All Blacks 2024
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@WillieTheWaiter said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
reeks seems to have one job with AB's which is crash ball. He just aint that big ball carrier type though.
He also has poor hands - especially with short balls close to the defensive line
So what do they do - constantly have him run onto short balls close to the line
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
So what do they do - constantly have him run onto short balls close to the line
Basically the same as last year too. JB was making slightly better decisions last year and the opposition defence has had even more time to counter it. Here's an article from early in the 2023 season
rugbypass.com/news/jordie-barrett-analysis/ -
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
First Five, may need to tweak the game plan to factor that neither BB or DMac are great playmakers. Boks have played great rugby with Pollard at 10, so food for thought as to whether you need a running first five. Hard to see how Jacomb makes inroads sitting behind DMac, Plummer is overseas, the Canes and Crusaders 10s don’t seem to be there. Not going to pretend like I’m not a bit biased, but it Millar has a solid season, when the music stops he might be the last one standing.
https://media.tenor.com/UqKMm5scSZgAAAAM/elissa-slater-spit-take.gif
Yeah. Millar is definitely the solution.
Do you watch any Chiefs games? Dmac is magic at putting others into space. Our poor attack systems don't take advantage of his capabilities.
I’m meaning as a pure squad option, he might be the beneficiary as last man standing. What Millar could possibly provide though, is game management and elite punting, which is where both Barrett and DMac have struggled this year.
McKenzie is a moments player, and he might well be the best we have got, but we won’t win a World Cup with him at 10. He is too hit and miss to get away with in tournament play IMO. He has thrived in the impact roll as has Barrett. Neither really grasped that starting 10 role, McKenzie was dropped after flattering to deceive in SA and Bledisloe One. The idea that he solves our issues is the Sotutu argument all over again.
The guy who isn’t playing isn’t always a better solution, sometimes the issue is there is no solution, and to me it is abundantly clear that we don’t have a 10 capable of running a game on his own, so there are three options.
A) Wait for the next guy to come along/pray Mo’unga finds a new gear
B) Continue with the inconsistency Barrett and DMac provide
C) Alter the gameplan to remove the burden from the 10. With Roigard at 9, and Barrett at 12 I think this is a legitimate option. France play a lot off Dupont with a limited 10 outside him, and the Boks have succeeded with a pack going well and Pollard running the basics. It is possible I think, that with everything run well around him, should he continue to take steps forward Millar, or a Cashmore or another first five in that mould could be a stop gap. With them begging Mo’unga back, and taking Jacomb with the NZ XV they clearly aren’t going to go this way though I don’t think.
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one thing i feel ive noticed and i was never a back so might be wrong but we seem to be very flat footed, even if RI is just doing crash ball...surely its a lot harder if hes stationary or at most trotting....other teams do seem to attack with more speed
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
one thing i feel ive noticed and i was never a back so might be wrong but we seem to be very flat footed, even if RI is just doing crash ball...surely its a lot harder if hes stationary or at most trotting....other teams do seem to attack with more speed
It's all part of the genius plan. See, attacking rugby is the ABs DNA, and taking the ball, flat at the line against hard rushing defence is the best way to show the kiwi way and our skill advantages. Even better, if you are standing still when you receive the ball, and there is no deception, which really helps showcasing the awesome kiwi-superiority-skill all-DNA-blacks way (TM). You've got to go wide at every opportunity too, look at the 2015 RWC, Wayne Smith says, and he should know. Finally, and obviously, the best players to show this great kiwi way of playing are those playing in overseas comps, where they are not at all involved in teams that use deception, depth, and boring non DNA grinding/technical rugby.
Fucking genius!
