactics-savvy journalist.

NewsTalk - Off the Ball
2-3 times a week: usually an Irish journalist and an ex-international (usually Keith Wood or BOD).

Joe.ie - Hard Yards
A mix of opinions, analysis and a few tall tales,
Usually about 1 a week but might be more during the tour. Usually with a couple of ex-players (often ROG). A mix of opinions, analysis and a more than a few tall tales,

Pundit Arena - Oval Office
2-3 times a week: 2 online journalists talking plus sometimes an interview.

Irishman Abroad
Not a rugby podcast, but a range of long interviews, about 10-15 of which are of Irish rugby players (usually recently retired). Not the usual mundane soundbites - the interviewee gets time to talk. (Also Irish actors, comedians etc.)

Podcasts from an English perspective
Egg Chasers
3 guys talking about rugby. Opinionated, fun but not ignorant. 2 English guys and 1 Welsh.

Blood and Mud
2 guys talking about rugby. 2 English guys - the sort of rugby-conversation you have over several beers: sweary, funny, biased, but also well-observed, though sometimes endearingly daft.

Rugby Pod
2 recent retirees: Jim Hamilton (Scotland lock), Andy Goode (flyhalf for Leics & many others - think England's Steve Donald apart from winning a RWC). Lots of opinion, not a lot of objectivity and some very tall tales.

Brian Moore - Full Contact
Sundays: The former England/Lions hooker - always forthright, but as an ex-lawyer he likes a well-argued discussion. Different ex-players each week.

TalkSport - Rugby Special: Lion's Den
1 hour every day. Standard broadcaster interviews from a UK Radio station. Also include pieces from Ireland's Michael Corcoran and various NZ pundits.

BBC Rugby
2-3 a week during the tour. Standard broadcaster interviews from a UK Radio station.
Plus some in-depth specials such as:
"2005: How not to win a series",
"Making of the 1997 film 'Living with the Lions' " etc.

Podcasts from a Scottish perspective
Scottish Rugby
About 1 a week - 3 fans who not surprisingly, more of a focus on the Scotland team, but a bit of Lions chat.

The Thistle
About every 2 weeks - also 3 other fans who likewise have more of a focus on the Scotland team, but also a bit of Lions chat

Podcasts from a Welsh perspective
Attacking Scrum
Usually 2-3 times a week during the tour. Describes itself in duplicate as "Wales Rugby Podcast for Welsh Rugby fans" - just in case you weren't clear the first time.

Wales Online - Rugby podcast
About 1 a week. Journalists and ex-players.

There are various YouTube bloggers/vloggers but as you might expect from a Lions fan,
I've stuck to dull-routine mp3 (catch a download just like catching box-kicks out of an Auckland night-sky)
rather than the more visual video versions (even if it is usually just 2 blokes talking, sometimes with one shuffling paper)

Listen and either enjoy or be outraged, but hear a different point of view.

Cheers
Megweya

@rotated said in B&I Lions 2017:

The begging for 3 extra tourists and selection of many multi-position guys in the backs makes me think Gats is hedging his bets as late as possible.

(Sorry for the late addition, I'm a BIL-fan who has only just joined.)

Recent tours have typically had 6-8 players called up to cover injuries.
Paraphrasing the old Lions '74 battle cry of Willie John McBride "Get your retaliation in first", Gatland is getting some of his injury-replacements in first - hence the extra 3-4 players and the many multi-position players (lock/6, centre/wing/FB).
Thus avoiding the need to explain the extensive repetoire of 'Warrenball' crash-ball variations to newcomers.

I'd be very surprised if Gatland hasn't got 12 of his 1st Test line-up inked-in. His track-record over 20 years is not that of someone who makes a late change in plans. His 'extras' are to minimise disruption by injury, not to give him permutations to experiment with.

Although in 2005 Ryan Jones went from injury-callup to No 8 in all 3 Tests, it is a tall order for a late-arrival to get over jet-lag and catch up on the calls/moves (unless Welsh ) to be worth even considering for the bench for a mid-week game.

The best that most late call-ups can hope for is some nice kit plus the belated satisfaction that in a small way offsets their April disappointment at the initial squad selection.
And the privilege of becoming a key member of the tackle-bag team.

