Italy v All Blacks

MiketheSnow

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

@No-Quarter said in Italy v All Blacks:

The selection philosophy from Razor and his team this year can only be described as either ultra conservative, picking all the same players Fozzie couldn't move on from, or anti-Blues / pro-Crusaders players. Even Sititi our breakout player of the year only made the squad as they were desperate to exclude Hoskins and Akira, and then only got a chance through injury to teachers pet Blackadder. I am struggling to think of a single inspired selection this year TBH. It's exactly the opposite of what I expected after reading the Razor fluffers go on about how professional and innovative he is.

I for one welcomed him aboard, but I expected far more than this from a selection standpoint, both in overall squad and in selections for this gameday. Just flaccid

I was thoroughly underwhelmed leading into the autumn internationals and predicted we would lose all of the big three games against ENG, IRE and FRA.

We won two and the sun started to rise.

Subsequently England have lost to everyone, and Ireland were very lucky to beat Argentina, having not scored after the 35th minute onwards I believe. Some very dubious reffing kept them in it.

Which with my barstool maths, leads me to believe that England are shite and Ireland are on a downward trajectory.

So where are we really?

I cant fathom how in 2024, Beaudy, Cane, TJP, ALB and Havili are still in and around the squad, never mind the run on team. Now thats not to say they arent the best available, but where is the production line?

Cane and Beaudy are legends and have given us some great days and great moments, some even recently granted, but normally with NZ we always ask if a player retired too soon or was cut unfairly ala Cullen. Now we have guys stat padding their cap tally and over staying their welcomes.

Im not used to wanting to see the back of players who wore the fern with pride.

But I am sick of the sight of some of them.

Razor has underwhelmed and Razor Inc is guilty of false advertising.

This is 2023 standard with better P.R and marketing.

The culture is definitely cosy (has been since 2017 Lions Tour) and there are far too many punters in there who are used to losing test matches.

They wont be writing "high performance" audiobooks about this iteration of the Allblacks anyway.

England could easily be 2-1

MN5

@voodoo said in Italy v All Blacks:

I’m fine with Cane starting and TJ getting a send off (Ratima needs a break, hopefully Lakai gets 20 after Cane leaves to a standing O)

But Havili and BB is so fucken idiotic.

Hopefully it’s a send off for him too ?

Billy Tell

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

MN5

@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:

I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not

10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)

True, when he comes on for impact and throws a pass to the sideline it should keep Italy within 40

NTA

Italy v Georgia was very entertaining, but if your lot don't put 50 on the Azzurri, that's a fail

bayimports

@NTA said in Italy v All Blacks:

Italy v Georgia was very entertaining, but if your lot don't put 50 on the Azzurri, that's a fail

Agree for all the talk, if this team doesn’t perform then counts for nothing

Kirwan

Worst selectors since Mitchell and Deans.

Tim

Been posted a million times already, but it's odd that they're not giving Love a go. We clearly need more fast players as back three options.

Lancaster Park

I think they are just playing the long game. Keeping TJ and Cane to instill ABs culture and slowly build from there.
For all the anti razor stuff around sotutu and akira not being picked but Wallace did they did show that they knew the qualities they were looking for (not just playing wise ...hes a future captain I suspect).
I would have liked to see Love get a run but given the 9 months to the next test I think they are drawing a lined under this seasons team and see who develops in super.

Core team with a few changes, happy with that.

nostrildamus

I think England are good when they can play how they plan but areceadily buckled by changes in opponent tatics. This is what concerns me about the ABs - they don't know how play to the opponents' strategic weaknesses or tactical changes. Noticeable after halftime.

Bones

@Lancaster-Park said in Italy v All Blacks:

see who develops in super

I wouldn't hold my breath on this season's evidence.

Victor Meldrew

@Lancaster-Park said in Italy v All Blacks:

I think they are just playing the long game. Keeping TJ and Cane to instill ABs culture and slowly build from there.
For all the anti razor stuff around sotutu and akira not being picked but Wallace did they did show that they knew the qualities they were looking for (not just playing wise ...hes a future captain I suspect).
I would have liked to see Love get a run but given the 9 months to the next test I think they are drawing a lined under this seasons team and see who develops in super.

Core team with a few changes, happy with that.

Well, that the likes of Sititi and Lakia slotted in pretty seamlessly when their "key" players were injured is a credit to Robertson and co. I guess.

But if they are waiting to see who develops in Super Rugby next year, then you have to ask what they were actually doing this year...

Bones

@Victor-Meldrew learning from the old heads what's required from a test coach?

