Italy v All Blacks
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@No-Quarter said in Italy v All Blacks:
The selection philosophy from Razor and his team this year can only be described as either ultra conservative, picking all the same players Fozzie couldn't move on from, or anti-Blues / pro-Crusaders players. Even Sititi our breakout player of the year only made the squad as they were desperate to exclude Hoskins and Akira, and then only got a chance through injury to teachers pet Blackadder. I am struggling to think of a single inspired selection this year TBH. It's exactly the opposite of what I expected after reading the Razor fluffers go on about how professional and innovative he is.
I for one welcomed him aboard, but I expected far more than this from a selection standpoint, both in overall squad and in selections for this gameday. Just flaccid
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
@No-Quarter said in Italy v All Blacks:
The selection philosophy from Razor and his team this year can only be described as either ultra conservative, picking all the same players Fozzie couldn't move on from, or anti-Blues / pro-Crusaders players. Even Sititi our breakout player of the year only made the squad as they were desperate to exclude Hoskins and Akira, and then only got a chance through injury to teachers pet Blackadder. I am struggling to think of a single inspired selection this year TBH. It's exactly the opposite of what I expected after reading the Razor fluffers go on about how professional and innovative he is.
I for one welcomed him aboard, but I expected far more than this from a selection standpoint, both in overall squad and in selections for this gameday. Just flaccid
I was thoroughly underwhelmed leading into the autumn internationals and predicted we would lose all of the big three games against ENG, IRE and FRA.
We won two and the sun started to rise.
Subsequently England have lost to everyone, and Ireland were very lucky to beat Argentina, having not scored after the 35th minute onwards I believe. Some very dubious reffing kept them in it.
Which with my barstool maths, leads me to believe that England are shite and Ireland are on a downward trajectory.
So where are we really?
I cant fathom how in 2024, Beaudy, Cane, TJP, ALB and Havili are still in and around the squad, never mind the run on team. Now thats not to say they arent the best available, but where is the production line?
Cane and Beaudy are legends and have given us some great days and great moments, some even recently granted, but normally with NZ we always ask if a player retired too soon or was cut unfairly ala Cullen. Now we have guys stat padding their cap tally and over staying their welcomes.
Im not used to wanting to see the back of players who wore the fern with pride.
But I am sick of the sight of some of them.
Razor has underwhelmed and Razor Inc is guilty of false advertising.
This is 2023 standard with better P.R and marketing.
The culture is definitely cosy (has been since 2017 Lions Tour) and there are far too many punters in there who are used to losing test matches.
They wont be writing "high performance" audiobooks about this iteration of the Allblacks anyway.
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@Bones said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Darren said in Italy v All Blacks:
Sititi
I'm even loathe to give him credit for that - a newbie playing out of position. Got very fucking lucky.
Going off how the rest of the team has been selected, If it wasn’t for injuries , I’m not convinced sititi gets a run at all this year , particularly at 6 with Blackadder playing there before him
They fluked that one imo
@kiwiinmelb said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Bones said in Italy v All Blacks:
@Darren said in Italy v All Blacks:
Sititi
I'm even loathe to give him credit for that - a newbie playing out of position. Got very fucking lucky.
Going off how the rest of the team has been selected, If it wasn’t for injuries , I’m not convinced sititi gets a run at all this year , particularly at 6 with Blackadder playing there before him
They fluked that one imo
Not with Sititi. Ryan already has his eyes on Sititi for a while. He may have been eased in but there was already massive wraps on him from the coaches.
I think with Ratima, Aumua, Tosi that luck was on our side with those as injury forced inclusions.
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@African-Monkey said in Italy v All Blacks:
@game_film said in Italy v All Blacks:
Compare and contrast the fortunes of Havili and Sotutu. It ain’t right, I’m telling ya, it ain’t right.
Havili is good on both sides of the ball.
Positive body language.
@gt12 said in Italy v All Blacks:
@African-Monkey said in Italy v All Blacks:
@game_film said in Italy v All Blacks:
Compare and contrast the fortunes of Havili and Sotutu. It ain’t right, I’m telling ya, it ain’t right.
Havili is good on both sides of the ball.
Positive body language.
He’s world class on both sides of the water bottle.
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Team to play Italy.
All Blacks: 1. Ethan de Groot 2. Codie Taylor 3. Tyrel Lomax 4. Scott Barrett (c) 5. Patrick Tuipulotu 6. Wallace Sititi 7. Sam Cane 8. Ardie Savea 9. Cam Roigard 10. Beauden Barrett 11. Caleb Clarke 12. Anton Lienert-Brown 13. Rieko Ioane 14. Mark Tele'a 15. Will Jordan
Bench: 16. Asafo Aumua 17. Ofa Tu'ungafasi 18. Fletcher Newell 19. Tupou Vaa'i 20. Peter Lakai 21. TJ Perenara 22. David Havili 23. Damian McKenzie
@Landers92 said in Italy v All Blacks:
Team to play Italy.
