Highlanders 2025
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@handa457 Manson, though far from perfect has had a good pre-season. I don't think Jamie really thinks about experience - he thinks about ability, and this is somewhere where we have gone wrong.
If they rated Te Hiwi, he would have got the start last week.
Don't really agree with this. They have still given Te Hiwi time on the paddock. More than can be said for other players in the backs. I think it is more of a question of, as of right now is Caleb Tangitau a better winger than Jake is a 12. If Tangitau is a better winger than Te Hiwi is a 12, then you look at ways to ensure he is on the field.
With Nareki out, it should be pretty clear that Manson is next in line.
I hope that Hurley isn't scap heaped. He is a player who can open up a game. His weaknesses are known and should be worked on. He is the sort of guy we need coming on with 20 to 30 minutes to go.
@SouthernMann I think once everyone is fit and firing, Manson probably fills the role of impact sub. Hurley no doubt has some great skills, but he has plenty to work on to be a reliable option at this level.
For now, Hurley might get a spot on the bench, simply because of injuries. I think considering the loose forward injuries, it will probably be a 5-3 split on the bench, so it will be one of Hurley and Robinson + Manson/Te Hiwi depending on which one starts. I suspect they will lean for specialist first five cover, but they may go for both.
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I’d disagree with the assessment of Hurley. He may be young and need a bit of work, but a lot of the criticism thrown his way is the same we had thrown at Dmac 2014 - 15. I felt he came on and offered something in attack.
The mix probably comes down to where JJ feels we need to build depth. If Falefaga is on the outer then Robinson probably makes the bench. Te Hiwi getting some minutes in case Telea goes down seems wise too.
That said Hurley and Mason are probably the two that excite me who’d I’d love to see thrown into the mix.
Loose forward & reserve lock mix will be interesting. Mostly how they handle experience (Withy, Renton, Naeta, and Broughton) Iverses new faces like Tengblad, Stodart and Lasqua. I suspect JJ will go for a Renton, Withy Broughton starting lineup. But it’s a possibility Withy provides bench impact and Lasqua gets a start.
Reserve lock with Howden out intrigues me. Tengblad might be a Bolter, but equally Stodart could be in the mix.
In terms of squad additions with these injuries. Who’s be likely to be called in? We’re light on locks and wingers down south. Jeremiah Asi, Rory Van Vurt or Viliame Fiine might be options. While Sam Fischlii or Semesi Tupou might be called up in the loose given we have Naeta, Stodart and Tengblad.
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@SouthernMann I think once everyone is fit and firing, Manson probably fills the role of impact sub. Hurley no doubt has some great skills, but he has plenty to work on to be a reliable option at this level.
For now, Hurley might get a spot on the bench, simply because of injuries. I think considering the loose forward injuries, it will probably be a 5-3 split on the bench, so it will be one of Hurley and Robinson + Manson/Te Hiwi depending on which one starts. I suspect they will lean for specialist first five cover, but they may go for both.
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
@SouthernMann I think once everyone is fit and firing, Manson probably fills the role of impact sub. Hurley no doubt has some great skills, but he has plenty to work on to be a reliable option at this level.
Out of those 2 you mentioned, Hurley is the more well rounded player even the gap between them isn’t that big. You want to have an out and out winger on the bench? I’m taking the fullback that can cover wing on the bench for sure, adds that extra cover and versatility, especially when the gap between the players isn’t that big.
Like every season, everything works itself out whether it’s injuries or poor form. I think someone who should have a spot on the bench should be Robinson, being able to cover 10 and 15 comfortably, Robinson is more likely to keep Hurley out of the 23 than say, Manson. We will find out later this week either way.
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What are we considering as a success for the Highlanders this season?
In theory we came sixth last year, so missing the playoffs would be a step backwards, but I feel like with a stronger competition, we could take steps forward and still miss the playoffs?
I feel like barring anything really bad happening in the other games, the barometer of success is probably how we go in the derby matches.
