All Blacks 2024
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Can anyone explain the amazing balance Robertson describes with Cane, Sititi and Savea?
I thought Kaino, Read and McCaw were balanced and this new trio is nothing like that.
Balanced? They were arguably the greatest loosforward trio to play the game. Not sure we have that cattle now ... regardless of "balance".
Unfair comparison.
A better comparison might be the aussies trying to play 2 x 7s and it being shit, even though both their 7s were better players than their other loose forward options.
The initial comparison might be unfair due to player quality, but it's still a fair point re balance. And it's even worse if you look at the whole squad and add DP, LJ, EB, CLW, PL. Basically everyone except Finau is smaller than both Kaino and Read, and none of them are McCaw.@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Can anyone explain the amazing balance Robertson describes with Cane, Sititi and Savea?
I thought Kaino, Read and McCaw were balanced and this new trio is nothing like that.
Balanced? They were arguably the greatest loosforward trio to play the game. Not sure we have that cattle now ... regardless of "balance".
Unfair comparison.
A better comparison might be the aussies trying to play 2 x 7s and it being shit, even though both their 7s were better players than their other loose forward options.
The initial comparison might be unfair due to player quality, but it's still a fair point re balance. And it's even worse if you look at the whole squad and add DP, LJ, EB, CLW, PL. Basically everyone except Finau is smaller than both Kaino and Read, and none of them are McCaw.Yeah, the balance of Kaino, McCaw and Read worked well because each had strengths that complimented each other. Kaino was the enforcer making dominant tackles, McCaw with the extremely (inhumanely in McCaw's case) high work rate being influential on defense and at ruck, and Read excellent ball in hand both close in and wider out. Of course there is overlap in their roles but the players key strengths are what was important.
This year the only way to achieve that balance was having Finau at 6, but he's very young and a complete rookie so throwing him in the deep end was stupid and didn't work. Then we've played Blackadder at 6, meaning we had two 7s and one 8, then we've played Sititi at 6, meaning we have one 7 and two 8s. As well as Sititi has played, having him at 6 upset the balance of the trio and we paid for it, especially during the RC where our loosies were outplayed basically every game.
These problems were obvious as soon as the first squad was announced. One rookie 6, a host of 7s, and two 8s with one a rookie. You replace Blackadder with Akira and Jacobson with Sotutu and we suddenly have a lot more talent and a lot more options.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Can anyone explain the amazing balance Robertson describes with Cane, Sititi and Savea?
I thought Kaino, Read and McCaw were balanced and this new trio is nothing like that.
Balanced? They were arguably the greatest loosforward trio to play the game. Not sure we have that cattle now ... regardless of "balance".
Unfair comparison.
A better comparison might be the aussies trying to play 2 x 7s and it being shit, even though both their 7s were better players than their other loose forward options.
The initial comparison might be unfair due to player quality, but it's still a fair point re balance. And it's even worse if you look at the whole squad and add DP, LJ, EB, CLW, PL. Basically everyone except Finau is smaller than both Kaino and Read, and none of them are McCaw.Yeah, the balance of Kaino, McCaw and Read worked well because each had strengths that complimented each other. Kaino was the enforcer making dominant tackles, McCaw with the extremely (inhumanely in McCaw's case) high work rate being influential on defense and at ruck, and Read excellent ball in hand both close in and wider out. Of course there is overlap in their roles but the players key strengths are what was important.
This year the only way to achieve that balance was having Finau at 6, but he's very young and a complete rookie so throwing him in the deep end was stupid and didn't work. Then we've played Blackadder at 6, meaning we had two 7s and one 8, then we've played Sititi at 6, meaning we have one 7 and two 8s. As well as Sititi has played, having him at 6 upset the balance of the trio and we paid for it, especially during the RC where our loosies were outplayed basically every game.
