All Blacks vs Ireland
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
So Proctor is supposed to plan his family around the schedule of a team he didn't even know he was going to be in.
Exactly. They 100% had this Convo beforehand and good on management for understanding what's best for the person in this case.
If we think we need to get to the point that we are telling our players to give up even being there for the birth of their first child (and possibly just to hold tackle bags that week) we are completely fucked.
The old adage/macho alpha male-give up ALL aspects of your life, no excuses EVER, suck it up.. is just a cringe toxic culture.
It's BS, it doesn't lead to better results. It leads to a toxic culture.
Proctor will be forever grateful to management and leadership for making this process as smooth as they have done and he'll do what he can to pay it back tenfold.
You only need to look at results. We already had the old macho culture.."newbies don't speak up, do what you're told..know your place".., we had that in 2004 as a byproduct of the amateur era.
Ted and co chucked ALL of it out and produced the greatest period in All Black history.
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Ted and co chucked ALL of it out and produced the greatest period in All Black history.
Um.
https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/1924-invincibles-all-black-team -
Heads up for all that is also.....
A Raeburn Shield match
Gutted I couldn't get the shield made in time but have everything ready to go for when I can unlock some extra funds
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
All the best to Proctor but can’t help but feel he’s not done himself any favours
Hard disagree, Mike. Whānau comes first. All the best to Billy Proctor and his family for the days ahead.
Why didn't he just make himself unavailable for tour like soon-to-be dad Hunter Paisami already has?
Why should NZ Rugby be paying to jet people back and forth between hemispheres because they want to have a slice of each cake rather than committing to one (prioritize family life or highly-paid All Black commitments).
Proctor should've given up his spot for someone else who would've killed for the opportunity to represent their country instead of attempting to have a bob each way.
Think you may be being a bit unfair. We don't know the full details - babies don't always arrive when people expect and medical complications resulting in premature birth are common, particularly if this is their first child.
His wife and kid come first and NZR are absolutely right to support him.
It does make me laugh how people get so upset about things like this. It is essentially an employment matter with an employer and employee want to do the right thing for the good of both parties.
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
All the best to Proctor but can’t help but feel he’s not done himself any favours
Hard disagree, Mike. Whānau comes first. All the best to Billy Proctor and his family for the days ahead.
Why didn't he just make himself unavailable for tour like soon-to-be dad Hunter Paisami already has?
Why should NZ Rugby be paying to jet people back and forth between hemispheres because they want to have a slice of each cake rather than committing to one (prioritize family life or highly-paid All Black commitments).
Proctor should've given up his spot for someone else who would've killed for the opportunity to represent their country instead of attempting to have a bob each way.
Think you may be being a bit unfair. We don't know the full details - babies don't always arrive when people expect and medical complications resulting in premature birth are common, particularly if this is their first child.
His wife and kid come first and NZR are absolutely right to support him.
It does make me laugh how people get so upset about things like this. It is essentially an employment matter with an employer and employee want to do the right thing for the good of both parties.
Maybe so
But as we’ve seen it’s harder to get out of the ABs than in, his ship may have sailed
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
All the best to Proctor but can’t help but feel he’s not done himself any favours
Hard disagree, Mike. Whānau comes first. All the best to Billy Proctor and his family for the days ahead.
Why didn't he just make himself unavailable for tour like soon-to-be dad Hunter Paisami already has?
Why should NZ Rugby be paying to jet people back and forth between hemispheres because they want to have a slice of each cake rather than committing to one (prioritize family life or highly-paid All Black commitments).
Proctor should've given up his spot for someone else who would've killed for the opportunity to represent their country instead of attempting to have a bob each way.
Think you may be being a bit unfair. We don't know the full details - babies don't always arrive when people expect and medical complications resulting in premature birth are common, particularly if this is their first child.
His wife and kid come first and NZR are absolutely right to support him.
It does make me laugh how people get so upset about things like this. It is essentially an employment matter with an employer and employee want to do the right thing for the good of both parties.
Maybe so
But as we’ve seen it’s harder to get out of the ABs than in, his ship may have sailed
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
But as we’ve seen it’s harder to get out of the ABs than in, his ship may have sailed
We don't have many ships with "test quality 13" on their sails.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
But as we’ve seen it’s harder to get out of the ABs than in, his ship may have sailed
We don't have many ships with "test quality 13" on their sails.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
But as we’ve seen it’s harder to get out of the ABs than in, his ship may have sailed
We don't have many ships with "test quality 13" on their sails.
And yet he’s still ignored
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
So Proctor is supposed to plan his family around the schedule of a team he didn't even know he was going to be in.
Correct.
A rogue mickey felled many good man.
I think I've seen you mention you don't have kids before, and I know your comments are somewhat tongue in cheek, but just so you know it's very difficult to time when the baby will be born. You basically just start trying when you decide you want one, and then wait for it to happen which can be months or even years for some couples. Then there's the fact that 99% of babies don't actually arrive on their due date, it can also be weeks either side. This scenario has played out many times in the past and will play out again in the future even if NZR did try to direct players, which they obviously won't. Of course in the old days the Dad didn't attend the birth, but that was some time ago now and we're just not going back as it's absurd to miss a moment as meaningful as that.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
So Proctor is supposed to plan his family around the schedule of a team he didn't even know he was going to be in.
