All Blacks 2025

MN5

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:

https://www.rugbyjp.com/post/aaron-smith-sees-joseph-manu-as-a-future-all-black?fbclid=IwY2xjawHsZzNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfgtOU3wpVIxc2D4adlZklAu6ju18zPEMwoYDE_OrGW3GQ1xEojjm-AAgg_aem_zCWOu0ouR90sajhG5INapA

Maybe if he converted a few years ago.

Still only 28, no reason why he couldn't get another half a decade in if he's a hard worker.

Oh, I agree that he could have 5 plus years in Union.

But he is 28 now and won’t make a super rugby debut until he is 30 at the earliest so I think there would be a reluctance from AB selectors to pick someone like that

If he's a proper athlete ala SBW and better than the rest I don't see why not.

I think he's a potentially a better bet than Benji and RTS who made the change late in their careers. Of the three I think he's more suited to rugby and like all I guess it depends on how he transitions back.

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

If he was smart, he would sign for the crusaders then!

Nah, he should skip that and just go straight to the Chiefs to become a proper rugby player.

Nah ("if he's a proper athlete ala SBW") he should just skip that and go to the Blues like what SBW did

This is not the 1980s. It’s not like all league converts are athletes compared to the weedy union players. They’re all athletes now.

I point you to my use of ""....

Aw ok, my bad.

All this ‘SBW is such an amazing athlete’ compared to everyone else is just nonsense

Yeah true, no point using an example of a guy who was a complete professional and dedicated himself to being the best he could in his job when we can just point to guys who went deep into their 30s at the top like Savea and Bridge.

Savea was a great athlete. Like a fast bus, just like his nickname. Beat defenders at will.

Bridge had deceptive pace.

And both went on to play at the highest level well into their 30s.

Ok, by that reckoning all the tries that Jonah and Cully got from freakish athleticism can be forgotten about cos neither of the played in their 30s

Glad you're completely misunderstanding the point. Maybe stick to cricket.

You may as well be speaking another language cos I have no idea what you’re on about. SBW was in the ABs solely on reputation at the end

Davidav and Toeava springs to mind.

SBW is bloody good fun as a commentator though I’ll give him that, nice offload to Nonu in 2015 too

Nepia

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:

https://www.rugbyjp.com/post/aaron-smith-sees-joseph-manu-as-a-future-all-black?fbclid=IwY2xjawHsZzNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfgtOU3wpVIxc2D4adlZklAu6ju18zPEMwoYDE_OrGW3GQ1xEojjm-AAgg_aem_zCWOu0ouR90sajhG5INapA

Maybe if he converted a few years ago.

Still only 28, no reason why he couldn't get another half a decade in if he's a hard worker.

Oh, I agree that he could have 5 plus years in Union.

But he is 28 now and won’t make a super rugby debut until he is 30 at the earliest so I think there would be a reluctance from AB selectors to pick someone like that

If he's a proper athlete ala SBW and better than the rest I don't see why not.

I think he's a potentially a better bet than Benji and RTS who made the change late in their careers. Of the three I think he's more suited to rugby and like all I guess it depends on how he transitions back.

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

If he was smart, he would sign for the crusaders then!

Nah, he should skip that and just go straight to the Chiefs to become a proper rugby player.

Nah ("if he's a proper athlete ala SBW") he should just skip that and go to the Blues like what SBW did

This is not the 1980s. It’s not like all league converts are athletes compared to the weedy union players. They’re all athletes now.

I point you to my use of ""....

Aw ok, my bad.

All this ‘SBW is such an amazing athlete’ compared to everyone else is just nonsense

Yeah true, no point using an example of a guy who was a complete professional and dedicated himself to being the best he could in his job when we can just point to guys who went deep into their 30s at the top like Savea and Bridge.

Savea was a great athlete. Like a fast bus, just like his nickname. Beat defenders at will.

Bridge had deceptive pace.

For an extremely short amount of his career ...

MN5

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:

https://www.rugbyjp.com/post/aaron-smith-sees-joseph-manu-as-a-future-all-black?fbclid=IwY2xjawHsZzNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfgtOU3wpVIxc2D4adlZklAu6ju18zPEMwoYDE_OrGW3GQ1xEojjm-AAgg_aem_zCWOu0ouR90sajhG5INapA

Maybe if he converted a few years ago.

Still only 28, no reason why he couldn't get another half a decade in if he's a hard worker.

Oh, I agree that he could have 5 plus years in Union.

But he is 28 now and won’t make a super rugby debut until he is 30 at the earliest so I think there would be a reluctance from AB selectors to pick someone like that

If he's a proper athlete ala SBW and better than the rest I don't see why not.

I think he's a potentially a better bet than Benji and RTS who made the change late in their careers. Of the three I think he's more suited to rugby and like all I guess it depends on how he transitions back.

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

If he was smart, he would sign for the crusaders then!

Nah, he should skip that and just go straight to the Chiefs to become a proper rugby player.

