2025 6Ns
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squad is ok, but i agree with Cato re Dombrandt. Willis has to play. Hate that Chessum has got better just because he hasn't played, he's too lightweight for a lock and not a good 6 IMO but our lineout is a mess because Martin is heavy and we don't have a jumping option in the back row otherwise.
Steward will have to start at 15 and Maus - please wash your mouth out for suggesting Daly is ever an option at full back ever again. Mitchell coming back should help Marcus at 10 and Finn Smith should be on the bench, he somehow got man of the match against Northampton last week and IMO he was less than average, he looks tired to me.
Our front row is poor or too young.
Overall yet another underwhelming group of players.
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Leaving aside for the moment that Chessum hasn't had much rugby, you're not happy with him because he's too lightweight and you're not keen on Martin because he's a heavy lump. You're difficult to please mate. There's about 6kgs between them apparently so not an awful lot, but I guess it is the way you do (or don't) throw that weight around that counts. However, I'd rather have Chessum, or Coles for that matter in the engine room than either of Ewels or Isiekwe..
Solving the non jumping back row option should be easy if Borthwick picks Ted Hill (which he won't) and Willis at 8 (which he won't). A back row of Hill at 6, Willis at 8 and either Earl or B Curry at 7 would offer a good balance imo.
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Steward will have to start at 15 and Maus - please wash your mouth out for suggesting Daly is ever an option at full back ever again.
Surely Daly's picked as a fullback-option, next to Steward? Who else could possibly fill that slot in the squad selected? Marcus Smith doesn’t strike me as a natural fullback and why would Borthwick move him now that he seems to have finally settled into the 10-role at Test level. Murley, Roebuck and Sleightholme are wingers and Freeman’s last game at fullback came over two years ago, in a Premiership game against Exeter. If Furbank is the template for the Borthwick counter-attack from 15, then Daly comes a lot closer to that than someone like Steward. But, considering Borthwick’s conservative tendencies, I still presume Steward will get first crack.
Again, I’m not saying that Daly would be my choice – he wouldn’t – but the Premiership isn’t exactly overflowing with options either. Joe Carpenter, George Barton, Rich Lane, Josh Hodge, Tom de Glanville, ... Talented players, for sure, but hardly screaming Test quality. Tyrone Green, if convinced to choose England, would’ve been a good option in my view, but maybe he’s still waiting for a call from Rassie.
With Furbank's injury, Steward's issues at Test level and the lack of clear candidates in the Premiership, Daly's inclusion sort of makes sense. But, what it really does, is show that the cupboard is rather bare when it comes to 15s.
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If Smith x 2 are in the squad why is Ford there?
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Steward will have to start at 15 and Maus - please wash your mouth out for suggesting Daly is ever an option at full back ever again.
…But, what it really does, is show that the cupboard is rather bare when it comes to 15s.
What it really shows is the reluctance of Borthwick and Eddie before, him to look at bringing on players with actual involvement and game time in some positions.
Eddie did fuck all to bring on any future scrum halves or wingers. Borthwick has done nothing to bring on any centres, full backs scrum halves or fly halves save when his hand has been forced.
Take Mitchell as an example. Undisputed No9 by a long way but was not even in the RWC squad until injury made him a necessity, then he’s No1. Until this last 8/9 months how much game time did either of the Smiths have at 10? And he still reverts to Ford even now. Same in the centres and Feyi-Waboso was rushed in as injury cover at wing. In all these cases the evidence to give these blokes a go was overwhelming.
Borthwick is so conservative that even Margaret Thatcher would be shaking her head.
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it's weird because England's best periods in November is when they were forced to play with freedom and let Smith cook. They looked dangerous as hell. They have athletic dynamic forwards that can play that game, and 10 who is best playing that game, i am sure they have some pace in the backs. Why restrict it?
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@mariner4life said in 2025 6Ns:
Why restrict it?
Does the coach look like he was a fan of playing at pace?
I will say that I've changed my opinion of Marcus Smith. At first I thought he was Temu Mo'unga. But he's showing maturity and execution worthy of the hype. I'm astonished Borethwick doesn't pick a squad to take advantage of him, Mitchell, Steward etc.
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Steward will have to start at 15 and Maus - please wash your mouth out for suggesting Daly is ever an option at full back ever again.
Surely Daly's picked as a fullback-option, next to Steward? Who else could possibly fill that slot in the squad selected? Marcus Smith doesn’t strike me as a natural fullback and why would Borthwick move him now that he seems to have finally settled into the 10-role at Test level. Murley, Roebuck and Sleightholme are wingers and Freeman’s last game at fullback came over two years ago, in a Premiership game against Exeter. If Furbank is the template for the Borthwick counter-attack from 15, then Daly comes a lot closer to that than someone like Steward. But, considering Borthwick’s conservative tendencies, I still presume Steward will get first crack.