These problems were obvious as soon as the first squad was announced. One rookie 6, a host of 7s, and two 8s with one a rookie. You replace Blackadder with Akira and Jacobson with Sotutu and we suddenly have a lot more talent and a lot more options.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
This year the only way to achieve that balance was having Finau at 6, but he's very young and a complete rookie so throwing him in the deep end was stupid and didn't work
Yet Sititi did and less experienced than Finau
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Can anyone explain the amazing balance Robertson describes with Cane, Sititi and Savea?
I thought Kaino, Read and McCaw were balanced and this new trio is nothing like that.
Balanced? They were arguably the greatest loosforward trio to play the game. Not sure we have that cattle now ... regardless of "balance".
Unfair comparison.
A better comparison might be the aussies trying to play 2 x 7s and it being shit, even though both their 7s were better players than their other loose forward options.
The initial comparison might be unfair due to player quality, but it's still a fair point re balance. And it's even worse if you look at the whole squad and add DP, LJ, EB, CLW, PL. Basically everyone except Finau is smaller than both Kaino and Read, and none of them are McCaw.Yeah, the balance of Kaino, McCaw and Read worked well because each had strengths that complimented each other. Kaino was the enforcer making dominant tackles, McCaw with the extremely (inhumanely in McCaw's case) high work rate being influential on defense and at ruck, and Read excellent ball in hand both close in and wider out. Of course there is overlap in their roles but the players key strengths are what was important.
This year the only way to achieve that balance was having Finau at 6, but he's very young and a complete rookie so throwing him in the deep end was stupid and didn't work. Then we've played Blackadder at 6, meaning we had two 7s and one 8, then we've played Sititi at 6, meaning we have one 7 and two 8s. As well as Sititi has played, having him at 6 upset the balance of the trio and we paid for it, especially during the RC where our loosies were outplayed basically every game.
These problems were obvious as soon as the first squad was announced. One rookie 6, a host of 7s, and two 8s with one a rookie. You replace Blackadder with Akira and Jacobson with Sotutu and we suddenly have a lot more talent and a lot more options.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Can anyone explain the amazing balance Robertson describes with Cane, Sititi and Savea?
I thought Kaino, Read and McCaw were balanced and this new trio is nothing like that.
Balanced? They were arguably the greatest loosforward trio to play the game. Not sure we have that cattle now ... regardless of "balance".
Unfair comparison.
A better comparison might be the aussies trying to play 2 x 7s and it being shit, even though both their 7s were better players than their other loose forward options.
The initial comparison might be unfair due to player quality, but it's still a fair point re balance. And it's even worse if you look at the whole squad and add DP, LJ, EB, CLW, PL. Basically everyone except Finau is smaller than both Kaino and Read, and none of them are McCaw.Yeah, the balance of Kaino, McCaw and Read worked well because each had strengths that complimented each other. Kaino was the enforcer making dominant tackles, McCaw with the extremely (inhumanely in McCaw's case) high work rate being influential on defense and at ruck, and Read excellent ball in hand both close in and wider out. Of course there is overlap in their roles but the players key strengths are what was important.
This year the only way to achieve that balance was having Finau at 6, but he's very young and a complete rookie so throwing him in the deep end was stupid and didn't work. Then we've played Blackadder at 6, meaning we had two 7s and one 8, then we've played Sititi at 6, meaning we have one 7 and two 8s. As well as Sititi has played, having him at 6 upset the balance of the trio and we paid for it, especially during the RC where our loosies were outplayed basically every game.
These problems were obvious as soon as the first squad was announced. One rookie 6, a host of 7s, and two 8s with one a rookie. You replace Blackadder with Akira and Jacobson with Sotutu and we suddenly have a lot more talent and a lot more options.
I agree with everything except I think classing Savea as an 8 is overly generous. I actually think Sititi's best position might be 7 too.
And Read's lineout ability needs a mention for the balance. -
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
DP is taller and heavier than Read, heavier than Kaino, Sititi is 3kg heavier than Kaino, heavier than Read, Blackadder is the same height and weight as Kaino. Lakai is 110kg the same weight as Kaino.