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
one thing i feel ive noticed and i was never a back so might be wrong but we seem to be very flat footed, even if RI is just doing crash ball...surely its a lot harder if hes stationary or at most trotting....other teams do seem to attack with more speed
It's all part of the genius plan. See, attacking rugby is the ABs DNA, and taking the ball, flat at the line against hard rushing defence is the best way to show the kiwi way and our skill advantages. Even better, if you are standing still when you receive the ball, and there is no deception, which really helps showcasing the awesome kiwi-superiority-skill all-DNA-blacks way (TM). You've got to go wide at every opportunity too, look at the 2015 RWC, Wayne Smith says, and he should know. Finally, and obviously, the best players to show this great kiwi way of playing are those playing in overseas comps, where they are not at all involved in teams that use deception, depth, and boring non DNA grinding/technical rugby.
Fucking genius!
@Machpants and everyone of them seems to not only get the ball standing still...but the do a little two step on the spot before getting folded
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@Machpants and everyone of them seems to not only get the ball standing still...but the do a little two step on the spot before getting folded
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants and everyone of them seems to not only get the ball standing still...but the do a little two step on the spot before getting folded
After the Irish had the wood over us, last few years, we also introduced some river dance to our DNA
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Not have a gameplan that not only asks him to crash ball, but to receive passes at the same time as he gets tackled. Fastest bloke on the team and that's the genius level coaching maximising player's strengths.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Not have a gameplan that not only asks him to crash ball, but to receive passes at the same time as he gets tackled. Fastest bloke on the team and that's the genius level coaching maximising player's strengths.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
i feel like the NZ rugby media is trying to gaslight me
Paul Cully did a World XV article today, and put the "consistently excellent" Ardie Savea in it. At openside. The fuck?
He also added Wallace Sititi, which in itself is not a terrible call, but at #8?Apparently Rob Valetini doesn't exist aye Paul?
i had a discussion with someone this week who insisted "everyone" knows BB has been consistently excellent this year.....i feel like im going insane
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
i feel like the NZ rugby media is trying to gaslight me
Paul Cully did a World XV article today, and put the "consistently excellent" Ardie Savea in it. At openside. The fuck?
He also added Wallace Sititi, which in itself is not a terrible call, but at #8?Apparently Rob Valetini doesn't exist aye Paul?
i had a discussion with someone this week who insisted "everyone" knows BB has been consistently excellent this year.....i feel like im going insane
further to this, i just saw a post on the International rugby facebook group, someone claiming razor had done well and was building for the future....and a series of replies talking about a young squad and great building and i feel like im going insane!
why not go for youth this year...why wait for next year? people seemto think it makes perfect sense....
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Also Jordie Barrett the play maker?? with that passing game and that decision making? riiiight
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
Also Jordie Barrett the play maker?? with that passing game and that decision making? riiiight
Jordie has been underwhelming all year, I said it at the end of the Canes season. Don’t get me wrong Jordie has his moments but he’s not a playmaker and his decision making is horrible. He also has a long history of fluffing shit up when the pressure comes on.
I feel like Razor has the Barrett’s permanently penciled into his 15 and there’s no changing his mind, especially considering one of them is the captain. I’m happy to throw it out there, I’ don’t think any of them should be in our starting side atm and there’s a couple more names in that boat as well.
What could have been if we actually fking picked on form.
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
I think what we’ve seen is what would happen if any of us had the chance to select and coach the ABs. We’ve got this idea in our head of a style of play and what we think will work, and then very quickly - how does the Mike Tyson quote go? - everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face. Under Razor the ABs are trying to play a skills-based game to out manoeuvre their opposition. The interesting thing is, we’ve actually discovered some dimensions to our power game (Sititi, Aumua, Paddy to an extent… Ardie for about 3 mins every game). So, what he needs to do, is quickly sort out how to diversify the approach so we don’t just rely on out-highlights reeling the opposition. Don’t forget, we’ve been there or there abouts with the best teams in the world this year. Is it good enough yet? No. Is there the potential to grow consistently into the best team in the world? In the basis of some of the young players coming through, I would say yes. But Razor’s got some hard/brave calls to make in 2025.
I'm not sure about potential. France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
They're winning games against us with young players coming through.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
So good they barely scrape past us ...
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
So good they barely scrape past us ...
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
So good they barely scrape past us ...
