All Blacks 2025
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
While not perfect, Ryan is a world class forwards coach and has World Cup experience so that puts your theory to bed.
I would be more confident if Schmidt was in charge but I see no reason why Razor and team can’t go and win a word cup in 3 years time
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I would be more confident if Schmidt was in charge but I see no reason why Razor and team can’t go and win a word cup in 3 years time
This year has been underwhelming to put it mildly (and worse that Foster's 1st year IIRC). The biggest problem is the inconsistency and going to sleep/scoreless for long periods of the game we've seen for years and I've seen nothing that Robertson has any more clue than Foster on how to fix that.
TBF to Robertson it's his first season and I like his starting discussions on systemic problems e.g. overseas-based players (though I disagree on that) . But he needs to have some confidence in his players, be bolder in 2025 and take some risks. Another repeat of this year and there'll need to be some serious discussions.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I would be more confident if Schmidt was in charge but I see no reason why Razor and team can’t go and win a word cup in 3 years time
This year has been underwhelming to put it mildly (and worse that Foster's 1st year IIRC). The biggest problem is the inconsistency and going to sleep/scoreless for long periods of the game we've seen for years and I've seen nothing that Robertson has any more clue than Foster on how to fix that.
TBF to Robertson it's his first season and I like his starting discussions on systemic problems e.g. overseas-based players (though I disagree on that) . But he needs to have some confidence in his players, be bolder in 2025 and take some risks. Another repeat of this year and there'll need to be some serious discussions.
The front five have gone well, Wallace Sititi is a great find and we have a lot more depth at Half Back than I'd have thought. Those are the positives.
Beyond that though it's disappointing. Too many of our best players have had no or very little game time. Aged players are given the nod even if they are out of form and have been in decline for several years. It makes no sense when there are younger, better players. We are unusually mediocre at 6 and 8. None of our options at Ten look world class and we have perhaps our worst three-quarter line for 30 years.
If I had to sum up the All Blacks 2024 in one word it's "underwhelming."
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I would be more confident if Schmidt was in charge but I see no reason why Razor and team can’t go and win a word cup in 3 years time
This year has been underwhelming to put it mildly (and worse that Foster's 1st year IIRC). The biggest problem is the inconsistency and going to sleep/scoreless for long periods of the game we've seen for years and I've seen nothing that Robertson has any more clue than Foster on how to fix that.
TBF to Robertson it's his first season and I like his starting discussions on systemic problems e.g. overseas-based players (though I disagree on that) . But he needs to have some confidence in his players, be bolder in 2025 and take some risks. Another repeat of this year and there'll need to be some serious discussions.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I would be more confident if Schmidt was in charge but I see no reason why Razor and team can’t go and win a word cup in 3 years time
This year has been underwhelming to put it mildly (and worse that Foster's 1st year IIRC). The biggest problem is the inconsistency and going to sleep/scoreless for long periods of the game we've seen for years and I've seen nothing that Robertson has any more clue than Foster on how to fix that.
TBF to Robertson it's his first season and I like his starting discussions on systemic problems e.g. overseas-based players (though I disagree on that) . But he needs to have some confidence in his players, be bolder in 2025 and take some risks. Another repeat of this year and there'll need to be some serious discussions.
Underwhelming, yes, but certainly not as bad as Foster's first year.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
I would be more confident if Schmidt was in charge but I see no reason why Razor and team can’t go and win a word cup in 3 years time
This year has been underwhelming to put it mildly (and worse that Foster's 1st year IIRC). The biggest problem is the inconsistency and going to sleep/scoreless for long periods of the game we've seen for years and I've seen nothing that Robertson has any more clue than Foster on how to fix that.
TBF to Robertson it's his first season and I like his starting discussions on systemic problems e.g. overseas-based players (though I disagree on that) . But he needs to have some confidence in his players, be bolder in 2025 and take some risks. Another repeat of this year and there'll need to be some serious discussions.
Underwhelming, yes, but certainly not as bad as Foster's first year.
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Underwhelming, yes, but certainly not as bad as Foster's first year.