@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:

you lose your 15 and your 13 at the same time it's massive, as they are two of your biggest organisers. Add in it also results in a change at 10

If it had happened to the Lions, all us Lions fans would be pointing to it for a reason for not winning.
The first 10 minutes / second 10 minutes seemed to sum up the game.
First 10 minutes:
Lions get a chance for a winger to score in first couple of minutes but don't.
Lions have a lot of possession/territory but no points.

Second 10 minutes:
Great NZ phases/pressure; NZ get a 5m penalty, but don't go for 3, don't kick for corner, don't scrum it - instead Barrett calls for a quick tap and ball gets to Taylor who picks the ball off his toes.
Most NH 10s would not would gamble a 5m pen to create the chance.
Most NH hookers would be happy just not to knock-on - let alone score.

Furthermore, the somewhat delusional NH perspective is that a very good Lions try is celebrated up here as an achievement in itself, but the SH reality is to focus on bossing the game and taking control of the series.

Well done to the ABs

Megweya

PS: As an Irish fan I feel the need to go to YouTube to watch the Chicago video, because I can't see similar success coming on the next 2 Saturdays.

@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

This is a very special side. I can't think of another international side who could have competed against this BIL side with a man down for so long. And almost win it.

It was an immense bloody-minded effort, but the 2nd-half first-20 minute penalty-deluge was what let NZ stay in the game - a coherent national side like England or Ireland would not have allowed that to happen.

.. sending off. In real time I thought it was a yellow. On reflection red was the correct call.

Real-time, the main side-view camera meant it was hard to see.
All other angles made it so clear that it is hard to believe a few people query it.

Doing something so dumb is normally only seen from an over-eager novice
or someone on 70 minutes whose brain is oxygen-starved after 5 minutes of non-stop play.

SBW deserves the full criticism for this specific action.
It seems like some people are using it to unload a back-log of criticism.

Wellington police need to be informed that Itoje has appropriated McCaw's Cloak of Invisibility.

Itoje: educated at Harrow - maybe in some of the dark arts of Hogwarts-McCawesome-ball-expelliarmus?

But hopefully Gatland realises that he got out of jail with this result.

Too true.

@jegga

Geech just got faint from a bug according to his daughter.

Maybe the thought of having been a 71kg centre back in the day and seeing
SBW 108kg and Laumape 103kg warming up at 50% more beef than him in his prime made him go weak at the knees.

@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

McBride

I thought I had heard all the trivia about Willie John McBride until yesterday:
he played more games for the Lions (70) than for Ireland (63)!

There were a lot of provincial games on those long tours in the 60s/70s!

@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

I still think Warren G is a massive dick and hope he loses.

Is there the option for the Lions to win but Gatland to lose?
Maybe a French-style RWC2011 revolt when they ignored the lunatic Livremont?

There are many things this tour that Gatland has done this tour that have annoyed me - his digs in the press conferences, not trying the Sexton-Farell partnership earlier in the tour, his drafting in of the "plastic Lions", in the last midweek game making 7 of the pack play 80 minutes to the point of exhaustion and demoralise them about not then having no hope of getting into the test team.

That said, he has seemed to create a good atmosphere among the players and has supported the early trips to schools etc. On a rugby front he has been willing to abandon his preferred approach of bulky-12 smashing the ball up for a 1m gain and somehow the team have become at times quite fluid.

If I had the choice I'd have Hansen as a coach - he has been more respectful of the opposition and the officials, he has set the tone for a good culture within the team and good results/style on the pitch. He has a good mix of analysis, pragmatism, proportion, humility and humour in what he says in the press conferences.

I hope that when/if the ABs lose on Saturday, Hansen is not the scapegoat.
The ABs have had significant disruption in both tests - it is normally the touring team who are running out of first-line players by the third test. Maybe the good fortune of the Lions with injuries has had more of an impact than has been suggested so far?

@Tim

Hi Tim

As you've added a blog-link, I've thought I'd add a (cross-post) link to a set of links to 15 NH podcasts that I''ve added in another topic.

For us in the NH, it is still 2 more sleeps to the once-in-12-years-Christmas!

Cheers
Megweya

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:

Interesting stat

The only stats that matter:

NZ 1
Lions 1
Drawn 1

Forget Poite-gate - the ABs didn't take the game away from the Lions in the first 20 when they were on top.

@Nepia said in B&I Lions 2017:

did a good job of disguising himself early on and then completely blew it by admitting his support of Ireland.

