All Blacks 2025
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/razors-conservatism-is-in-danger-of-halting-new-zealands-progress/
Good to see Razor is a big fan of Zoolander
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:
Good to see Razor is a big fan of Zoolander
Looks more to me like Razor impersonating Popeye impersonating Zoolander..
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@Darren said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Hoping France bring a decent squad to NZ in July.
I hope they do send an under strength team and we pummel them.
But it's going to be embarrassing if we do lose.
France's depth is the biggest in the world, even bigger than South Africa's, IMO. If Dupont doesn't travel, his potential substitutes are all a class above most of the halfbacks in the NH, with the notable exception of Gibson-Parkes (Le Garrec, Serin, Couilloud). Where France's depth is the most impressive is in the loose forwards. There is a bunch of young, exciting players, who are or will probably be better than the current ones (Ollivon - Cros - Alldritt) : Castro-Ferreira, Gazotti, Matiu, Jegou, Boudehent are certainly going to form the French back row for the next RWC. The same could be written about many positions. The team which will play in NZ next July will be a team of no names but it will be stronger than expected by most of the Ferners.
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
France's depth is the biggest in the world, even bigger than South Africa's, IMO.
I’d agree with this. The JIFF-rule in the Top14 seems to have worked pretty well, their academies are quite comfortably the best-resourced in the world. Looking at the France 7s over the weekend, fringe Top14 squad players like Celian Pouzelgues and Victor Hannoun have a nicely developed skillset but they aren’t required by their XVs teams at all. That’s a luxury.
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
There is a bunch of young, exciting players, who are or will probably be better than the current ones (Ollivon - Cros - Alldritt) : Castro-Ferreira, Gazotti, Matiu, Jegou, Boudehent are certainly going to form the French back row for the next RWC.
I myself am not quite as confident about the upcoming class of loose forwards as likely being better than their predecessors. Not just because I think that Ollivon, Cros and Aldritt were and are still very good (Aldritt will only be 30 in 2027!), but also because not all the U20 guys have performed as well as might be expected. I’ve watched a lot of Gazzotti these past months and I feel like he still has some way to go. It won’t have helped that he’s being played across the backrow from week-to-week but when watching him closely, to me it looks like he still struggles to impact the game without the ball. I’m sure he’ll get there eventually but I was honestly surprised he was called-up by Galthié this November.
Agree on Jégou, though, very good player. Excellent at linking play and at operating a lineout. France should be more than competitive in July.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/razors-conservatism-is-in-danger-of-halting-new-zealands-progress/
Interesting article. And the comments section had similar sentiment to what I read on here
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/razors-conservatism-is-in-danger-of-halting-new-zealands-progress/
Interesting article. And the comments section had similar sentiment to what I read on here
It’s not a fair comparison - Rassie has been there 6 years. Razor’s 1st season.
Rassie has the freedom to do what he wants based on his success. Razor has been given a lot of support but has yet to build up a body of success that will allow him to do what he wants and not have any scrutiny.
Case in point, he gives the springbok captaincy to Saalman Moerat on his 7th cap. Why? It seems a crazy decision to give it to a relative unknown above more deserving Boks. They lost the game. Rassie is not questioned.
Can you imagine Razor doing that with a player of similar test caps?
Boks had quite a few injuries, have a weird 12 month season where they have to rest players due to workload as players come together from SA, Japan, Europe and they recognise they have to blood new players due to an ageing squad.
They used 9 players more than us this year? Or around 18% more. 52 in total, but have only really added Fassi as a player who has arguably taken ownership of a starting jersey.
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It would be interesting stat would be the spread of minutes as opposed to just number of players. A guy like plummer being counted as a new player with like 25 seconds is not the same as a guy getting a start.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
https://www.rugbypass.com/plus/razors-conservatism-is-in-danger-of-halting-new-zealands-progress/
Interesting article. And the comments section had similar sentiment to what I read on here
It’s not a fair comparison - Rassie has been there 6 years. Razor’s 1st season.
Rassie has the freedom to do what he wants based on his success. Razor has been given a lot of support but has yet to build up a body of success that will allow him to do what he wants and not have any scrutiny.
Case in point, he gives the springbok captaincy to Saalman Moerat on his 7th cap. Why? It seems a crazy decision to give it to a relative unknown above more deserving Boks. They lost the game. Rassie is not questioned.
Can you imagine Razor doing that with a player of similar test caps?
Boks had quite a few injuries, have a weird 12 month season where they have to rest players due to workload as players come together from SA, Japan, Europe and they recognise they have to blood new players due to an ageing squad.
They used 9 players more than us this year? Or around 18% more. 52 in total, but have only really added Fassi as a player who has arguably taken ownership of a starting jersey.