Again, I’m not saying that Daly would be my choice – he wouldn’t – but the Premiership isn’t exactly overflowing with options either. Joe Carpenter, George Barton, Rich Lane, Josh Hodge, Tom de Glanville, ... Talented players, for sure, but hardly screaming Test quality. Tyrone Green, if convinced to choose England, would’ve been a good option in my view, but maybe he’s still waiting for a call from Rassie.
With Furbank's injury, Steward's issues at Test level and the lack of clear candidates in the Premiership, Daly's inclusion sort of makes sense. But, what it really does, is show that the cupboard is rather bare when it comes to 15s.
I'm sorry but i will have no rational conversation about the idea of Elliot Daley playing fullback, I'd rather Jamie George played 15 than him.
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@Catogrande said in 2025 6Ns:
Leaving aside for the moment that Chessum hasn't had much rugby, you're not happy with him because he's too lightweight and you're not keen on Martin because he's a heavy lump. You're difficult to please mate. There's about 6kgs between them apparently so not an awful lot, but I guess it is the way you do (or don't) throw that weight around that counts. However, I'd rather have Chessum, or Coles for that matter in the engine room than either of Ewels or Isiekwe..
Solving the non jumping back row option should be easy if Borthwick picks Ted Hill (which he won't) and Willis at 8 (which he won't). A back row of Hill at 6, Willis at 8 and either Earl or B Curry at 7 would offer a good balance imo.
I'd have Martin as the first name on the team sheet in the pack unless Chessum can put on some bulk and learn to push in a scrum. He reminds me of Tom Croft, one of those fellas who struggle to maintain playing weight as the season goes on.
I would have Willis at 8, Earl at 6 or 7 with Underhill playing the other side when fit, Curry otherwise.
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i'd be broadly happy with that back row but would be happier with Ted Hill at 6. That boy hs some dog in him and a bit of height. I really think that if he'd been playing anywhere else other than Worcester during his earlier years he would already have a hatful of caps.
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@Catogrande said in 2025 6Ns:
Ted Hill at 6. That boy hs some dog in him and a bit of height. I really think that if he'd been playing anywhere else other than Worcester during his earlier years he would already have a hatful of caps.
Wouldn't you have any worries about his defensive efforts? I agree that he's very good in the lineout but he doesn't seem to be a very willing tackler. I watched the game against La Rochelle and, for a blindside, he barely got involved defensively (1 completed tackle with 3 missed).
He has a few too many of those types of games for my liking (Northampton Rd. 1, Exeter Rd. 7, Saracens Rd. 9) where he's pretty much a non-factor or even a net-negative on defence. Maybe he raises this aspect of his game at Test level but it's difficult to imagine him coming close to someone like a Sam Underhill in that regard.
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I'm sorry but i will have no rational conversation about the idea of Elliot Daley playing fullback, I'd rather Jamie George played 15 than him.
Well, Jamie George does have good hands on him. Not sure about his high-ball skills though.
they cannot be worse than Daley's, despite his little arms
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@Catogrande said in 2025 6Ns:
Ted Hill at 6. That boy hs some dog in him and a bit of height. I really think that if he'd been playing anywhere else other than Worcester during his earlier years he would already have a hatful of caps.
Wouldn't you have any worries about his defensive efforts? I agree that he's very good in the lineout but he doesn't seem to be a very willing tackler. I watched the game against La Rochelle and, for a blindside, he barely got involved defensively (1 completed tackle with 3 missed).
He has a few too many of those types of games for my liking (Northampton Rd. 1, Exeter Rd. 7, Saracens Rd. 9) where he's pretty much a non-factor or even a net-negative on defence. Maybe he raises this aspect of his game at Test level but it's difficult to imagine him coming close to someone like a Sam Underhill in that regard.
yes, that's my view of Hill, I want a dog at 6 who makes tackles and hits rucks, Curry and Underhill (and Earl) do that a million times better than him IMO
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What was wrong with the kiwi lad who played in November?
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I agree, he’s not a tackling machine a la Underhill (who would be my preferred 7 & first name on the team sheet) but his contact work, carrying and ruck work I think is very good. He has both size and athleticism on his side and from what I’ve seen has good hands. An added lineout option too. Above all though it is balance in the back row. Whenever you think of stand out back row units they compliment each other. A big dog of a bloke at 6 that is a complete nuisance, a tough, abrasive no8 and a tackle machine/jackal at 7 is ideal imo. Hill, Willis and Underhill/Curry/Earl would begin to look like that unit.