Correct.
A rogue mickey felled many good man.
I think I've seen you mention you don't have kids before, and I know your comments are somewhat tongue in cheek, but just so you know it's very difficult to time when the baby will be born. You basically just start trying when you decide you want one, and then wait for it to happen which can be months or even years for some couples. Then there's the fact that 99% of babies don't actually arrive on their due date, it can also be weeks either side. This scenario has played out many times in the past and will play out again in the future even if NZR did try to direct players, which they obviously won't. Of course in the old days the Dad didn't attend the birth, but that was some time ago now and we're just not going back as it's absurd to miss a moment as meaningful as that.
I would'nt be going near "the Sheilas" if I was trying to establish myself in a test footie career.
My comments are tongue in cheek yes, but I never understand lads compromising themselves like this.
Plenty of time in your 30's to be knocking out chisellers if you are insane enough to bother in this day and age.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
So Proctor is supposed to plan his family around the schedule of a team he didn't even know he was going to be in.
Correct.
A rogue mickey felled many good man.
I think I've seen you mention you don't have kids before, and I know your comments are somewhat tongue in cheek, but just so you know it's very difficult to time when the baby will be born. You basically just start trying when you decide you want one, and then wait for it to happen which can be months or even years for some couples. Then there's the fact that 99% of babies don't actually arrive on their due date, it can also be weeks either side. This scenario has played out many times in the past and will play out again in the future even if NZR did try to direct players, which they obviously won't. Of course in the old days the Dad didn't attend the birth, but that was some time ago now and we're just not going back as it's absurd to miss a moment as meaningful as that.
I would'nt be going near "the Sheilas" if I was trying to establish myself in a test footie career.
My comments are tongue in cheek yes, but I never understand lads compromising themselves like this.
Plenty of time in your 30's to be knocking out chisellers if you are insane enough to bother in this day and age.
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Plenty of time in your 30's to be knocking out chisellers if you are insane enough to bother in this day and age.
a even for men, sperm quality decreases with age (https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929275-500-mens-sperm-quality-decreases-at-age-35/) and
b https://www.who.int/news/item/04-04-2023-1-in-6-people-globally-affected-by-infertility and
c People like Buck Shelford might well have had a reason -
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
So Proctor is supposed to plan his family around the schedule of a team he didn't even know he was going to be in.
Correct.
A rogue mickey felled many good man.
I think I've seen you mention you don't have kids before, and I know your comments are somewhat tongue in cheek, but just so you know it's very difficult to time when the baby will be born. You basically just start trying when you decide you want one, and then wait for it to happen which can be months or even years for some couples. Then there's the fact that 99% of babies don't actually arrive on their due date, it can also be weeks either side. This scenario has played out many times in the past and will play out again in the future even if NZR did try to direct players, which they obviously won't. Of course in the old days the Dad didn't attend the birth, but that was some time ago now and we're just not going back as it's absurd to miss a moment as meaningful as that.
I would'nt be going near "the Sheilas" if I was trying to establish myself in a test footie career.
My comments are tongue in cheek yes, but I never understand lads compromising themselves like this.
Plenty of time in your 30's to be knocking out chisellers if you are insane enough to bother in this day and age.
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
I would'nt be going near "the Sheilas" if I was trying to establish myself in a test footie career.
Lie to us, lie to your friends ... but don't lie to yourself!
My comments are tongue in cheek yes, but I never understand lads compromising themselves like this.
Plenty of time in your 30's to be knocking out chisellers if you are insane enough to bother in this day and age.
It just doesn't work like that at all. I wasn't ready for kids when I was 30, yet when I was 33 I was desperate. I've got friends that were ready at 40, and I've got cousins who had kids at 20 and none of us have any single regret with our decisons.
The only ones I know with regret, are those who were ready too late and failed to conceive.
Aside, I think you'd fine NZRU may well have a hell of a lawsuit on their hands if they discriminated against somebody due to their children.
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Plenty of time in your 30's to be knocking out chisellers if you are insane enough to bother in this day and age.
a even for men, sperm quality decreases with age (https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929275-500-mens-sperm-quality-decreases-at-age-35/) and
b https://www.who.int/news/item/04-04-2023-1-in-6-people-globally-affected-by-infertility and
c People like Buck Shelford might well have had a reason@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Plenty of time in your 30's to be knocking out chisellers if you are insane enough to bother in this day and age.
a even for men, sperm quality decreases with age (https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21929275-500-mens-sperm-quality-decreases-at-age-35/) and
b https://www.who.int/news/item/04-04-2023-1-in-6-people-globally-affected-by-infertility and
c People like Buck Shelford might well have had a reasonIm just of the opinion that to get to the top top, not just in sport but be it in the corporate world etc, youve got to be giving 100% to that endeavour especially in the infancy of your career arc.
Partner in law firm, professional rugby player, C Suite exec etc.
You should be all in.
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
I would'nt be going near "the Sheilas" if I was trying to establish myself in a test footie career.