Mr Fish

New caps that played (significant minutes) against strong opposition:
Pasilio Tosi
Sam Darry
Wallace Sititi
Pete Lakai
Cortez Ratima

Other new caps:
George Bell
Noah Hotham
Harry Plummer
Billy Proctor
Ruben Love

Unused players brought into the squad:
Brodie McAlister
Fabian Holland
Christian Lio-Willie
Du'Plessis Kirifi
AJ Lam
Chay Fihaki

Youngsters that played (significant minutes) against experienced opposition:
Samipeni Finau
Cam Roigard
Stephen Perofeta

Other youngsters:
Josh Lord
Emoni Narawa

Think that's everyone?

Bones

@Mr-Fish is Perofeta really a youngster?

Mr Fish

@Bones said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish is Perofeta really a youngster?

I really just mean inexperienced guys, but no he's not that young anymore!

booboo

@MiketheSnow said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Jet said in Italy v All Blacks:

@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:

@No-Quarter said in Italy v All Blacks:

The selection philosophy from Razor and his team this year can only be described as either ultra conservative, picking all the same players Fozzie couldn't move on from, or anti-Blues / pro-Crusaders players. Even Sititi our breakout player of the year only made the squad as they were desperate to exclude Hoskins and Akira, and then only got a chance through injury to teachers pet Blackadder. I am struggling to think of a single inspired selection this year TBH. It's exactly the opposite of what I expected after reading the Razor fluffers go on about how professional and innovative he is.

I for one welcomed him aboard, but I expected far more than this from a selection standpoint, both in overall squad and in selections for this gameday. Just flaccid

I was thoroughly underwhelmed leading into the autumn internationals and predicted we would lose all of the big three games against ENG, IRE and FRA.

We won two and the sun started to rise.

Subsequently England have lost to everyone, and Ireland were very lucky to beat Argentina, having not scored after the 35th minute onwards I believe. Some very dubious reffing kept them in it.

Which with my barstool maths, leads me to believe that England are shite and Ireland are on a downward trajectory.

So where are we really?

I cant fathom how in 2024, Beaudy, Cane, TJP, ALB and Havili are still in and around the squad, never mind the run on team. Now thats not to say they arent the best available, but where is the production line?

Cane and Beaudy are legends and have given us some great days and great moments, some even recently granted, but normally with NZ we always ask if a player retired too soon or was cut unfairly ala Cullen. Now we have guys stat padding their cap tally and over staying their welcomes.

Im not used to wanting to see the back of players who wore the fern with pride.

But I am sick of the sight of some of them.

Razor has underwhelmed and Razor Inc is guilty of false advertising.

This is 2023 standard with better P.R and marketing.

The culture is definitely cosy (has been since 2017 Lions Tour) and there are far too many punters in there who are used to losing test matches.

They wont be writing "high performance" audiobooks about this iteration of the Allblacks anyway.

England could easily be 2-1

We could easily have been 2-0 v SA and 1-0 v France ... what ifs ...

All we've got are actual results.

If my memory serves correctly our results to date are:

4 from 7 of games identified as potential losses or 50/50s
5 from 6 (with one to play) of games we expected to win.

Not historically bad. But that loss to Argies is the real blot.

antipodean

@Mr-Fish said in Italy v All Blacks:

Harry Plummer

Who will forget his one and only cap. Two minutes on the field and didn't touch the ball. Great coaching.

canefan

@Victor-Meldrew said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Lancaster-Park said in Italy v All Blacks:

I think they are just playing the long game. Keeping TJ and Cane to instill ABs culture and slowly build from there.
For all the anti razor stuff around sotutu and akira not being picked but Wallace did they did show that they knew the qualities they were looking for (not just playing wise ...hes a future captain I suspect).
I would have liked to see Love get a run but given the 9 months to the next test I think they are drawing a lined under this seasons team and see who develops in super.

Core team with a few changes, happy with that.

Well, that the likes of Sititi and Lakia slotted in pretty seamlessly when their "key" players were injured is a credit to Robertson and co. I guess.

But if they are waiting to see who develops in Super Rugby next year, then you have to ask what they were actually doing this year...

The best selector in Razor's team this year was injury. I don't think it's outrageous to say that if Razor had been able to select the team he wanted every week, Wallace would have been lucky to make the bench

canefan

@Bones said in Italy v All Blacks:

@Mr-Fish is Perofeta really a youngster?

Perofeta is a nearly man, standing in the way of us finding someone young and better for 2027

The Silver Fern

Italy v All Blacks