The average scores over the past seasons for context:
2024: 20-38
2023: 16-40
2022: 17-27
2021 (Aotearoa): 25-28
2020 (Aotearoa): 25-28
2019: 21-27
2018: 26-28 -
What are we considering as a success for the Highlanders this season?
In theory we came sixth last year, so missing the playoffs would be a step backwards, but I feel like with a stronger competition, we could take steps forward and still miss the playoffs?
I feel like barring anything really bad happening in the other games, the barometer of success is probably how we go in the derby matches.
The average scores over the past seasons for context:
2024: 20-38
2023: 16-40
2022: 17-27
2021 (Aotearoa): 25-28
2020 (Aotearoa): 25-28
2019: 21-27
2018: 26-28 -
@frugby those are the for and against averages for the whole season? so 22 & 23 we were only scoring two tries on average?
@Kiwiwomble The average score as generated on the Fern, so yeah.
Defence in the last two seasons a way bigger issue though. I think our physical ceiling in the backline has been a massive issue defensively - we've been exposed for a lack of pace.
I think this possibly explains why they want to try Tavatavanawai in the midfield over Te Hiwi. This same issue may also lead to Hurley replacing Gilbert, simply because the latter is too slow.
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@Kiwiwomble The average score as generated on the Fern, so yeah.
Defence in the last two seasons a way bigger issue though. I think our physical ceiling in the backline has been a massive issue defensively - we've been exposed for a lack of pace.
I think this possibly explains why they want to try Tavatavanawai in the midfield over Te Hiwi. This same issue may also lead to Hurley replacing Gilbert, simply because the latter is too slow.
@frugby i say this as someone who has come around to hurley massively....but if someone his size is our defensive hail mary.....im concerned, there is margin for error when you dont have the size, technique needs to be perfect every single time
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Sucess is somewhere between 5th and 8th on the table. Being in contention for the playoffs going into the final weekend.
Having four or five players in the picture for All Black contention. I'm thinking de Groot, Holland, Haig (hopefully he comes back firing), Tangitau and may be Millar.
Win one derby game away from home, and two at home.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
Hurley has unfortunately not stepped up from what I have seen/heard. He was woeful in his cameo in Invercargill, and it was notable he didn't get on until the last 20. If he is on the bench, it will only be because of injuries.
What makes you say Hurley was woeful? IMO he came on and did his core roles well while also adding a bit of something to the attack with some tired defenders on the field. Can’t expect the world when given 20mins in a pre season game. He’s a good player to have on the bench, can break things open and if someone goes down early then you could be doing a lot worse than bringing him on. I don’t mind him on the bench at all.
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2025:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
Hurley has unfortunately not stepped up from what I have seen/heard. He was woeful in his cameo in Invercargill, and it was notable he didn't get on until the last 20. If he is on the bench, it will only be because of injuries.
What makes you say Hurley was woeful? IMO he came on and did his core roles well while also adding a bit of something to the attack with some tired defenders on the field. Can’t expect the world when given 20mins in a pre season game. He’s a good player to have on the bench, can break things open and if someone goes down early then you could be doing a lot worse than bringing him on. I don’t mind him on the bench at all.
I with you here Landers, I tend to think this kid Hurey has got the makings of being good.
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Anyone know when the team announcement is?
@upthelanders All teams named at 4pm today.
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Do we have an update on the wider training group?
I’m assuming it’s Jack Sexton, Sam Fischlii, Adam Lennox, Matt Whaanga and Waisake Salabiau but any other names on the list?
I’m also assuming Michael Loft, and Josh Tengblad are now officially members of the squad for the season?
Then also assuming Dylan Pledger, Moana Takaka and Kyan Rangitura will be training with the team a lot too.
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Felt like last night was a good step forward in many ways. A few guys certainly locked in their spots, while others raised questions about whether they should be there.