@DaGrubster I think people would have understood if he tried some of the form players in SR. Not doing so, instead picking old stagers, along with some homer picks and losing matches anyway eroded much of his goodwill
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It would be interesting stat would be the spread of minutes as opposed to just number of players. A guy like plummer being counted as a new player with like 25 seconds is not the same as a guy getting a start.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
It would be interesting stat would be the spread of minutes as opposed to just number of players. A guy like plummer being counted as a new player with like 25 seconds is not the same as a guy getting a start.
Likewise - only played against Japan or Fiji.
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It would be interesting stat would be the spread of minutes as opposed to just number of players. A guy like plummer being counted as a new player with like 25 seconds is not the same as a guy getting a start.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
It would be interesting stat would be the spread of minutes as opposed to just number of players. A guy like plummer being counted as a new player with like 25 seconds is not the same as a guy getting a start.
Yeah certainly makes Razor look better in that regard with no context involved. Guys like Bell, Proctor, Love, Lakai and Hotham barely played at all.
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@Darren said in All Blacks 2025:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2025:
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Hoping France bring a decent squad to NZ in July.
I hope they do send an under strength team and we pummel them.
But it's going to be embarrassing if we do lose.
France's depth is the biggest in the world, even bigger than South Africa's, IMO. If Dupont doesn't travel, his potential substitutes are all a class above most of the halfbacks in the NH, with the notable exception of Gibson-Parkes (Le Garrec, Serin, Couilloud). Where France's depth is the most impressive is in the loose forwards. There is a bunch of young, exciting players, who are or will probably be better than the current ones (Ollivon - Cros - Alldritt) : Castro-Ferreira, Gazotti, Matiu, Jegou, Boudehent are certainly going to form the French back row for the next RWC. The same could be written about many positions. The team which will play in NZ next July will be a team of no names but it will be stronger than expected by most of the Ferners.
@cgrant said in All Blacks 2025:
The team which will play in NZ next July will be a team of no names but it will be stronger than expected by most of the Ferners.
Their series in Aust in 2021 was a good example of that. The pressure will be all on the ABs.
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I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with. If it's a test match where possible put the players on field you think will win the game. Age old or young shouldn't come into it, what a player will contribute towards winning said test should be the marker!
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@DaGrubster I think people would have understood if he tried some of the form players in SR. Not doing so, instead picking old stagers, along with some homer picks and losing matches anyway eroded much of his goodwill
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think people would have understood if he tried some of the form players in SR. Not doing so, instead picking old stagers, along with some homer picks and losing matches anyway eroded much of his goodwill
I agree. Players like Sititi/Lakai, Tosi Darry to a lesser extent, have shown that super rugby does produce players who can excel at test rugby. We need to put more faith into it and not get hung up on experience for experience sake.
Razor went down the experience route this year. I hope he has seen he can put his trust into younger players next year.
Perhaps one of the reasons for Rassie using more players is that he could afford to as they had an easier year of fixtures than the All Blacks
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I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with. If it's a test match where possible put the players on field you think will win the game. Age old or young shouldn't come into it, what a player will contribute towards winning said test should be the marker!
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with. If it's a test match where possible put the players on field you think will win the game. Age old or young shouldn't come into it, what a player will contribute towards winning said test should be the marker!
I can see why he wanted to pick certain players such as TJ and Cane.
Cane to a lesser extent because he hadn’t played since February with a back injury but he was in and around the squad at Razor’s first squad naming which may have made it harder for Scott Barrett to put his own stamp on the team as
Captain.Both have now gone and the only real veterans are Taylor and B Barrett
Taylor has proved his worth this year and we should have 3 world class hookers in the squad next year barring injury.
I agree with your sentiment about winning test match now. Winning test matches creates a positive team culture and with rugby being so attritional, there will always be a need for a large squad to cover injuries and workload.
Razor hasn’t been as good as I expected him to be. We saw how good his team can be at times and I am looking for him to now kick on and see the ABs improve next year in Razors second year.
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I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with. If it's a test match where possible put the players on field you think will win the game. Age old or young shouldn't come into it, what a player will contribute towards winning said test should be the marker!
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with
as I expect many do, sadly, it is a reality of where the game is at currently, and has been for some time now, so does need to be a focus.
I'd take the 'choker' tag of winning everything in between RWCs that losing all sorts of random games we shouldnt lose, vs winning the RWC.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with
as I expect many do, sadly, it is a reality of where the game is at currently, and has been for some time now, so does need to be a focus.
I'd take the 'choker' tag of winning everything in between RWCs that losing all sorts of random games we shouldnt lose, vs winning the RWC.
@taniwharugby does it have to be a choice? Want cake and eat it.
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@Machpants Interesting how the article goes from a analysis of Razors selections to a highly specific analysis on Jordie Barrett's 40 minutes of game time for Leinster - perhaps something more relevant to Holland & his ingame tactics?.
On that topic, it is lovely to watch Jordie showing what he really can offer - after a tough ABs season of pretty much exclusively running hard straight lines with Rieko on his shoulder doing the exact same thing, his distribution was not something that shone through
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My disappointment with Razor is that he has a full 12 months between finishing up at the Crusaders and starting the ABs job
I was hoping that unprecedented lead in time would mean he would hit the ground running more than he has in terms of selection.