Ah, the disguise of waiting for the second line before citing in my second line the
"battle cry of Willie John McBride"

As subtle as a Jamie Roberts forward-step ...
(he has not yet learnt the side-step)

To me, the WJ quote suggests I'm either a Lions historian or biased.

For the avoidance of doubt - like all rugby fans, I'm biased - but I try to be impartial before or after being biased.
Sometimes it makes a difference, sometimes it doesn't.

Cheers
Megweya

PS
WJMcB 1.92m 102 kg
JamieR 1.93m 110 kg

Pound for pound (kilo for kilo) I know who was the better Lion.

@pakman said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

Itoje was part of an eight man pack which did not subdue the AB seven. He was pinged offside at least twice and could or should have been more, penalties which threatened to sink Lions. Pulled off a good maul sack and made a couple of big tackles but the collective result suggests the less showy aspects were nothing special. I simply wouldn't have swapped either of the two AB locks for him.

Yep, I agree with you.
The balance of pro's/cons is key.
If the pro's are make a big tackle and a big break that are eye-catching but make no contribution to the scoreboard (or at least the momentum of a match)
but the cons are 2 dumb penalties that concede 6 points or make an attack break down, then I'd settle for a non-flashy player who does the grunt work (like Whitelock).
Rugby is a team game - all the bits and pieces working together is what wins games and tournaments.

Itoje will presumably learn not to concede so often.
Sean O'Brien used to infuriate me by the way he could not resist some dumb challenges at the tackle. However, he has improved over the years to be one of the few players in the squad that many Kiwis seemed to rate before the Lions arrived.

@Catogrande

I vaguely remember a quote from a few months back from a Kiwi about Sean O'Brien:
"Sean O'Brien? Even if he was dead you would have him on the bench, just in case in came back to life and you could put him on for 10 minutes!"

I can't find who said it, but I love the sentiment (even if as an Irish fan I think it applies more to the Seanie of 2010-2012 when he was a overwhelming force of nature for Leinster and Ireland).

The definition of cleaning up shit-ball going backwards: clear out 3 players at the ruck (even the exemplary Dusatoir recognised when it was time to take a step back and fight another battle).
0:13 - 0:15 and replayed 0:22 - 0:26

@Nepia
Drop goals have been going out of fashion in NH.
2 in 2017 in 15 matches
1 in 2016
Not like back in the day in the 80s when Rob Andrew got 9, as did Lescaboura, and Chalmers got 8 for Scotland and Jonathan Davies (no relation) got 8 for Wales.

Nor when each of these got 5 in a season: Dominguez (2000) Jenkins (2001) Wilkinson (2003).

As Dylan sang "The times they are a-changin'"
(even if the wider perception of NH rugby might not be!)

Still a good option against a resolute defence but a last resort, not an upfront tactic (unless you are De Beer v Eng in RWC '99 QF)

@jegga said in B&I Lions 2017:

after you get settled in ask me about the time I had breakfast with Jerome Kaino, Damien Mackenzie, Joe Moody and Liam Squire.

Thanks
After you tell me, I'll tell you about being at the 99 & 07 RWC QFs NZ v Fr

@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

Peter Stringer who I thought was a cnut!

... with a superb pass and an amazing knack of tap-tackling.

This one

Going a bit deeper, he had a challenging time as a youngster with discussions about having growth hormone to make him bigger - long interview (1 hour)

On a lighter note, Ireland lock Mick Galway says when he was recalled to the side in 2000 (despite some selectors thinking he was too small for a lock) he stood between youngsters O'Gara and Stringer to make himself look bigger to the committee men in the stand!

But then, anyone looked big compared to Stringer -

@gollum said in B&I Lions 2017:

12 & 13 are hugely different defensive positions in union. Does anyone play left & right? It seems like the sort of thing the Aussies might have tried at some stage

A left/right setup elsewhere in the team has often been favoured by the French with a pair of left/right flankers instead of open-/blindside.

But they also do that very French thing of having guys who play 9/10 (other than a few exceptions like Ruan Pienaar and the numerically-fluid Giteau).

Sometimes multi-position players are the definition of Jack-of-all-trades (for England: Austin Healey: 9/10/wing/fullback - though good enough to be twice a Lion)
and others are masters of more than one (for Ireland: Mike Gibson, 10/12/13, and occasional 14, and 5 Lions Tours).