Lie to us, lie to your friends ... but don't lie to yourself!
My comments are tongue in cheek yes, but I never understand lads compromising themselves like this.
Plenty of time in your 30's to be knocking out chisellers if you are insane enough to bother in this day and age.
It just doesn't work like that at all. I wasn't ready for kids when I was 30, yet when I was 33 I was desperate. I've got friends that were ready at 40, and I've got cousins who had kids at 20 and none of us have any single regret with our decisons.
The only ones I know with regret, are those who were ready too late and failed to conceive.
Aside, I think you'd fine NZRU may well have a hell of a lawsuit on their hands if they discriminated against somebody due to their children.
@MajorRage said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
I would'nt be going near "the Sheilas" if I was trying to establish myself in a test footie career.
Lie to us, lie to your friends ... but don't lie to yourself!
My comments are tongue in cheek yes, but I never understand lads compromising themselves like this.
Plenty of time in your 30's to be knocking out chisellers if you are insane enough to bother in this day and age.
It just doesn't work like that at all. I wasn't ready for kids when I was 30, yet when I was 33 I was desperate. I've got friends that were ready at 40, and I've got cousins who had kids at 20 and none of us have any single regret with our decisons.
The only ones I know with regret, are those who were ready too late and failed to conceive.
Aside, I think you'd fine NZRU may well have a hell of a lawsuit on their hands if they discriminated against somebody due to their children.
Oh I have no issue with the NZRU at all, nor have I any issue with Billy.
Im just musing about whether the ambition to get right to the top in your field and having domestic bliss go hand in hand. I think you need to be selfish and almost sociopathically driven to get right to the top.
Be it having the odd beer, the odd ciggie or starting a family.
I told every sheila I was with that I didnt want kids from the get go. It was a non negotiable. And my career has flourished as a result, as I could say yes to every opportunity presented to me and was able to move anywhere in the world at a moments notice.
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
All the best to Proctor but can’t help but feel he’s not done himself any favours
Im in with Mike here.
I remember watching a documentary about the NFL, think it was hard knocks, where they called the whole roster in and basically said "the next 6 weeks would be a good time to make some babies if thats what you were planning on doing" in order to have the pregnancies fall in the off season.
I also love this one from Roy Keane :
Richie McCaw didn't even give a woman the time of day during his career.
GOAT gonna GOAT.
If he did, he certainly wasn't getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Much like his career
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
All the best to Proctor but can’t help but feel he’s not done himself any favours
Im in with Mike here.
I remember watching a documentary about the NFL, think it was hard knocks, where they called the whole roster in and basically said "the next 6 weeks would be a good time to make some babies if thats what you were planning on doing" in order to have the pregnancies fall in the off season.
I also love this one from Roy Keane :
Richie McCaw didn't even give a woman the time of day during his career.
GOAT gonna GOAT.
If he did, he certainly wasn't getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Much like his career
"Black 7 roll away"
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Nice article on Robertson.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cd9nq9n1v0jo
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Gotta feeling the ABs will go well this Friday. Plenty of motivation and blown away a few cobwebs.
Roigard-DMac I think will probably start and is our strongest combo.
Would love it if management threw the cat amongst the pigeons and put Sititi in his preferred no 8 position teaming up with Roigard and DMac. Savea on the side of the scrum.
Impressed w the bomb squad props / lock so we are in a pretty good position. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
On Sititi, is 8 his preferred position? He played 7 with Lakai at 8 in the U21?
Sititi was a no.8 up until then. The Blues U20s highlights are on YT, where he was the captain and no.8. Long-term Sititi will be a no.8 and Lakai a 7, the opposite of the positions they played for the NZ U20s.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
On Sititi, is 8 his preferred position? He played 7 with Lakai at 8 in the U21?
Sititi was a no.8 up until then. The Blues U20s highlights are on YT, where he was the captain and no.8. Long-term Sititi will be a no.8 and Lakai a 7, the opposite of the positions they played for the NZ U20s.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
On Sititi, is 8 his preferred position? He played 7 with Lakai at 8 in the U21?
Sititi was a no.8 up until then. The Blues U20s highlights are on YT, where he was the captain and no.8. Long-term Sititi will be a no.8 and Lakai a 7, the opposite of the positions they played for the NZ U20s.
Why did they reverse them - was Lakai an 8 as well at that point?
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Interesting contrast of styles between the super structured Ireland, who are kind of more than the sum of their parts, and NZ, who never seem to be as good as their talent suggests.
Guys like Aki and Lowe couldn't make the ABs but are key pieces for Ireland. I wonder if the ABs would be better if they were more structured, or would it detract from the natural ability of our players. People in NZ are super critical of guys like Reiko, DMac and Mo'unga... But in a vacuum they are probably the best athletes and/or most talented players in their positions in the world. Why don't we get the best out of them?
Reiko is 105kgs, probably the fastest player in the squad, extreme acceleration. He's a much better athlete than guys like Kriel or Slade, maybe any 13... Dmac has the most speed of any 10, an awesome skillset, maybe the best catch pass of anyone, again a much better athlete than a Pollard or Sexton... Yet neither is anywhere near as productive on the field. Why?
