All Blacks 2024

Bovidae

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:

You could tell Goldie was biting his tongue a lot whilst having to listen to Bates and Ta'avao's waffle. Don't get the hate for Wilson myself, think he's not bad.

He's easily the best of that lot. Bates is terrible and Sky seem to think giving the no.1 cheerleader (Kirwan) overseas trips is a good thing. I watched more of the buildup than I usually would and it confirmed that Cruden needs to be used more.

canefan

@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:

Not to mention watching a coach take over the so called poisoned chalice of the Blues and win a title in his first year with grinding direct rugby that would convert to test rugby

There has to be a happy medium. It feels like we are far too loose, and take big risks at the moment. When we play direct, when we don't try to push the passes at every opportunity, we are very effective. We should still be able to express ourselves, but right now we need to spend more time rolling up the sleeves and doing the hard work of getting over the gain line and shifting bodies at the breakdown

brodean

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

Laurie Mains before he finally got over his anti Auckland bias

His long term captain was an Aucklander even when his bestie returned from injury.

His undroppable player (R Brooke) was an Aucklander.

He let his captain convince him to select an unwanted Zinny from Auckland and he went on to be a great.

More than half of the AB starting XV in the final match of 1992 were Aucklanders.

I don't think his bias was as big as you're making out it to be.

Sotutu is Razor's Zinny but it's looking like neither Sotutu or Razor will have any redemption story for the current debacle.

brodean

@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:

I think what we’ve seen is what would happen if any of us had the chance to select and coach the ABs. We’ve got this idea in our head of a style of play and what we think will work, and then very quickly - how does the Mike Tyson quote go? - everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition. The interesting thing is, we’ve actually discovered some dimensions to our power game (Sititi, Aumua, Paddy to an extent… Ardie for about 3 mins every game). So, what he needs to do, is quickly sort out how to diversify the approach so we don’t just rely on out-highlights reeling the opposition. Don’t forget, we’ve been there or there abouts with the best teams in the world this year. Is it good enough yet? No. Is there the potential to grow consistently into the best team in the world? In the basis of some of the young players coming through, I would say yes. But Razor’s got some hard/brave calls to make in 2025.

I'm not sure about potential. France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.

They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.

They're winning games against us with young players coming through.

nzzp

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:

Don't get the hate for Wilson myself, think he's not bad.

Screams company man who'll say what he's told to. Legend as a player, but seriously limited as a commentator or analyst. Struck me as very sycophantic.

Darth Sader

@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:

@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:

I think what we’ve seen is what would happen if any of us had the chance to select and coach the ABs. We’ve got this idea in our head of a style of play and what we think will work, and then very quickly - how does the Mike Tyson quote go? - everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition. The interesting thing is, we’ve actually discovered some dimensions to our power game (Sititi, Aumua, Paddy to an extent… Ardie for about 3 mins every game). So, what he needs to do, is quickly sort out how to diversify the approach so we don’t just rely on out-highlights reeling the opposition. Don’t forget, we’ve been there or there abouts with the best teams in the world this year. Is it good enough yet? No. Is there the potential to grow consistently into the best team in the world? In the basis of some of the young players coming through, I would say yes. But Razor’s got some hard/brave calls to make in 2025.

I'm not sure about potential. France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.

They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.

They're winning games against us with young players coming through.

That’s a fair call. I guess it comes down to how much headroom for improvement you think we have. I think we can get 10-15% better, easily.

nzzp

MN5

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:

I can’t believe how well Mitchell did for all the scorn he got as a coach

NTA

Landers92

@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks 2024:

knee jerk reaction for the 2025 season - fowards generally not too bad this year..... backs.... hard to pencil anyone in outside of 9

Ethan de Groot / Williams ----- pen them in.

Codie Taylor / Aumua ------ pen them in

Tyrel Lomax / Fletcher Newell --------------- pen them in

Scott Barrett --- Shadow of the player he was last two years - captaincy not suiting him?

Patrick Tuipulotu - probably his best season in black - Pen him in
(LOCKING pleasingly we have good competition in the locking department so pick on form)

Wallace Sititi - PEN HIM IN probably 8 --- ridiculous we needed an injury to see him selected

Sam Cane - warrior -- thanks for the service -- position available ffs please pick on form. (Lakai possibly leading contender)

Ardie Savea - passed his use by date - needs to earn selection

Cam Roigard -- I'd pen him in but Ratima and Hotham are not bad so would select on form.