@jegga said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

Christ Gatland, you just coached a team to a win over the abs and you have to go and make it all about you.

Warren-bawl?

Or maybe a "sook"?

Gatland is like Mourinho and Woodward - in his head, there is always some part of what is going on that is about him.

This sort of grandstanding never happened with Geech in '89, '93. '97 or '09 (or the mid-week part of '05).

At RWC 2019 it will happen with Eddie J but not with Joe Schmidt.
Different folks, different strokes.
Give me Geech and Joe any day.

PS Please don't take Joe in 2019 - we want him for the RWC in Ireland 2023!

@jegga said in B&I Lions 2017:

@Pot-Hale how is Gatland though of in Ireland after coaching there?

Hard to beat this site for analysis of Irish rugby and retro-articles.

Will Slattery  /  Mar 9, 2015

The Gatland seasons: How Ireland fared during the four years when Warren was king

The Wales coach led Ireland between 1998-2001.

Gatland has some pluses (capping young players with potential)
some minuses (RWC 1999 defeat to Argentina, speculation that he was ousted by his backs-coach Eddie O'Sullivan, later years Mourinho-style grandstanding)
sometimes both together (radical pick of 4 first-caps for Scotland game in 2000: Stringer, Hayes, Horgan, O'Gara -
who went on to get a huge number of caps:
Stringer 98 caps; Hayes 105 caps; Horgan 65 caps; O'Gara 128 caps: not bad for a Yank)

He seems limited in several ways: style of rugby, antagonistic with the press/opposition
but he has won lots of trophies - another example of being like Mourinho?

• getting the English club team Wasps
  • from the lower parts of the English league to winning it in 2003 + 2004 +2005
  • winning the European Cup in 2004
• with Wales
  • Grand Slams in 2008 + 2012
  • 6 Nation winners in 2013
• with Lions: series win in Australia (debate scale of achievement and selection issues elsewhere)

@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:

Faletau's try was top drawer.

Having seen a step-by-step review of it today, I think it was a far, far better try than the try in the first test by O'Brien.

The first Test try needed a bit of luck/opportunism - Read's charge was maybe worth a gamble because it might have made a fullback panic, but Williams stepped inside and there was a nice arrangement of players on both sides for the Lions to capitalise through the neat exchanges between Davies/Daly/Davies/O'Brien.
Four players contribute to the attack. The distance makes it unexpected/dramatic/spectacular - but overall it made no difference.

However, the Faletau try was more like a Joe Schmidt-planned try. It starts with the scrum-half in the lineout at the front and O'Brien at 9, then Murray drops back to take the tap, O'Brien keeps the focus close-in from the AB-tail, but Murray skip-passes to Sexton who gives a short pass to Farrell.
Farrell and Davies tie in the AB midfield, Sexton loops and Daly comes in from the blindside-wing, just evading ALB and feeds Williams who puts Watson away on the right.
Watson is tackled but Murray rolls Dagg and O'Brien has the strength to resist the combined counter-ruck of Cane and Barrett.
Daly acts as 9 to get the ball out to Sexton and Itoje trucks it up, supported by George. Murray feeds Sexton who has inside options from Furlong and Lawes with Davies running a hard line from centre, but Sexton pulls it back deep to Farrell who has had time to size up the ABs improvised defence.
Farrell wisely skips Warburton to get the ball to Williams in midfield and passes to Faletau who is 5m in from touch. Faletau is not in the clear and has to use his power/experience to get through the Dagg tackle. I've seen several Lions backs not score from better chances this tour.
That's what I call a team try!

That's all 7 backs involved and (depending on how you do the maths) the ball going through about 16 pairs of hands &/or significant contributions leading up to that try, going 40m up the pitch but 2 x 70m widths, so it is a total of about 180m of play.

Also it happened when it was 14v14, so was not simply down to numerical difference (although the effort of the AB-14 from minutes 25-60 might have been starting to catch up on them).

Above all - it made a difference: it got the Lions back in the game after 20 minutes of trying to throw away the series by giving away dumb penalty after dumb penalty.

So far, by far, that for me is the try of the tour (and several other tours!).

@KiwiMurph

Mentions of McCaw reminded me of recently seeing this old video clip of Richie scoring in 1998 Schools final between Rotorua & Otago
Skip to 3:25 for a 50m multiple-offloading side-stepping try 5m lineout drive