All Blacks 2024
-
It's been a season marred by awful selections, a game plan that hasn't worked in at least 10 years, strong Crusader bias (type of thing you'd see in amateur teams not professional), anti-Blues bias despite them being the best team in Super, form players from other franchises like the Canes barely getting a look in, and now this wanking on about selecting overseas players continues. And the worst part about the overseas players request is that there is not a single player playing outside of NZ that is actually better than what we have here already. And worse still, it's centered around a player that could never properly make the step up to test footy after 60 odd caps!
At this stage I would be fine if NZR got rid of Razor over the summer and went out to market again to look for a coach with international experience that can get the best out of our players. It's very clear we do have the cattle to take back the No.1 spot, but we don't have the coaches.
@No-Quarter I pretty much agree with yr sentiments. I was always a bit dubious about Robertson, given his narrow experience but you couldn't argue he fully deserved a chance.
Where I don't back you up is on the notion of potentially binning him after one season. To me that smacks of football managers in the EPL and I wouldn't want NZR to go down that route. He did have a tough set of opponents. The Argie loss apart results have been broadly what I expected. It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me. It seems it's all about the vibe. However, I am firmly in favour of giving him the chance to learn from is mistakes. If he doesn't then it's time to roll out Mme Guillotine this time next year.
-
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I do find it amusing, highlighted by Parsons and Hall on the ARP, that some commentators mention that the record could have been better but for the close loses, and fail to acknowledge the close wins (Eng x 3, Aust) that could have went the other way. Fine margins.
Glass half full guys
Mind you, everyone's gonna stand up for him when they made him out to be the best thing since sliced bread during the Fozzie reign.
Fozzie just had to breathe and the media and public (especially Cantabs) were out to get him.
Harsh generalisation. I welcomed him, as did a number of others. But he has not lived up to his promise so far, and deserves to be put on notice with a no holds barred end of season performance review
Yeah and guys like yourself have called him out on his shortcomings, unlike a lot of his followers who just defend everything he does because it's him.
Ah yes, the Port Hills Massive
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I do find it amusing, highlighted by Parsons and Hall on the ARP, that some commentators mention that the record could have been better but for the close loses, and fail to acknowledge the close wins (Eng x 3, Aust) that could have went the other way. Fine margins.
Glass half full guys
Mind you, everyone's gonna stand up for him when they made him out to be the best thing since sliced bread during the Fozzie reign.
Fozzie just had to breathe and the media and public (especially Cantabs) were out to get him.
Harsh generalisation. I welcomed him, as did a number of others. But he has not lived up to his promise so far, and deserves to be put on notice with a no holds barred end of season performance review
Yeah and guys like yourself have called him out on his shortcomings, unlike a lot of his followers who just defend everything he does because it's him.
Ah yes, the
Port HillsSumner Rugby Club MassiveFIFY
-
@No-Quarter I pretty much agree with yr sentiments. I was always a bit dubious about Robertson, given his narrow experience but you couldn't argue he fully deserved a chance.
Where I don't back you up is on the notion of potentially binning him after one season. To me that smacks of football managers in the EPL and I wouldn't want NZR to go down that route. He did have a tough set of opponents. The Argie loss apart results have been broadly what I expected. It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me. It seems it's all about the vibe. However, I am firmly in favour of giving him the chance to learn from is mistakes. If he doesn't then it's time to roll out Mme Guillotine this time next year.
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
-
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I do find it amusing, highlighted by Parsons and Hall on the ARP, that some commentators mention that the record could have been better but for the close loses, and fail to acknowledge the close wins (Eng x 3, Aust) that could have went the other way. Fine margins.
Glass half full guys
Mind you, everyone's gonna stand up for him when they made him out to be the best thing since sliced bread during the Fozzie reign.
Fozzie just had to breathe and the media and public (especially Cantabs) were out to get him.
Harsh generalisation. I welcomed him, as did a number of others. But he has not lived up to his promise so far, and deserves to be put on notice with a no holds barred end of season performance review
Yeah and guys like yourself have called him out on his shortcomings, unlike a lot of his followers who just defend everything he does because it's him.