Beauden Barrett at least 3 years passed his used by date
10 Damian McKenzie -- a better option than BB but like BBs dinky kicks.. Dmac can go sideways headless chicken a bit too much - POSITION OPEN - we need to be brave and select on form

Caleb Clarke - his best season and only outside back Id keep on form

Anton Lienert-Brown . Jordie / good D zero creativity - position open

Rieko Ioane -- Good D zero creativity - position open

Mark Tele’a / Reece -- see yas we need youth and speed

Will Jordan -- try scoring machine but I am not convinced -- select position on form and ffs choose a specialist 15 please

Unfortunately we have some how got to the point that players retain the jersey far too easily - selections should be ruthlessly earned.

rant over -- see you all in 2025

Pretty bang on but I’d swap Tosi in for Newell and Vaa’i in for Tuipolotu. Tuipolotu has proven he’s better suited to coming off the bench and Vaa’i has been one of the top players for the ABs this year.

African Monkey

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:

I can’t believe how well Mitchell did for all the scorn he got as a coach

I didn't mind him. Again, at least he made big decisions (right or wrong). Some benefitted the team going forward too. We played some great rugby under him in 2003.

People focused on the negative side of his reign, but there were a lot of positives too.

Nepia

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:

I can’t believe how well Mitchell did for all the scorn he got as a coach

He had Henry's game plan and players for the mostly successful 2003 until he told the forwards not to ruck.

@African-Monkey The only positives were the above gameplan. If I was ever going to give up on rugby it would have been when that bald headed twat was in charge.

MN5

@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:

I can’t believe how well Mitchell did for all the scorn he got as a coach

I didn't mind him. Again, at least he made big decisions (right or wrong). Some benefitted the team going forward too. We played some great rugby under him in 2003.

People focused on the negative side of his reign, but there were a lot of positives too.

Well yeah, he dropped one of my favourite ever players too and in hindsight it was the right decision.

Demonised for doing what we all want Razor to do. It’s a tough gig being an AB coach

nzzp

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:

Well yeah, he dropped one of my favourite ever players too and in hindsight it was the right decision.

If you mean Cullen I'll fight you

canefan

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:

Well yeah, he dropped one of my favourite ever players too and in hindsight it was the right decision.

If you mean Cullen I'll fight you

Not if I get there first

MN5

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:

Well yeah, he dropped one of my favourite ever players too and in hindsight it was the right decision.

If you mean Cullen I'll fight you

Yes I do….

Cullen had lost that edge by 2003. Just not QUITE as explosive and quick and able to get out of trouble like he could in the past. SO many NZ outside backs go through that at a relatively young age.

Whether Cullen at 70-80% was better than MacDonald or Ben Atiga is up for debate.

But Mitchell got rid of what he considered a player not quite up to it.

…..and again, this was one of my favourite players ever.

…..and everyone nowadays has a go at Razor for not dropping Barrett.

canefan

Cullen was diminished. But he was still one of the top couple of 15s in SR that year. It wasn't just the dropping. He went out of his way to try and humiliate him. Need I remind you how he sat in front of a press conference and blagged on about how CC didn't hold the ball right.

BB at 10 is a busted flush.

MN5

@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:

Cullen was diminished. But he was still one of the top couple of 15s in SR that year. It wasn't just the dropping. He went out of his way to try and humiliate him. Need I remind you how he sat in front of a press conference and blagged on about how CC didn't hold the ball right

I might have missed all the little details……and yes he might have been a dick about it…..

But would people have been so fair if Cullen had stayed on and been as maligned as BB has been ?

The point I’m making is that Mitchell did what everyone is whinging that Razor hasn’t done.

Bones

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:

Cullen was diminished. But he was still one of the top couple of 15s in SR that year. It wasn't just the dropping. He went out of his way to try and humiliate him. Need I remind you how he sat in front of a press conference and blagged on about how CC didn't hold the ball right

I might have missed all the little details……and yes he might have been a dick about it…..

But would people have been so fair if Cullen had stayed on and been as maligned as BB has been ?

The point I’m making is that Mitchell did what everyone is whinging that Razor hasn’t done.

And you're missing the point that BB is far from as effective as Cullen was when he was dropped.

MN5

@Bones said in All Blacks 2024:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:

Cullen was diminished. But he was still one of the top couple of 15s in SR that year. It wasn't just the dropping. He went out of his way to try and humiliate him. Need I remind you how he sat in front of a press conference and blagged on about how CC didn't hold the ball right

I might have missed all the little details……and yes he might have been a dick about it…..

But would people have been so fair if Cullen had stayed on and been as maligned as BB has been ?

The point I’m making is that Mitchell did what everyone is whinging that Razor hasn’t done.

And you're missing the point that BB is far from as effective as Cullen was when he was dropped.

Well in 2024 yeah, maybe not so much a few years back.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks 2024