Nah ("if he's a proper athlete ala SBW") he should just skip that and go to the Blues like what SBW did

This is not the 1980s. It’s not like all league converts are athletes compared to the weedy union players. They’re all athletes now.

I point you to my use of ""....

Aw ok, my bad.

All this ‘SBW is such an amazing athlete’ compared to everyone else is just nonsense

Yeah true, no point using an example of a guy who was a complete professional and dedicated himself to being the best he could in his job when we can just point to guys who went deep into their 30s at the top like Savea and Bridge.

Savea was a great athlete. Like a fast bus, just like his nickname. Beat defenders at will.

Bridge had deceptive pace.

For an extremely short amount of his career ...

Long enough to be second equal on the list of all time try scorers. What do you expect ? An AB outside back to have a 10-15 year career? Savea more than did his job

Nepia

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:

https://www.rugbyjp.com/post/aaron-smith-sees-joseph-manu-as-a-future-all-black?fbclid=IwY2xjawHsZzNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfgtOU3wpVIxc2D4adlZklAu6ju18zPEMwoYDE_OrGW3GQ1xEojjm-AAgg_aem_zCWOu0ouR90sajhG5INapA

Maybe if he converted a few years ago.

Still only 28, no reason why he couldn't get another half a decade in if he's a hard worker.

Oh, I agree that he could have 5 plus years in Union.

But he is 28 now and won’t make a super rugby debut until he is 30 at the earliest so I think there would be a reluctance from AB selectors to pick someone like that

If he's a proper athlete ala SBW and better than the rest I don't see why not.

I think he's a potentially a better bet than Benji and RTS who made the change late in their careers. Of the three I think he's more suited to rugby and like all I guess it depends on how he transitions back.

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

If he was smart, he would sign for the crusaders then!

Nah, he should skip that and just go straight to the Chiefs to become a proper rugby player.

Nah ("if he's a proper athlete ala SBW") he should just skip that and go to the Blues like what SBW did

This is not the 1980s. It’s not like all league converts are athletes compared to the weedy union players. They’re all athletes now.

I point you to my use of ""....

Aw ok, my bad.

All this ‘SBW is such an amazing athlete’ compared to everyone else is just nonsense

Yeah true, no point using an example of a guy who was a complete professional and dedicated himself to being the best he could in his job when we can just point to guys who went deep into their 30s at the top like Savea and Bridge.

Savea was a great athlete. Like a fast bus, just like his nickname. Beat defenders at will.

Bridge had deceptive pace.

For an extremely short amount of his career ...

Long enough to be second equal on the list of all time try scorers. What do you expect ? An AB outside back to have a 10-15 year career? Savea more than did his job

Of course I don't want them to have 10-15 year careers if they can't maintain their form ... I'd much rather Savea had had less time in the jersey, just the time that covers your fluffing statement about him.

MN5

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:

@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:

https://www.rugbyjp.com/post/aaron-smith-sees-joseph-manu-as-a-future-all-black?fbclid=IwY2xjawHsZzNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfgtOU3wpVIxc2D4adlZklAu6ju18zPEMwoYDE_OrGW3GQ1xEojjm-AAgg_aem_zCWOu0ouR90sajhG5INapA

Maybe if he converted a few years ago.

Still only 28, no reason why he couldn't get another half a decade in if he's a hard worker.

Oh, I agree that he could have 5 plus years in Union.

But he is 28 now and won’t make a super rugby debut until he is 30 at the earliest so I think there would be a reluctance from AB selectors to pick someone like that

If he's a proper athlete ala SBW and better than the rest I don't see why not.

I think he's a potentially a better bet than Benji and RTS who made the change late in their careers. Of the three I think he's more suited to rugby and like all I guess it depends on how he transitions back.

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

If he was smart, he would sign for the crusaders then!

Nah, he should skip that and just go straight to the Chiefs to become a proper rugby player.

Nah ("if he's a proper athlete ala SBW") he should just skip that and go to the Blues like what SBW did

This is not the 1980s. It’s not like all league converts are athletes compared to the weedy union players. They’re all athletes now.

I point you to my use of ""....

Aw ok, my bad.

All this ‘SBW is such an amazing athlete’ compared to everyone else is just nonsense

Yeah true, no point using an example of a guy who was a complete professional and dedicated himself to being the best he could in his job when we can just point to guys who went deep into their 30s at the top like Savea and Bridge.

Savea was a great athlete. Like a fast bus, just like his nickname. Beat defenders at will.

Bridge had deceptive pace.

For an extremely short amount of his career ...

Long enough to be second equal on the list of all time try scorers. What do you expect ? An AB outside back to have a 10-15 year career? Savea more than did his job

Of course I don't want them to have 10-15 year careers if they can't maintain their form ... I'd much rather Savea had had less time in the jersey, just the time that covers your fluffing statement about.

Well yeah he did a fine job til the younger model came along, that younger model is now in a battle to start at centre this year against a genuine centre in Proctor.