My questions are
Should we be playing our two locks for 80 minutes, and who can we chuck on our bench
Is Naeata a viable starting loosie. Should we look to either bring in Broughton or Lasaqa to the loosie trio
Is Sam Gilbert a steady hand or a liability. Could it be better to push Taine Robinson back to fullback and start Millar. Push Gilbert to the bench
Has Hastie done enough to keep the starting halfback spot
My team for the Blues clash
De Groot
Vikena (needs to improve his throwing)
Ma'u
Holland (needs to get more involved)
Dunshea
Renton
Withy
BroughtonHastie
Millar
Tangitau
Tavatavanawai
Tele'a
Manson
RobinsonTaylor
DLB/Batrlett
Kautai
Tengblad
Lasaqa
Fakatava
Gilbert
HurleyEven with the injuries we have at the moment. This is looking like the best Landers side potential wise in a long time. A lot.of young lads who need to be given time and the ability to make mistakes.
The Blues will be a bit pissed off. I still think we can go into the final 10 next week fully in the game, and a shout of winning.
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Felt like last night was a good step forward in many ways. A few guys certainly locked in their spots, while others raised questions about whether they should be there.
My questions are
Should we be playing our two locks for 80 minutes, and who can we chuck on our bench
Is Naeata a viable starting loosie. Should we look to either bring in Broughton or Lasaqa to the loosie trio
Is Sam Gilbert a steady hand or a liability. Could it be better to push Taine Robinson back to fullback and start Millar. Push Gilbert to the bench
Has Hastie done enough to keep the starting halfback spot
My team for the Blues clash
De Groot
Vikena (needs to improve his throwing)
Ma'u
Holland (needs to get more involved)
Dunshea
Renton
Withy
BroughtonHastie
Millar
Tangitau
Tavatavanawai
Tele'a
Manson
RobinsonTaylor
DLB/Batrlett
Kautai
Tengblad
Lasaqa
Fakatava
Gilbert
HurleyEven with the injuries we have at the moment. This is looking like the best Landers side potential wise in a long time. A lot.of young lads who need to be given time and the ability to make mistakes.
The Blues will be a bit pissed off. I still think we can go into the final 10 next week fully in the game, and a shout of winning.
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2025:
Felt like last night was a good step forward in many ways. A few guys certainly locked in their spots, while others raised questions about whether they should be there.
My questions are
Should we be playing our two locks for 80 minutes, and who can we chuck on our bench
Is Naeata a viable starting loosie. Should we look to either bring in Broughton or Lasaqa to the loosie trio
Is Sam Gilbert a steady hand or a liability. Could it be better to push Taine Robinson back to fullback and start Millar. Push Gilbert to the bench
Has Hastie done enough to keep the starting halfback spot
My team for the Blues clash
De Groot
Vikena (needs to improve his throwing)
Ma'u
Holland (needs to get more involved)
Dunshea
Renton
Withy
BroughtonHastie
Millar
Tangitau
Tavatavanawai
Tele'a
Manson
RobinsonTaylor
DLB/Batrlett
Kautai
Tengblad
Lasaqa
Fakatava
Gilbert
HurleyEven with the injuries we have at the moment. This is looking like the best Landers side potential wise in a long time. A lot.of young lads who need to be given time and the ability to make mistakes.
The Blues will be a bit pissed off. I still think we can go into the final 10 next week fully in the game, and a shout of winning.
This Landers side definitely seems more deadly on attack compared to previous seasons. As long as they keep parity up front they’ll be pushing for the playoffs for sure.
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Felt like last night was a good step forward in many ways. A few guys certainly locked in their spots, while others raised questions about whether they should be there.
My questions are
Should we be playing our two locks for 80 minutes, and who can we chuck on our bench
Is Naeata a viable starting loosie. Should we look to either bring in Broughton or Lasaqa to the loosie trio
Is Sam Gilbert a steady hand or a liability. Could it be better to push Taine Robinson back to fullback and start Millar. Push Gilbert to the bench
Has Hastie done enough to keep the starting halfback spot
My team for the Blues clash
De Groot
Vikena (needs to improve his throwing)
Ma'u
Holland (needs to get more involved)
Dunshea
Renton
Withy
BroughtonHastie
Millar
Tangitau
Tavatavanawai
Tele'a
Manson
RobinsonTaylor
DLB/Batrlett
Kautai
Tengblad
Lasaqa
Fakatava
Gilbert
HurleyEven with the injuries we have at the moment. This is looking like the best Landers side potential wise in a long time. A lot.of young lads who need to be given time and the ability to make mistakes.