All Blacks: 1. Ethan de Groot 2. Codie Taylor 3. Tyrel Lomax 4. Scott Barrett (c) 5. Patrick Tuipulotu 6. Wallace Sititi 7. Sam Cane 8. Ardie Savea 9. Cam Roigard 10. Beauden Barrett 11. Caleb Clarke 12. Anton Lienert-Brown 13. Rieko Ioane 14. Mark Tele'a 15. Will Jordan
Bench: 16. Asafo Aumua 17. Ofa Tu'ungafasi 18. Fletcher Newell 19. Tupou Vaa'i 20. Peter Lakai 21. TJ Perenara 22. David Havili 23. Damian McKenzie
I don't get what they're trying to achieve here. Gone are the days of old where nobody was handed a cap, but what's the point of rolling out what appears to be our best available team, other than to give TJ un affettuoso addio.
Who is being developed here? Not even the bench suggests valuable Test time.
Why is Havili?
Can anyone explain this?
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@Landers92 said in Italy v All Blacks:
Team to play Italy.
All Blacks: 1. Ethan de Groot 2. Codie Taylor 3. Tyrel Lomax 4. Scott Barrett (c) 5. Patrick Tuipulotu 6. Wallace Sititi 7. Sam Cane 8. Ardie Savea 9. Cam Roigard 10. Beauden Barrett 11. Caleb Clarke 12. Anton Lienert-Brown 13. Rieko Ioane 14. Mark Tele'a 15. Will Jordan
Bench: 16. Asafo Aumua 17. Ofa Tu'ungafasi 18. Fletcher Newell 19. Tupou Vaa'i 20. Peter Lakai 21. TJ Perenara 22. David Havili 23. Damian McKenzie
I don't get what they're trying to achieve here. Gone are the days of old where nobody was handed a cap, but what's the point of rolling out what appears to be our best available team, other than to give TJ un affettuoso addio.
Who is being developed here? Not even the bench suggests valuable Test time.
Why is Havili?
Can anyone explain this?
@antipodean said in Italy v All Blacks:
Can anyone explain this?
innovative systems.
this is how you get a club side from Div 2 to winning Div 1. Don't question it bro
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@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
@No-Quarter said in Italy v All Blacks:
The selection philosophy from Razor and his team this year can only be described as either ultra conservative, picking all the same players Fozzie couldn't move on from, or anti-Blues / pro-Crusaders players. Even Sititi our breakout player of the year only made the squad as they were desperate to exclude Hoskins and Akira, and then only got a chance through injury to teachers pet Blackadder. I am struggling to think of a single inspired selection this year TBH. It's exactly the opposite of what I expected after reading the Razor fluffers go on about how professional and innovative he is.
I for one welcomed him aboard, but I expected far more than this from a selection standpoint, both in overall squad and in selections for this gameday. Just flaccid
I was thoroughly underwhelmed leading into the autumn internationals and predicted we would lose all of the big three games against ENG, IRE and FRA.
We won two and the sun started to rise.
Subsequently England have lost to everyone, and Ireland were very lucky to beat Argentina, having not scored after the 35th minute onwards I believe. Some very dubious reffing kept them in it.
Which with my barstool maths, leads me to believe that England are shite and Ireland are on a downward trajectory.
So where are we really?
I cant fathom how in 2024, Beaudy, Cane, TJP, ALB and Havili are still in and around the squad, never mind the run on team. Now thats not to say they arent the best available, but where is the production line?
Cane and Beaudy are legends and have given us some great days and great moments, some even recently granted, but normally with NZ we always ask if a player retired too soon or was cut unfairly ala Cullen. Now we have guys stat padding their cap tally and over staying their welcomes.
Im not used to wanting to see the back of players who wore the fern with pride.
But I am sick of the sight of some of them.
Razor has underwhelmed and Razor Inc is guilty of false advertising.
This is 2023 standard with better P.R and marketing.
The culture is definitely cosy (has been since 2017 Lions Tour) and there are far too many punters in there who are used to losing test matches.
They wont be writing "high performance" audiobooks about this iteration of the Allblacks anyway.
@Jet said in Italy v All Blacks:
@canefan said in Italy v All Blacks:
@No-Quarter said in Italy v All Blacks:
The selection philosophy from Razor and his team this year can only be described as either ultra conservative, picking all the same players Fozzie couldn't move on from, or anti-Blues / pro-Crusaders players. Even Sititi our breakout player of the year only made the squad as they were desperate to exclude Hoskins and Akira, and then only got a chance through injury to teachers pet Blackadder. I am struggling to think of a single inspired selection this year TBH. It's exactly the opposite of what I expected after reading the Razor fluffers go on about how professional and innovative he is.
I for one welcomed him aboard, but I expected far more than this from a selection standpoint, both in overall squad and in selections for this gameday. Just flaccid
I was thoroughly underwhelmed leading into the autumn internationals and predicted we would lose all of the big three games against ENG, IRE and FRA.
We won two and the sun started to rise.
Subsequently England have lost to everyone, and Ireland were very lucky to beat Argentina, having not scored after the 35th minute onwards I believe. Some very dubious reffing kept them in it.
Which with my barstool maths, leads me to believe that England are shite and Ireland are on a downward trajectory.