Savea is really the only outlier, Jacobson and Cane are same weight as McCaw, I don't think you could be further off the mark.
Papali'i is listed as 193cm which I think is pretty close to the mark and Jacobson is a similar height. De Groot is listed as 190cm.
Kaino is listed as 196cm and Read 193cm but I wouldn't be surprised if these figures were the other way round.
Savea is listed as 190cm and Rieko is listed as 189cm but Rieko is clearly taller
Akira is listed as 194cm and Suafoa is listed as 196cm
https://prodcdn.sporty.co.nz/cms/14254/newsarticles/145083_wo.jpg
I'd say a lot of the listing figures seem like BS.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
DP is taller and heavier than Read, heavier than Kaino, Sititi is 3kg heavier than Kaino, heavier than Read, Blackadder is the same height and weight as Kaino. Lakai is 110kg the same weight as Kaino.
Savea is really the only outlier, Jacobson and Cane are same weight as McCaw, I don't think you could be further off the mark.
Papali'i is listed as 193cm which I think is pretty close to the mark and Jacobson is a similar height. De Groot is listed as 190cm.
Kaino is listed as 196cm and Read 193cm but I wouldn't be surprised if these figures were the other way round.
Savea is listed as 190cm and Rieko is listed as 189cm but Rieko is clearly taller
Akira is listed as 194cm and Suafoa is listed as 196cm
https://prodcdn.sporty.co.nz/cms/14254/newsarticles/145083_wo.jpg
I'd say a lot of the listing figures seem like BS.
I’ve taken a photo with Ardie and we are exactly the same height. He is 1.88m not 1.90m
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
DP is taller and heavier than Read, heavier than Kaino, Sititi is 3kg heavier than Kaino, heavier than Read, Blackadder is the same height and weight as Kaino. Lakai is 110kg the same weight as Kaino.
Savea is really the only outlier, Jacobson and Cane are same weight as McCaw, I don't think you could be further off the mark.
Papali'i is listed as 193cm which I think is pretty close to the mark and Jacobson is a similar height. De Groot is listed as 190cm.
Kaino is listed as 196cm and Read 193cm but I wouldn't be surprised if these figures were the other way round.
Savea is listed as 190cm and Rieko is listed as 189cm but Rieko is clearly taller
Akira is listed as 194cm and Suafoa is listed as 196cm
https://prodcdn.sporty.co.nz/cms/14254/newsarticles/145083_wo.jpg
I'd say a lot of the listing figures seem like BS.
I’ve taken a photo with Ardie and we are exactly the same height. He is 1.88m not 1.90m
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
DP is taller and heavier than Read, heavier than Kaino, Sititi is 3kg heavier than Kaino, heavier than Read, Blackadder is the same height and weight as Kaino. Lakai is 110kg the same weight as Kaino.
Savea is really the only outlier, Jacobson and Cane are same weight as McCaw, I don't think you could be further off the mark.
Papali'i is listed as 193cm which I think is pretty close to the mark and Jacobson is a similar height. De Groot is listed as 190cm.
Kaino is listed as 196cm and Read 193cm but I wouldn't be surprised if these figures were the other way round.
Savea is listed as 190cm and Rieko is listed as 189cm but Rieko is clearly taller
Akira is listed as 194cm and Suafoa is listed as 196cm
https://prodcdn.sporty.co.nz/cms/14254/newsarticles/145083_wo.jpg
I'd say a lot of the listing figures seem like BS.
I’ve taken a photo with Ardie and we are exactly the same height. He is 1.88m not 1.90m
Were you doing handstands?
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Long time listener, first time caller
This season hasn’t surprised me at all, I’ve been a part of the local rugby scene in Chch for a number of years….. and have had a few dealings with both Razor and Jase Ryan.
Razor has no interest in building depth past the next world cup, he’s all about his own legacy and wants to win the world cup with NZ and then go and win it with England or someone else. Becoming the first coach to win it with 2 different countries.
Rightly or wrongly, he thinks picking all the old blokes is the way to do it.