Ah yes, the
Port HillsSumner Rugby Club MassiveFIFY
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I do find it amusing, highlighted by Parsons and Hall on the ARP, that some commentators mention that the record could have been better but for the close loses, and fail to acknowledge the close wins (Eng x 3, Aust) that could have went the other way. Fine margins.
Glass half full guys
Mind you, everyone's gonna stand up for him when they made him out to be the best thing since sliced bread during the Fozzie reign.
Fozzie just had to breathe and the media and public (especially Cantabs) were out to get him.
Harsh generalisation. I welcomed him, as did a number of others. But he has not lived up to his promise so far, and deserves to be put on notice with a no holds barred end of season performance review
Yeah and guys like yourself have called him out on his shortcomings, unlike a lot of his followers who just defend everything he does because it's him.
Ah yes, the
Port HillsSumner Rugby Club MassiveFIFY
It did occur to me to change it. But it's more of a red n black army thing I guess? Thanks for the edit
-
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
His reputation for being a players' coach, and an innovator have not been apparent. Yet. Watched Scott Hansen on Aotearoa Rugby Pod last night. Boy he spouts some shit when you actually listen. It's all layers, and shit
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I do find it amusing, highlighted by Parsons and Hall on the ARP, that some commentators mention that the record could have been better but for the close loses, and fail to acknowledge the close wins (Eng x 3, Aust) that could have went the other way. Fine margins.
Glass half full guys
Mind you, everyone's gonna stand up for him when they made him out to be the best thing since sliced bread during the Fozzie reign.
Fozzie just had to breathe and the media and public (especially Cantabs) were out to get him.
Harsh generalisation. I welcomed him, as did a number of others. But he has not lived up to his promise so far, and deserves to be put on notice with a no holds barred end of season performance review
Yeah and guys like yourself have called him out on his shortcomings, unlike a lot of his followers who just defend everything he does because it's him.
Ah yes, the
Port HillsSumner Rugby Club MassiveFIFY
It did occur to me to change it. But it's more of a red n black army thing I guess? Thanks for the edit
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I do find it amusing, highlighted by Parsons and Hall on the ARP, that some commentators mention that the record could have been better but for the close loses, and fail to acknowledge the close wins (Eng x 3, Aust) that could have went the other way. Fine margins.
Glass half full guys
Mind you, everyone's gonna stand up for him when they made him out to be the best thing since sliced bread during the Fozzie reign.
Fozzie just had to breathe and the media and public (especially Cantabs) were out to get him.
Harsh generalisation. I welcomed him, as did a number of others. But he has not lived up to his promise so far, and deserves to be put on notice with a no holds barred end of season performance review
Yeah and guys like yourself have called him out on his shortcomings, unlike a lot of his followers who just defend everything he does because it's him.
Ah yes, the
Port HillsSumner Rugby Club MassiveFIFY
It did occur to me to change it. But it's more of a red n black army thing I guess? Thanks for the edit
It always made me chuckle when his fluffers pointed to his success with the Sumner U13's as proof of his international coaching credentials....
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
His reputation for being a players' coach, and an innovator have not been apparent. Yet. Watched Scott Hansen on Aotearoa Rugby Pod last night. Boy he spouts some shit when you actually listen. It's all layers, and shit
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
His reputation for being a players' coach, and an innovator have not been apparent. Yet. Watched Scott Hansen on Aotearoa Rugby Pod last night. Boy he spouts some shit when you actually listen. It's all layers, and shit
I hope that off-season he or someone at NZR takes a good long look at things to see what the real problems are, Someone experienced and from outside like Cotter would provide some good honest input and support.
Another year like this one would be a real waste
-
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
His reputation for being a players' coach, and an innovator have not been apparent. Yet. Watched Scott Hansen on Aotearoa Rugby Pod last night. Boy he spouts some shit when you actually listen. It's all layers, and shit
I hope that off-season he or someone at NZR takes a good long look at things to see what the real problems are, Someone experienced and from outside like Cotter would provide some good honest input and support.