He has selected the squad as if he got thrown the job on short notice straight off the back of a Super Rugby campaign.
"Razor has been selecting players he knows"
Well what was he doing for 12 months between finishing up at the Crusaders and starting the ABs.
He had 12 months to try and learn as much as possible about other franchises and what they do.
I'm sceptical that much is going to change in year 2.
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I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with. If it's a test match where possible put the players on field you think will win the game. Age old or young shouldn't come into it, what a player will contribute towards winning said test should be the marker!
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with.
but it wasn't just that for WC-building, but beyond this year! And Cane came back from Japan so really got a special gold card entry into the team! Were the Cane and TJP picks the best for this year, looking back? Sounds like the beginning of a hotly contested Fern thread. But they certainly are not helping 2025 All Blacks..
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with.
but it wasn't just that for WC-building, but beyond this year! And Cane came back from Japan so really got a special gold card entry into the team! Were the Cane and TJP picks the best for this year, looking back? Sounds like the beginning of a hotly contested Fern thread. But they certainly are not helping 2025 All Blacks..
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2025:
I not huge fan of Razor or otherwise, he's got the job (like Foster before) so has my complete support. The one thing I will say about his so called sticking with old players, I would of picked both Cane and TJ myself, this crap about just building for WCs, I personally disagree with.
but it wasn't just that for WC-building, but beyond this year! And Cane came back from Japan so really got a special gold card entry into the team! Were the Cane and TJP picks the best for this year, looking back? Sounds like the beginning of a hotly contested Fern thread. But they certainly are not helping 2025 All Blacks..
Agree they not helping 2025 ABs, except to perhaps help with bringing young fellas through. But not their job, their job was to do what they could to help the 2024 team win tests. See what concerns me is the idea if a player is retiring at end of this or next year we decide not to pick him, that is not how it should ever be.
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My disappointment with Razor is that he has a full 12 months between finishing up at the Crusaders and starting the ABs job
I was hoping that unprecedented lead in time would mean he would hit the ground running more than he has in terms of selection.
He has selected the squad as if he got thrown the job on short notice straight off the back of a Super Rugby campaign.
"Razor has been selecting players he knows"
Well what was he doing for 12 months between finishing up at the Crusaders and starting the ABs.
He had 12 months to try and learn as much as possible about other franchises and what they do.
I'm sceptical that much is going to change in year 2.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2025:
My disappointment with Razor is that he has a full 12 months between finishing up at the Crusaders and starting the ABs job
I was hoping that unprecedented lead in time would mean he would hit the ground running more than he has in terms of selection.
He has selected the squad as if he got thrown the job on short notice straight off the back of a Super Rugby campaign.
"Razor has been selecting players he knows"
Well what was he doing for 12 months between finishing up at the Crusaders and starting the ABs.
He had 12 months to try and learn as much as possible about other franchises and what they do.
I'm sceptical that much is going to change in year 2.
100% this
ive also seen the comments about not having scouted people and so playing it safe and was thinking to myself WTF had he been doing? Hell, if local club teams scout their opposition then i would expect he would have all the top players in NZ already scouted when he was crusader coach let alone the time in between gigs
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There might be some cheap used Ford Rangers on the market soon. Ford is ending their sponsorship.
Ford confirmed the end of its New Zealand rugby sponsorship, stating, "We are incredibly proud to have been a sponsor of the All Blacks and NZ Rugby for over 30 years. However, the decision has been made to conclude our partnership in 2025." They expressed disappointment at the separation but reflected positively on their experience, acknowledging the strong relationships forged with athletes and fans alike. In their farewell, Ford assured support for players during the transition period.
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There might be some cheap used Ford Rangers on the market soon. Ford is ending their sponsorship.
Ford confirmed the end of its New Zealand rugby sponsorship, stating, "We are incredibly proud to have been a sponsor of the All Blacks and NZ Rugby for over 30 years. However, the decision has been made to conclude our partnership in 2025." They expressed disappointment at the separation but reflected positively on their experience, acknowledging the strong relationships forged with athletes and fans alike. In their farewell, Ford assured support for players during the transition period.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
There might be some cheap used Ford Rangers on the market soon. Ford is ending their sponsorship.
Ford confirmed the end of its New Zealand rugby sponsorship, stating, "We are incredibly proud to have been a sponsor of the All Blacks and NZ Rugby for over 30 years. However, the decision has been made to conclude our partnership in 2025." They expressed disappointment at the separation but reflected positively on their experience, acknowledging the strong relationships forged with athletes and fans alike. In their farewell, Ford assured support for players during the transition period.
So, this extra revenue from Silverlake is probably just consultants telling the NZRU to shake down sponsors. If it works, they could land some really big names; let's hope they don't chase away the firms that had a commitment to the team (brand).