So where are we really?
I cant fathom how in 2024, Beaudy, Cane, TJP, ALB and Havili are still in and around the squad, never mind the run on team. Now thats not to say they arent the best available, but where is the production line?
Cane and Beaudy are legends and have given us some great days and great moments, some even recently granted, but normally with NZ we always ask if a player retired too soon or was cut unfairly ala Cullen. Now we have guys stat padding their cap tally and over staying their welcomes.
Im not used to wanting to see the back of players who wore the fern with pride.
But I am sick of the sight of some of them.
Razor has underwhelmed and Razor Inc is guilty of false advertising.
This is 2023 standard with better P.R and marketing.
The culture is definitely cosy (has been since 2017 Lions Tour) and there are far too many punters in there who are used to losing test matches.
They wont be writing "high performance" audiobooks about this iteration of the Allblacks anyway.
England could easily be 2-1
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I’m fine with Cane starting and TJ getting a send off (Ratima needs a break, hopefully Lakai gets 20 after Cane leaves to a standing O)
But Havili and BB is so fucken idiotic.
@voodoo said in Italy v All Blacks:
I’m fine with Cane starting and TJ getting a send off (Ratima needs a break, hopefully Lakai gets 20 after Cane leaves to a standing O)
But Havili and BB is so fucken idiotic.
Hopefully it’s a send off for him too ?
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I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not
10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love) -
I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not
10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)@Billy-Tell said in Italy v All Blacks:
I don’t have such a problem with Havili on the bench. But it does my head in that it’s not
10 McKenzie
15 Love
22 Perofeta (or swap with Love)True, when he comes on for impact and throws a pass to the sideline it should keep Italy within 40
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Italy v Georgia was very entertaining, but if your lot don't put 50 on the Azzurri, that's a fail
@NTA said in Italy v All Blacks:
Italy v Georgia was very entertaining, but if your lot don't put 50 on the Azzurri, that's a fail
Agree for all the talk, if this team doesn’t perform then counts for nothing
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I think they are just playing the long game. Keeping TJ and Cane to instill ABs culture and slowly build from there.
For all the anti razor stuff around sotutu and akira not being picked but Wallace did they did show that they knew the qualities they were looking for (not just playing wise ...hes a future captain I suspect).
I would have liked to see Love get a run but given the 9 months to the next test I think they are drawing a lined under this seasons team and see who develops in super.Core team with a few changes, happy with that.
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I think England are good when they can play how they plan but areceadily buckled by changes in opponent tatics. This is what concerns me about the ABs - they don't know how play to the opponents' strategic weaknesses or tactical changes. Noticeable after halftime.
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I think they are just playing the long game. Keeping TJ and Cane to instill ABs culture and slowly build from there.
For all the anti razor stuff around sotutu and akira not being picked but Wallace did they did show that they knew the qualities they were looking for (not just playing wise ...hes a future captain I suspect).
I would have liked to see Love get a run but given the 9 months to the next test I think they are drawing a lined under this seasons team and see who develops in super.Core team with a few changes, happy with that.
@Lancaster-Park said in Italy v All Blacks:
see who develops in super
I wouldn't hold my breath on this season's evidence.
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I think they are just playing the long game. Keeping TJ and Cane to instill ABs culture and slowly build from there.
For all the anti razor stuff around sotutu and akira not being picked but Wallace did they did show that they knew the qualities they were looking for (not just playing wise ...hes a future captain I suspect).
I would have liked to see Love get a run but given the 9 months to the next test I think they are drawing a lined under this seasons team and see who develops in super.Core team with a few changes, happy with that.
@Lancaster-Park said in Italy v All Blacks:
I think they are just playing the long game. Keeping TJ and Cane to instill ABs culture and slowly build from there.
For all the anti razor stuff around sotutu and akira not being picked but Wallace did they did show that they knew the qualities they were looking for (not just playing wise ...hes a future captain I suspect).
I would have liked to see Love get a run but given the 9 months to the next test I think they are drawing a lined under this seasons team and see who develops in super.Core team with a few changes, happy with that.
Well, that the likes of Sititi and Lakia slotted in pretty seamlessly when their "key" players were injured is a credit to Robertson and co. I guess.
But if they are waiting to see who develops in Super Rugby next year, then you have to ask what they were actually doing this year...
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@Lancaster-Park said in Italy v All Blacks:
I think they are just playing the long game. Keeping TJ and Cane to instill ABs culture and slowly build from there.
For all the anti razor stuff around sotutu and akira not being picked but Wallace did they did show that they knew the qualities they were looking for (not just playing wise ...hes a future captain I suspect).
I would have liked to see Love get a run but given the 9 months to the next test I think they are drawing a lined under this seasons team and see who develops in super.Core team with a few changes, happy with that.
Well, that the likes of Sititi and Lakia slotted in pretty seamlessly when their "key" players were injured is a credit to Robertson and co. I guess.
But if they are waiting to see who develops in Super Rugby next year, then you have to ask what they were actually doing this year...
@Victor-Meldrew learning from the old heads what's required from a test coach?