The Blues will be a bit pissed off. I still think we can go into the final 10 next week fully in the game, and a shout of winning.
Tend to agree I wouldn’t change too much - it was only the first game of the season.
Broughton starts with Renton to 6, and Millar starts for me. I thought Gilbert was okay for the first 60, but then got absolutely shagged. That aerial assault would have been difficult for any player to deal with, so I am ambivalent as to who starts.
Bench I would pretty much leave. I am fine with Naeta, but I would run a 6-2 split, so Gilbert/Robinson misses out. Either Stodart or Tengbald comes onto the bench, and I’d leave the front row. DLB looked the best he has in years!
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Tend to agree I wouldn’t change too much - it was only the first game of the season.
Broughton starts with Renton to 6, and Millar starts for me. I thought Gilbert was okay for the first 60, but then got absolutely shagged. That aerial assault would have been difficult for any player to deal with, so I am ambivalent as to who starts.
Bench I would pretty much leave. I am fine with Naeta, but I would run a 6-2 split, so Gilbert/Robinson misses out. Either Stodart or Tengbald comes onto the bench, and I’d leave the front row. DLB looked the best he has in years!
@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
Tend to agree I wouldn’t change too much - it was only the first game of the season.
Broughton starts with Renton to 6, and Millar starts for me. I thought Gilbert was okay for the first 60, but then got absolutely shagged. That aerial assault would have been difficult for any player to deal with, so I am ambivalent as to who starts.
Bench I would pretty much leave. I am fine with Naeta, but I would run a 6-2 split, so Gilbert/Robinson misses out. Either Stodart or Tengbald comes onto the bench, and I’d leave the front row. DLB looked the best he has in years!
Agree on Renton to 6 and Broughton to 8. I would start Millar.
If we are going a 6/2 split, I want a halfback and either Robinson/Gilbert on the bench. Hurley would be the one to miss out you would think. Gilbert and Robinson provide that more proven cover at 10, Hurley can play it at a pinch but that’s way off super level so feel he would miss out if that’s the case.
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@frugby said in Highlanders 2025:
Tend to agree I wouldn’t change too much - it was only the first game of the season.
Broughton starts with Renton to 6, and Millar starts for me. I thought Gilbert was okay for the first 60, but then got absolutely shagged. That aerial assault would have been difficult for any player to deal with, so I am ambivalent as to who starts.
Bench I would pretty much leave. I am fine with Naeta, but I would run a 6-2 split, so Gilbert/Robinson misses out. Either Stodart or Tengbald comes onto the bench, and I’d leave the front row. DLB looked the best he has in years!
Agree on Renton to 6 and Broughton to 8. I would start Millar.
If we are going a 6/2 split, I want a halfback and either Robinson/Gilbert on the bench. Hurley would be the one to miss out you would think. Gilbert and Robinson provide that more proven cover at 10, Hurley can play it at a pinch but that’s way off super level so feel he would miss out if that’s the case.
@Landers92 Fair enough. If Robinson starts at 15 though, I’d lean Hurley. As much as I am no great fan, as he did when he came on, Hurley can break a game open.
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I think Hurley is a must have on the bench. 20 - 25 minutes of him in a roving role can be absolute dynamite. What we need from the players around him is understanding how he plays. Looking out for him running off their shoulders, and doing the same from him.
Interms of bench inpact; him, Fakatava and Lasaqa are the three guys that can change a game with 25 to go.
I'd also lean more towards Jack Taylor over Henry Bell for the same reasons.
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Agreed if Fakatava is going overseas it would make sense for Hastie to be starting this season and Fakatava to be on the bench breaking the game open.
When TUJ returns I’d slot him at 22 and Hurley at 23. With Gilbert providing 10/15 cover on the field. Jack Taylor probably gets slotted in mid season on the bench over Bell. Though I have been impressed with Bell.
