@bones said in England vs All Blacks:
@simonadd_2 we're playing a loosehead who pretty much only took up rugby a year ago.
Wow, he must be really good to establish himself as the second-best loosehead in New Zealand in such a short time. Will look out for him.
@booboo said in England vs All Blacks:
Of the apparently 16 players missing for Ingalund is it possible to get a list and rank them in terms of their position?
As an example NZ is missing the number one and number three ranked LHPs (Moody, Hames).
Even just a list so we can start trying to work out how badly affected the Poms actually are.
Thanks in anticipation.
Off the top of my head:
Loosehead: M Vunipola, Marler (retired), Mullen, Genge, Obano
Lock: Launchbury, Lawes has recovered to make the bench
Flankers: Robshaw, Curry
Number 8: B Vunipola, Hughes, Simmonds, Clifford, Morgan
Scrum-half: Robson
Centres: Joseph, Tuilagi (unsure if he's still injured or just unselected), Lozowski (banned)
Back 3: Watson
Of those, I'd say Vunipola, Launchbury, Robshaw, Curry and Watson would have been likely starters, and Joseph/Lozowski would have been pushing Slade hard.
But the bigger problem than missing starters (which we're used to) is how far down the depth chart we're having to go at loosehead and 8. Moon is a journeyman prop who used to play in the Championship (one league below the premiership) and Wilson is a jack-of-all-trades 6 being played out of position at the base of the scrum.
@billy-webb Unfortunately I pretty much agree with all of that. South Africa lost the game more than England won it, and the Farrell tackle was a clear penalty.
I'll take the win but England were extremely lucky. I can't see past an All Black pasting this week though.
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Jonathan Davies deservedly named Man of the Series for the Lions.
And after the dust has settled and thoughts turn to pre-season training and Autumn Internationals, were the omitted and injured missed?
It was unfortunate that Hogg was injured out of the series, but to be fair he wasn't playing well prior to his departure. Would Brown have offered anything better than Williams? I don't think so.
Would the Gray brothers and Launchbury have made the Test side? Maybe Launchbury.
When the Lions went away from 'Warrenball' to 'Eddieball' I think we would have been better served having the original - Ford - not the imitation - Sexton.
And what we really missed was an out and out speedster like Christian Wade or Johnnie May who could have finished some of the chances we created.
But overall the squad selection seems to have been close to spot on.
I've never been a fan, but Davies was truly excellent all tour and well deserving of the reward - what a turnaround from the Six Nations. Warburton and AWJ both also more than justified their selection. Ahead of the tour I thought Gatland's selection of his favourites regardless of form would come back to bite him, but he made a great job of differentiating those who could raise their game from those who weren't ready for the challenge (Halfpenny, North).
Launchbury was hugely unlucky, but all of the Lions locks on tour played extremely well and with hindsight it's difficult to say any of them shouldn't have been there.
The most interesting non-tourist would have been Billy Vunipola. Faletau was one of the best players on tour - could Billy have pushed him to the bench? Or, like CJ Stander, would he have found he was getting less change than usual from his carries and not have a plan B? I think he's a better carrier than Stander with better footwork in traffic, and his game would translate better against Kiwi defences, but I guess we'll have to wait until 2018 to see.
I think Youngs would have been a huge upgrade on Laidlaw for the midweek side, but probably wouldn't have troubled the selectors for the Tests.
@MiketheSnow much like Savea, he's been clutching all night
Nice to see HIAs are still a joke. Alun Wyn Jones was spark out from the Kaino challenge, yet allowed to return to the field.
All Black throw a mile not straight.
Great first scrum from Sinckler.
@rotated everyone on here seemed to think a red card should have been considered for O'brien and Vunipola last week. No consistency in you kiwis.
YC the right decision. Clear difference between that and SBW's last week.
Prickish behaviour from Read. Glad the ref caught that.
@Stargazer that is interesting. So Naholo passed the HIA!
@taniwharugby you mean the second penalty against the tackler? I can't remember the first.
I've always hated it. Up there with diving over the top of a ruck to score a try for me. Leaves the defenders no legal recourse and just feels like a loophole in the laws that defies the spirit of the game.
Have to say I hate the 'jump to take a pass/into a tackle' and agree the final penalty was bollocks. What is a tackler meant to do, step aside and let him through the line? It's entirely different to jumping to take a high ball.
I always thought from my playing days that jumping into a tackle was illegal, but I don't think I've ever seen it penalised in the pro game.
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
If you make head contact with the shoulder despite the circumstances it should be treated in the same manner.
Lolwut? Circumstances are everything. Every maul in the game has 'head contact with the shoulder'.
Didn't think Vunipola's clear out was close to a red. Barrett was lying in the tackle area (although admittedly trying to roll) and thus fair game. Vunipola bound with both arms, went off his feet but it's almost impossible not to when clearing out a player lying on the ball. You see a number of clear outs a like that each game - I honestly think it wouldn't even have been yellow were it not for the fact he had just just been penalised for a late charge on the same player.
@booboo open your other eye when you watch the replay mate.
Fuck me, the Lions did everything they could to lose that game in the third quarter. Brainless play to continuously give away the pill and a succession of penalties when it looked like all they had to do was keep their composure and they were bound to win.
Got there in the end though, and there were some good performances along the way. Some on here were questioning the Itoje hype earlier in the tour, well I thought he was the best player on the park today. Up against the consensus best lock pairing in the world, he was fantastic. Faletau and Murray excellent too, and the extra width of the Sexton-Farrell pairing helped exploit the man advantage, although it remains to be seen if it would work against 15.
Well done New Zealand, fantastic display of up-the guts rugby. Direct through the middle with some lovely smuggling of the ball to support runners to keep the momentum going. The Lions made so many tackles and never got the chance to get their line speed going.
For the men in red, they created some good chances but just failed to take them. The worrying thing is that I'm not sure where they can go selection-wise; most of the contentious calls were probably the correct ones, and most of the subs, particularly in the backs, weakened the side in the second half rather than providing impact.
For next week I'd probably keep the back line as it was, maybe add North to the bench in place of Halfpenny. The tight five needs to improve - I'd swap AWJ for Itoje. I'd also be really tempted to start Sinkler: Furlong looked like a force of nature back in November but he's been subdued on this tour. Sinkler by contrast seems to make metres with every carry, and more surprisingly the scrum has looked rock solid with him anchoring it. Give the boy a shot.
The back row went well although Faletau was a bit quiet compared to previous performances. O'Mahony looked injured coming off - if that's the case you'd assume it's Warburton into the starting XV and Stander to the bench, which might again add some more pop in the second half.