It does make Shane Williams, Bryan Habana and Sean Lamont look good in terms of longevity though

kiwiinmelb

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2025:

@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:

https://www.rugbyjp.com/post/aaron-smith-sees-joseph-manu-as-a-future-all-black?fbclid=IwY2xjawHsZzNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfgtOU3wpVIxc2D4adlZklAu6ju18zPEMwoYDE_OrGW3GQ1xEojjm-AAgg_aem_zCWOu0ouR90sajhG5INapA

Maybe if he converted a few years ago.

Still only 28, no reason why he couldn't get another half a decade in if he's a hard worker.

Oh, I agree that he could have 5 plus years in Union.

But he is 28 now and won’t make a super rugby debut until he is 30 at the earliest so I think there would be a reluctance from AB selectors to pick someone like that

If he's a proper athlete ala SBW and better than the rest I don't see why not.

I think a lot depends on whoever is coach at the time and whether they have the belief in the players potential.

Wayne Smith appeared to be a big believer in athletic freaks and getting that to transition into game time ,sbw and toeava were a couple in particular he would openly discuss as projects when first selected.

canefan

In his first super season Ice was freakish at FB for the Canes. He probably should have stayed at FB for longer, and should have stayed in Wellington

gt12

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

In his first super season Ice was freakish at FB for the Canes. He probably should have stayed at FB for longer, and should have stayed in Wellington

Also magic at 12 for the Blues when he got a chance there.

He destroyed the Bulls (I think it was) in SA with his running and passing game. He waa much better there than at 13 IMO.

Your point is fair though, had they asked him to focus on one position, he would likely have had a better career.

Nepia

Didn't he also get injured often and at the wrong time too, which also limited his chance for a better career?

MN5

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

In his first super season Ice was freakish at FB for the Canes. He probably should have stayed at FB for longer, and should have stayed in Wellington

Also magic at 12 for the Blues when he got a chance there.

He destroyed the Bulls (I think it was) in SA with his running and passing game. He waa much better there than at 13 IMO.

Your point is fair though, had they asked him to focus on one position, he would likely have had a better career.

Toeava was basically David Havili with impact.

canefan

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

In his first super season Ice was freakish at FB for the Canes. He probably should have stayed at FB for longer, and should have stayed in Wellington

Also magic at 12 for the Blues when he got a chance there.

He destroyed the Bulls (I think it was) in SA with his running and passing game. He waa much better there than at 13 IMO.

Your point is fair though, had they asked him to focus on one position, he would likely have had a better career.

Should have stayed at 15 for longer before making the change. IIRC he was in a star studded back 3 for the Canes so it was a better situation for him to develop IMHO

nzzp

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

had they asked him to focus on one position, he would likely have had a better career.

I think he played every position from ten upwards for the Blues. Superb player, with occasional Brad Shields hands

darylmitchell

@MN5 said in All Blacks 2025:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

In his first super season Ice was freakish at FB for the Canes. He probably should have stayed at FB for longer, and should have stayed in Wellington

Also magic at 12 for the Blues when he got a chance there.

He destroyed the Bulls (I think it was) in SA with his running and passing game. He waa much better there than at 13 IMO.

Your point is fair though, had they asked him to focus on one position, he would likely have had a better career.

Toeava was basically David Havili with impact.

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

Also magic at 12 for the Blues when he got a chance there.

He destroyed the Bulls (I think it was) in SA with his running and passing game. He waa much better there than at 13 IMO.

Your point is fair though, had they asked him to focus on one position, he would likely have had a better career.

Toeava could've been AB's permanent 12 after Nonu left 2016-2019 instead of the revolving door that followed

canefan

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

had they asked him to focus on one position, he would likely have had a better career.

I think he played every position from ten upwards for the Blues. Superb player, with occasional Brad Shields hands

For whatever reason he couldn't make the jump to excellent AB or even AB great

Jet

@canefan said in All Blacks 2025:

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:

@gt12 said in All Blacks 2025:

had they asked him to focus on one position, he would likely have had a better career.

I think he played every position from ten upwards for the Blues. Superb player, with occasional Brad Shields hands

For whatever reason he couldn't make the jump to excellent AB or even AB great

He had bone spurs in his hip or something along those lines.

He was never quite right for most of his career.

Superb player on his day.

Think he could have been Charlie Piutau esque.....another one that got away.

Bones

@Jet eh? You mean the guy that played half as many games as him and never hit great highs either?

reprobate

Toeava was totally mismanaged. Picked too early because everyone wants to be the coach who picks a gun out of left field, and pushed around too many positions. Then injuries on top.

cgrant

He was talented but failed to deliver because of the reasons listed above. He was outstanding in the Top 14 because he was full of confidence, as he was considered a star in the Clermont backline.

Jet

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@Jet eh? You mean the guy that played half as many games as him and never hit great highs either?

Yeah Charles Piutau. That guy.

Bones

@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:

@Jet eh? You mean the guy that played half as many games as him and never hit great highs either?

Yeah Charles Piutau. That guy.

I guess in much the same way as Marty Holah could've been as good as Sam Harding.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks 2025