France have beat us comfortably the previous two times. They had a bunch of key players out in the game we just played and I don't think they got our of third gear.
South Africa beat us with their A team and their B team.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
Also Jordie Barrett the play maker?? with that passing game and that decision making? riiiight
Jordie has been underwhelming all year, I said it at the end of the Canes season. Don’t get me wrong Jordie has his moments but he’s not a playmaker and his decision making is horrible. He also has a long history of fluffing shit up when the pressure comes on.
I feel like Razor has the Barrett’s permanently penciled into his 15 and there’s no changing his mind, especially considering one of them is the captain. I’m happy to throw it out there, I’ don’t think any of them should be in our starting side atm and there’s a couple more names in that boat as well.
What could have been if we actually fking picked on form.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
Also Jordie Barrett the play maker?? with that passing game and that decision making? riiiight
Jordie has been underwhelming all year, I said it at the end of the Canes season. Don’t get me wrong Jordie has his moments but he’s not a playmaker and his decision making is horrible. He also has a long history of fluffing shit up when the pressure comes on.
I feel like Razor has the Barrett’s permanently penciled into his 15 and there’s no changing his mind, especially considering one of them is the captain. I’m happy to throw it out there, I’ don’t think any of them should be in our starting side atm and there’s a couple more names in that boat as well.
What could have been if we actually fking picked on form.
Jordie is also not that great at what he’s supposedly really good at ( carting the ball up )
Other international midfielders do it far better.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
Also Jordie Barrett the play maker?? with that passing game and that decision making? riiiight
Jordie has been underwhelming all year, I said it at the end of the Canes season. Don’t get me wrong Jordie has his moments but he’s not a playmaker and his decision making is horrible. He also has a long history of fluffing shit up when the pressure comes on.
I feel like Razor has the Barrett’s permanently penciled into his 15 and there’s no changing his mind, especially considering one of them is the captain. I’m happy to throw it out there, I’ don’t think any of them should be in our starting side atm and there’s a couple more names in that boat as well.
What could have been if we actually fking picked on form.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
I feel like Razor has the Barrett’s permanently penciled into his 15 and there’s no changing his mind, especially considering one of them is the captain. I’m happy to throw it out there, I’ don’t think any of them should be in our starting side atm and there’s a couple more names in that boat as well.
He won't even sub Beaudy off the field.
We only won at Twickenham because Beauden was forced off of the field with a HIA - forcing Telea back on the field who then scored the match winning try (never mind Telea was subbed off whilst having his best test in 2024....)
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
So good they barely scrape past us ...
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
So good they barely scrape past us ...
Scary to think what we could have done if we'd picked the best players and had a decent test match suitable gameplan
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
Also Jordie Barrett the play maker?? with that passing game and that decision making? riiiight
Jordie has been underwhelming all year, I said it at the end of the Canes season. Don’t get me wrong Jordie has his moments but he’s not a playmaker and his decision making is horrible. He also has a long history of fluffing shit up when the pressure comes on.
I feel like Razor has the Barrett’s permanently penciled into his 15 and there’s no changing his mind, especially considering one of them is the captain. I’m happy to throw it out there, I’ don’t think any of them should be in our starting side atm and there’s a couple more names in that boat as well.
What could have been if we actually fking picked on form.
Jordie is also not that great at what he’s supposedly really good at ( carting the ball up )
Other international midfielders do it far better.
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
Also Jordie Barrett the play maker?? with that passing game and that decision making? riiiight
Jordie has been underwhelming all year, I said it at the end of the Canes season. Don’t get me wrong Jordie has his moments but he’s not a playmaker and his decision making is horrible. He also has a long history of fluffing shit up when the pressure comes on.
I feel like Razor has the Barrett’s permanently penciled into his 15 and there’s no changing his mind, especially considering one of them is the captain. I’m happy to throw it out there, I’ don’t think any of them should be in our starting side atm and there’s a couple more names in that boat as well.
What could have been if we actually fking picked on form.
Jordie is also not that great at what he’s supposedly really good at ( carting the ball up )
Other international midfielders do it far better.