Jason Ryan is a bit of a prick and hates Hoskins Sotutu.
Jason is very good at holding grudges. There’s a number of people around the traps down here that have been cut off by for disagreeing with him (or just not giving him the accolades he thinks he deserves).Despite the above, I am still glad we have these guys and not Foster.
@SammyC said in All Blacks 2024:
Long time listener, first time caller
This season hasn’t surprised me at all, I’ve been a part of the local rugby scene in Chch for a number of years….. and have had a few dealings with both Razor and Jase Ryan.
Razor has no interest in building depth past the next world cup, he’s all about his own legacy and wants to win the world cup with NZ and then go and win it with England or someone else. Becoming the first coach to win it with 2 different countries.
Rightly or wrongly, he thinks picking all the old blokes is the way to do it.
Jason Ryan is a bit of a prick and hates Hoskins Sotutu.
Jason is very good at holding grudges. There’s a number of people around the traps down here that have been cut off by for disagreeing with him (or just not giving him the accolades he thinks he deserves).Despite the above, I am still glad we have these guys and not Foster.
Can’t believe this got 17 upvotes. Sounds like an old guy ranting in a pub. Have you got any substance to your claims? Or is “being part of the local club scene” all the proof that’s needed.
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@Billy-Tell it didn't get 17 upvotes in isolation, it got those upvotes because a number of posters have heard similar things. Even people not in those circles can see from the outside there is some very clear bias against certain players, and a real lack of any building of depth which includes pining for overseas players which wouldn't help anyway, but if it did help it would be short term gain for a lot of long term pain. NZR were so stupid to sign Razor for four bloody years, why wouldn't they do 2 years and then review. Idiotic.
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@Billy-Tell it didn't get 17 upvotes in isolation, it got those upvotes because a number of posters have heard similar things. Even people not in those circles can see from the outside there is some very clear bias against certain players, and a real lack of any building of depth which includes pining for overseas players which wouldn't help anyway, but if it did help it would be short term gain for a lot of long term pain. NZR were so stupid to sign Razor for four bloody years, why wouldn't they do 2 years and then review. Idiotic.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
NZR were so stupid to sign Razor for four bloody years, why wouldn't they do 2 years and then review.
probably cos they fucked the review process up the last time too....
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
DP is taller and heavier than Read, heavier than Kaino, Sititi is 3kg heavier than Kaino, heavier than Read, Blackadder is the same height and weight as Kaino. Lakai is 110kg the same weight as Kaino.
Savea is really the only outlier, Jacobson and Cane are same weight as McCaw, I don't think you could be further off the mark.
Papali'i is listed as 193cm which I think is pretty close to the mark and Jacobson is a similar height. De Groot is listed as 190cm.
Kaino is listed as 196cm and Read 193cm but I wouldn't be surprised if these figures were the other way round.
Savea is listed as 190cm and Rieko is listed as 189cm but Rieko is clearly taller
Akira is listed as 194cm and Suafoa is listed as 196cm
https://prodcdn.sporty.co.nz/cms/14254/newsarticles/145083_wo.jpg
I'd say a lot of the listing figures seem like BS.
I’ve taken a photo with Ardie and we are exactly the same height. He is 1.88m not 1.90m
Were you doing handstands?
@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2024:
DP is taller and heavier than Read, heavier than Kaino, Sititi is 3kg heavier than Kaino, heavier than Read, Blackadder is the same height and weight as Kaino. Lakai is 110kg the same weight as Kaino.
Savea is really the only outlier, Jacobson and Cane are same weight as McCaw, I don't think you could be further off the mark.
Papali'i is listed as 193cm which I think is pretty close to the mark and Jacobson is a similar height. De Groot is listed as 190cm.
Kaino is listed as 196cm and Read 193cm but I wouldn't be surprised if these figures were the other way round.