Robertson helmed 14 Tests in his 1st year and compared to Foster's first 14 Tests, it's worse. (72% win ratio compared to c. 77% for Foster).
But the fact we're even discussing this point really is the big issue, isn't it?
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The front five have gone well, Wallace Sititi is a great find and we have a lot more depth at Half Back than I'd have thought. Those are the positives.
Beyond that though it's disappointing. Too many of our best players have had no or very little game time. Aged players are given the nod even if they are out of form and have been in decline for several years. It makes no sense when there are younger, better players. We are unusually mediocre at 6 and 8. None of our options at Ten look world class and we have perhaps our worst three-quarter line for 30 years.
If I had to sum up the All Blacks 2024 in one word it's "underwhelming."
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
The front five have gone well, Wallace Sititi is a great find and we have a lot more depth at Half Back than I'd have thought. Those are the positives.
The front 5 def. kicked on and players like Vaa'i have proved to be shrewd selections and good, long-term coaching has produced the goods.
But you have to ask if Sititi and Ratima would have been there if Blackadder and Christie hadn't been injured
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
He also selected Tosi - which seems to be paying off.
As for selections, he picks the tight five - which has been pretty good ever since he took over.
Not convinced by selections in the forwards - esp, 6/7/8 - as injury has been the best selector this year. That the likes of Sititi, Lakia, etc slotted in so seamlessly speaks well of the forwards coaching set-up, though.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Frank said in All Blacks 2025:
He also selected Tosi - which seems to be paying off.
As for selections, he picks the tight five - which has been pretty good ever since he took over.
Not convinced by selections in the forwards - esp, 6/7/8 - as injury has been the best selector this year. That the likes of Sititi, Lakia, etc slotted in so seamlessly speaks well of the forwards coaching set-up, though.
I thought Razor selected the loosies?
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Underwhelming, yes, but certainly not as bad as Foster's first year.
Robertson helmed 14 Tests in his 1st year and compared to Foster's first 14 Tests, it's worse. (72% win ratio compared to c. 77% for Foster).
But the fact we're even discussing this point really is the big issue, isn't it?
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Underwhelming, yes, but certainly not as bad as Foster's first year.
Robertson helmed 14 Tests in his 1st year and compared to Foster's first 14 Tests, it's worse. (72% win ratio compared to c. 77% for Foster).
But the fact we're even discussing this point really is the big issue, isn't it?
I'd like to see a list of those opposing teams though - I suspect we played higher-ranked teams and in their country more often.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2025:
Underwhelming, yes, but certainly not as bad as Foster's first year.
Robertson helmed 14 Tests in his 1st year and compared to Foster's first 14 Tests, it's worse. (72% win ratio compared to c. 77% for Foster).
But the fact we're even discussing this point really is the big issue, isn't it?
I'd like to see a list of those opposing teams though - I suspect we played higher-ranked teams and in their country more often.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
I suspect we played higher-ranked teams and in their country more often.
50/50
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
The front five have gone well, Wallace Sititi is a great find and we have a lot more depth at Half Back than I'd have thought. Those are the positives.
The front 5 def. kicked on and players like Vaa'i have proved to be shrewd selections and good, long-term coaching has produced the goods.
But you have to ask if Sititi and Ratima would have been there if Blackadder and Christie hadn't been injured
@Victor-Meldrew Christie was dropped wasn't he?
Sititi, agree, continuing superb selections that injury forced in the past few years.
Seems both of these last coaching groups lacked a bit of forward thinking and were far too conservative unless the cards they were dealt forced them to be otherwise.
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So the aims for the All Blacks next year should be:
Whitewash France 3-0.
Extend the Eden park record and beat the Boks 2-0
Win TRC
Go to No.1 in the world rankings
Complete the grand slamAll very achievable games on paper.
Maybe argies away will be a potential banana skin.
As will England away.