Definitely had a down year. I'm not sure it will get better with him taking his OE
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@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
I am not sure about RI getting more space in Super rugby. That's not how the Blues used their midfield. I recall asking Blue's fans during the season if they were happy with RI's form, because I had noticed him being rather inconspicuous. The gist of the replies suggested he was doing the tight stuff.
Also, from memory, RI didn't score a try during the Super Season. That too would suggest he wasn't playing in space.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
So good they barely scrape past us ...
France have beat us comfortably the previous two times. They had a bunch of key players out in the game we just played and I don't think they got our of third gear.
South Africa beat us with their A team and their B team.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
So good they barely scrape past us ...
France have beat us comfortably the previous two times. They had a bunch of key players out in the game we just played and I don't think they got our of third gear.
South Africa beat us with their A team and their B team.
It really is a trend to talk up anyone but NZ.
We had guys out of all those games too.
So what?
They played with their best available and barely scraped past us. It fact France were outplayed for most of the game against us according to the stats. But it is cool to run the ABs down.
It's like listening to early 2000s Radio Sport with Willie Lose on talkback.
Fair point: we expect more from the ABs and they should be performing better given the sum of their parts.
But it just shits me that we can't recognise when we're doing good, and over estimate how well opposition are going.
From what I've read we lost 9 of our tests this year (all 3 v Eng, Ireland, Bled I, plus the four we did actually lose) and probably also lost the other 5 because, well just because we're not 2015 level ...
The only REAL blot was Arg I. And to me that was a failure of expectation. When we got ahead and on top of them we got overexcited and made lazy errors. I said at the time we were 30 pints better than them (and we were), we just let them (kind of insisted they) score a few more than us.
Again, Razor has not YET produced the level of performance we expect, but it's not mid-Fozzie era ineffectuality (not sure if that's a word ... it is now
).I've seen development in our patterns.
I'd like to see:
- DMac at 10 and talk of Mo'unga discontinued
- Revitalised looseforwards
- a reassessment of the midfield. I think the personnel are OK, but a good look at their roles would be handy
- a good look at the back 3, especially looking at 2 guys to join Caleb. Some of the current personnel are good, but need a rocket.
- overall a revitalising, whether that is youth, or just a kick in the arse I don't care.
But back to my original point seeing how I digressed, these seemingly unbeatable behemoths of South Africa, France (and a month ago Ireland and England) are a myth. They're good, but we can beat them as much as they can beat us.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
I am not sure about RI getting more space in Super rugby. That's not how the Blues used their midfield. I recall asking Blue's fans during the season if they were happy with RI's form, because I had noticed him being rather inconspicuous. The gist of the replies suggested he was doing the tight stuff.
Also, from memory, RI didn't score a try during the Super Season. That too would suggest he wasn't playing in space.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
I am not sure about RI getting more space in Super rugby. That's not how the Blues used their midfield. I recall asking Blue's fans during the season if they were happy with RI's form, because I had noticed him being rather inconspicuous. The gist of the replies suggested he was doing the tight stuff.
Also, from memory, RI didn't score a try during the Super Season. That too would suggest he wasn't playing in space.
I can't be bothered doing this properly, but the Blues did give him more space.
Part of it is that he can run off their ball carriers, but another is that they used his speed to come behind the ruck when they change direction, and he would often get that ball as the first receiver much in the same way that Jordan does for the Crusaders.
He was also at first receiver a bit in their pattern as the front runner receiving a wide pass from Christier with Plummer as the behind runner, so if he could get in space he would hold it or pass wide, but could also pass back to Plummer who was on the loop.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
I am not sure about RI getting more space in Super rugby. That's not how the Blues used their midfield. I recall asking Blue's fans during the season if they were happy with RI's form, because I had noticed him being rather inconspicuous. The gist of the replies suggested he was doing the tight stuff.
Also, from memory, RI didn't score a try during the Super Season. That too would suggest he wasn't playing in space.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Darth-Sader said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby you say 'let's see what Super Rugby brings'
A number of guys carved up in Super Rugby this year and were barely given an opportunity.