Another year like this one would be a real waste
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
His reputation for being a players' coach, and an innovator have not been apparent. Yet. Watched Scott Hansen on Aotearoa Rugby Pod last night. Boy he spouts some shit when you actually listen. It's all layers, and shit
I hope that off-season he or someone at NZR takes a good long look at things to see what the real problems are, Someone experienced and from outside like Cotter would provide some good honest input and support.
Another year like this one would be a real waste
This is key, he hasn't grown the squad, but also hasn't won enough with the experience he kept - worst of both worlds
NZH year review article
-
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
His reputation for being a players' coach, and an innovator have not been apparent. Yet. Watched Scott Hansen on Aotearoa Rugby Pod last night. Boy he spouts some shit when you actually listen. It's all layers, and shit
I hope that off-season he or someone at NZR takes a good long look at things to see what the real problems are, Someone experienced and from outside like Cotter would provide some good honest input and support.
Another year like this one would be a real waste
This is key, he hasn't grown the squad, but also hasn't won enough with the experience he kept - worst of both worlds
NZH year review article
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
His reputation for being a players' coach, and an innovator have not been apparent. Yet. Watched Scott Hansen on Aotearoa Rugby Pod last night. Boy he spouts some shit when you actually listen. It's all layers, and shit
I hope that off-season he or someone at NZR takes a good long look at things to see what the real problems are, Someone experienced and from outside like Cotter would provide some good honest input and support.
Another year like this one would be a real waste
This is key, he hasn't grown the squad, but also hasn't won enough with the experience he kept - worst of both worlds
NZH year review article
10-4 could easily have been 8-6. Livable-with if he'd been clearly developing new players. But he hasn't.
-
This one about Razor himself, interesting, esp how DMac didn't get dropped
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
This one about Razor himself, interesting, esp how DMac didn't get dropped
So Ardie and Sam taking control of the team brought success
TBH, the fact he included Cane and BB after initially thinking they wouldn't be involved actually is a credit in my book - it shows he's not always set in his ways.
TBH it's Gregor Paul though, I don't really trust him as a journalist so not sure how much of this is 100% correct.
-
NZR did the wrong thing with appointing Foster without head coach success - and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
They also did the wrong thing in not sacking Foster based on results.Robertson was a strong candidate with plenty of success under his belt, and his selection for the role was reasonable - that's an improvement on point 1 above. I do hope that they have the balls to improve on point 2 if necessary.
He does deserve a chance, but fuck me the selection of Barrett B at 10 has absolutely done my head in. There was no progress vs England or France or Italy in my eyes; put McKenzie in and there is clear progress vs Ireland, and we sneak home against England.
Oh and pick Sotutu you fuckhead, or do you think Jacobson etc are going to dominate? -
NZR did the wrong thing with appointing Foster without head coach success - and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
They also did the wrong thing in not sacking Foster based on results.Robertson was a strong candidate with plenty of success under his belt, and his selection for the role was reasonable - that's an improvement on point 1 above. I do hope that they have the balls to improve on point 2 if necessary.
He does deserve a chance, but fuck me the selection of Barrett B at 10 has absolutely done my head in. There was no progress vs England or France or Italy in my eyes; put McKenzie in and there is clear progress vs Ireland, and we sneak home against England.
Oh and pick Sotutu you fuckhead, or do you think Jacobson etc are going to dominate?@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
-
My overall feeling is he hasn't grown the squad enough. I hope he is more bold next year. Plus harping on about overseas players is really about putting all his eggs in one basket with Mounga. I want more attention paid to picking younger talent loyal to NZ rugby.
There is a ton of depth that could be developed.
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
-
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
-
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
-
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
and they should have known that after Wayne Smith.
Huh? Smith has head coach success. He was the first Cantab to win Super.
Yeah fair point. Great AB assistant coach, didn't translate to great AB head coach.
TBF, I think he chucked it in too early for us to really know.
What he is poor at is as a CEO, his term in charge of HB was terrible.
True. We know however that Wayne Smiths ABs won 11 out of their first 14. One more than Razor. Interesting that Smith deemed that to be such a failure that he should reapply for his job.
And then NZR fell for a grifter who had no head coach success himself, who gained some success as a head coach in conjunction with a successful Super coach using a successful Blues gameplan until he missed a vital part of it (forwards) in the one match that mattered.