And some random thoughts on players…
I’d like to see Samisoni back finally and somewhere back to his best and to have regular rotation between our top 3-4 hookers - Taylor doesn’t neeed to play every game, Aumua needs to build on his breakthrough end of year tour, samisoni will wanto continue his comback and re-establish himself in international rugby and Bell will need more minutes to bring him up to international standard (low priority at this stage though)
I want to see Holland establish himself in the match day 23.
Lakai and Paps to slug it out for the 7 jersey. Think Lakai is favoured right now.
Sititi with more minutes at 8 and we start to play with a big munter at 6.
Need to develop options at 12/13 - meaning more game time for Proctor and Lam/Higgins.
Who do we think will be debuting for the ABs next year?
Need to find a left winger and settle on RW/FB combination. Jordan at fullback is obviously Razors preferred position for him but WJ at RW and another player at fullback (e.g Love) might suit the team better. -
So the aims for the All Blacks next year should be:
Whitewash France 3-0.
Extend the Eden park record and beat the Boks 2-0
Win TRC
Go to No.1 in the world rankings
Complete the grand slamAll very achievable games on paper.
Maybe argies away will be a potential banana skin.
As will England away.
And some random thoughts on players…
I’d like to see Samisoni back finally and somewhere back to his best and to have regular rotation between our top 3-4 hookers - Taylor doesn’t neeed to play every game, Aumua needs to build on his breakthrough end of year tour, samisoni will wanto continue his comback and re-establish himself in international rugby and Bell will need more minutes to bring him up to international standard (low priority at this stage though)
I want to see Holland establish himself in the match day 23.
Lakai and Paps to slug it out for the 7 jersey. Think Lakai is favoured right now.
Sititi with more minutes at 8 and we start to play with a big munter at 6.
Need to develop options at 12/13 - meaning more game time for Proctor and Lam/Higgins.
Who do we think will be debuting for the ABs next year?
Need to find a left winger and settle on RW/FB combination. Jordan at fullback is obviously Razors preferred position for him but WJ at RW and another player at fullback (e.g Love) might suit the team better.@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
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@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
While not perfect, Ryan is a world class forwards coach and has World Cup experience so that puts your theory to bed.
I would be more confident if Schmidt was in charge but I see no reason why Razor and team can’t go and win a word cup in 3 years time
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
a lot effluent in their praise for them
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
a lot effluent in their praise for them
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
a lot effluent in their praise for them
Maybe it does...
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@darylmitchell said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris I remain unconvinced that we can win 2027 WC with this current coaching staff, look at the last 4 World Cup winners all of them had at least 1 world class assistant coach, 2011 Professor, 2015 Professor, 2019/2023 Nienaber and Felix Jones, and world rugby is only getting more competitive and the gap between NZ and European resources/money getting bigger so feel we need a genuine point of difference (like Tony Brown is) going forward.
Bollocks. Stop making shit up. It’s just revisionism.
You don’t have any idea if this listed were be any better.
What on earth are you trying to say?
How is it revisionism, On which planet is Razor's group on the same level as the last 4 WC winning coaching groups? Erasmus/Neiber/Felix Jones 2019-2023, Hansen/Smith/Cron 2011-2015.
What had Ellison & Holland achieved in comparison to those widely respected names before they got their gigs?
I've seen plenty of articles with players referencing those listed as great coaches, a lot effluent in their praise for them. I haven't heard a single account of a current player praising Ellison or Holland as coaches, have you?
What had Rassie and Jacques whatsiafsce achieved as international coaches before the won the World Cup in 2019?
The fact is they have created their reputation through World Cup wins. Not before.
Felix Jones is a good coach. But is now elevated to genius because the team he worked with managed to win a World Cup by 1 point when absolutely everything went their way in the final.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@DaGrubster I think Clarke at 11 and WJ at 14 with Love at 15 would be ideal.
I want to at least see that combination once or twice in a big game
I'd just like to see Love (and the other squad members not part of the coaching setup's magic circle) given some game-time....
I don't like feeling that Razor sees some of these up and comers as mere place holders for the guys he really wants to come home
Who’s he waiting to come home to take Love’s spot?
I do agree that DMAC probably feels like a placeholder though!
I didn't mention Love in that sentence.... It was a general comment