Savea is listed as 190cm and Rieko is listed as 189cm but Rieko is clearly taller
Akira is listed as 194cm and Suafoa is listed as 196cm
https://prodcdn.sporty.co.nz/cms/14254/newsarticles/145083_wo.jpg
I'd say a lot of the listing figures seem like BS.
I’ve taken a photo with Ardie and we are exactly the same height. He is 1.88m not 1.90m
Were you doing handstands?
1.88 looks about the same as 1.90.
That’s what I used to say to chicks on Tinder at any rate
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@Billy-Tell it didn't get 17 upvotes in isolation, it got those upvotes because a number of posters have heard similar things. Even people not in those circles can see from the outside there is some very clear bias against certain players, and a real lack of any building of depth which includes pining for overseas players which wouldn't help anyway, but if it did help it would be short term gain for a lot of long term pain. NZR were so stupid to sign Razor for four bloody years, why wouldn't they do 2 years and then review. Idiotic.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024:
@Billy-Tell it didn't get 17 upvotes in isolation, it got those upvotes because a number of posters have heard similar things. Even people not in those circles can see from the outside there is some very clear bias against certain players, and a real lack of any building of depth which includes pining for overseas players which wouldn't help anyway, but if it did help it would be short term gain for a lot of long term pain. NZR were so stupid to sign Razor for four bloody years, why wouldn't they do 2 years and then review. Idiotic.
Every coach has his admirers and detractors. And every coach has his player favourites. But if you’re going post that he didn’t pick a player because he “hates” him that comes across as mindless gossip unless you’ve a YouTube video of him saying “I hate that player”. Not to mention saying that the coach himself is on some sort of vanity project.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
His reputation for being a players' coach, and an innovator have not been apparent. Yet. Watched Scott Hansen on Aotearoa Rugby Pod last night. Boy he spouts some shit when you actually listen. It's all layers, and shit
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@dogmeat said in All Blacks 2024:
It's more his intransigence and apparent lack of coaching nous that concerns me.
That is what has really surprised me.
Always thought he'd struggle initially (despite his fluffers claiming there was no difference in SR Test coaching) and take a few Tests to come right, but the continuing inconsistency and lack of player development together with his hankering for mediocre overseas players - at the end of the season - has been really unexpected.
His reputation for being a players' coach, and an innovator have not been apparent. Yet. Watched Scott Hansen on Aotearoa Rugby Pod last night. Boy he spouts some shit when you actually listen. It's all layers, and shit
Yeah I saw that as well and was throughly underwhelmed, one of those guys that says a lot of words but doesn't say anything of substence or insight. Also couldn't look at the camera directly when he was talking his eyes kept rolling to look at the ceiling which is a body tell that while thinking/talking the person is trying to access the creative part to of their brain - or in other words lying.
Still his stocks went up as a used car salesman in my mind.
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D Duluth forked this topic on
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here you go you ignorant fluffybunnies, proof you know fuck all
A Savea best player of the year
Best thing that happened to the ABs was getting BB back to 10
oh wait, who played there for the best performance again?Good lolz
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here you go you ignorant fluffybunnies, proof you know fuck all
A Savea best player of the year
Best thing that happened to the ABs was getting BB back to 10
oh wait, who played there for the best performance again?Good lolz
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
here you go you ignorant fluffybunnies, proof you know fuck all
A Savea best player of the year
Best thing that happened to the ABs was getting BB back to 10
oh wait, who played there for the best performance again?Good lolz
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exactly. he is an expert, and we are deluded, know nothing amateurs.
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NZ sports journalism has a few too many precious types who think that they are gifted with a nous beyond the Ken of the common man. As such they find it difficult to admit they were wrong.
So having started of as massive Robertson fluffers they have to remain constant or admit they might not be quite as gifted as they thought.
Clearly that's unconscionable
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here you go you ignorant fluffybunnies, proof you know fuck all
A Savea best player of the year
Best thing that happened to the ABs was getting BB back to 10
oh wait, who played there for the best performance again?Good lolz
@mariner4life thank for your service of reading Bidwell so we don't have to