Lam
Love
ProctorEtc etc
And the irony is - for the most part - the guys who were given a shot in black on the back of Super rugby form looked good.
Meanwhile these established guys rack up test after test with mediocrity (Havili, ALB, Rieko, Jacobson etc).
Havili and ALB have had their time. Absolutely need to introduce new options there. Neither offers enough. Reiko still has something in him, but how do we unlock it consistently?
Give him some time and space for one thing. Plummer seemed to do it during Super. Of course the Blues backs stood a little deeper
I am not sure about RI getting more space in Super rugby. That's not how the Blues used their midfield. I recall asking Blue's fans during the season if they were happy with RI's form, because I had noticed him being rather inconspicuous. The gist of the replies suggested he was doing the tight stuff.
Also, from memory, RI didn't score a try during the Super Season. That too would suggest he wasn't playing in space.
I thought AJ Lam was better at 13 this year than Rieko for the Blues. Rieko did a serviceable job but had a bad concussion in the middle of the season and never got out of 3rd gear in terms of form after that.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
France and South Africa have some serious depth and high calibre players.
They're tough, smart and they use their bench well. I think their playmakers/game managers are better than ours.
So good they barely scrape past us ...
France have beat us comfortably the previous two times. They had a bunch of key players out in the game we just played and I don't think they got our of third gear.
South Africa beat us with their A team and their B team.
It really is a trend to talk up anyone but NZ.
We had guys out of all those games too.
So what?
They played with their best available and barely scraped past us. It fact France were outplayed for most of the game against us according to the stats. But it is cool to run the ABs down.
It's like listening to early 2000s Radio Sport with Willie Lose on talkback.
Fair point: we expect more from the ABs and they should be performing better given the sum of their parts.
But it just shits me that we can't recognise when we're doing good, and over estimate how well opposition are going.
From what I've read we lost 9 of our tests this year (all 3 v Eng, Ireland, Bled I, plus the four we did actually lose) and probably also lost the other 5 because, well just because we're not 2015 level ...
The only REAL blot was Arg I. And to me that was a failure of expectation. When we got ahead and on top of them we got overexcited and made lazy errors. I said at the time we were 30 pints better than them (and we were), we just let them (kind of insisted they) score a few more than us.
Again, Razor has not YET produced the level of performance we expect, but it's not mid-Fozzie era ineffectuality (not sure if that's a word ... it is now
).I've seen development in our patterns.
I'd like to see:
- DMac at 10 and talk of Mo'unga discontinued
- Revitalised looseforwards
- a reassessment of the midfield. I think the personnel are OK, but a good look at their roles would be handy
- a good look at the back 3, especially looking at 2 guys to join Caleb. Some of the current personnel are good, but need a rocket.
- overall a revitalising, whether that is youth, or just a kick in the arse I don't care.
But back to my original point seeing how I digressed, these seemingly unbeatable behemoths of South Africa, France (and a month ago Ireland and England) are a myth. They're good, but we can beat them as much as they can beat us.
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
But back to my original point seeing how I digressed, these seemingly unbeatable behemoths of South Africa, France (and a month ago Ireland and England) are a myth. They're good, but we can beat them as much as they can beat us.
We haven't beaten France since 2018. In the last two years we've won 1 our of 5 tests against South Africa.
How is that beating them just as much as they beat us?
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Context matters a bit too though.
Since the 2019 world cup we've played the South Africans 8 times in anger (I'm not counting the RWC warm up exhibition game)
And while the ledger reads 3-5 the points difference is zero (or maybe 1). And we've played them once at home, 4 times in south africa and 3 neutral. That's pretty good against this so called generational SA team.France we haven't played outside France since 2018. And I'll let you guess when the last time they beat us prior to that 2021 win.
We're very close to the equal of any side at the moment but we're just not quite getting over the line. There isn't a gulf to cross.
I would expect us to go close to 5-0 getting to play France and SA in NZ next year.
