Boxing Thread
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I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over there?
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I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over there?
@nostrildamus said in Boxing Thread:
I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over there?
His outdated views on homosexuality are frowned upon by some but to your average fight fan he's still a legend I would have thought.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kidcalder said in Boxing Thread:
Yip Usyk is a generational great and only likely to lose if he carries on too long past his prime..
The winnable title fight for Parker is DD....but DD not keenYep. Styles make fights, Parker definitely way more chance to beat DD than Usyk.
Usyk has that sheer awkwardness that would make him a handful for anyone of any era.
But then DD is in his prime whereas Wilder ( especially ) and Zhang were not so would be VERY dangerous for JP.....but I have no doubt he'd rise to the challenge.
The fact Parker is even spoken of in a serious way as an adversary to these guys is a MASSIVE testimony to how well he has improved in the last 2-3 years. He's made a lot of us eat our words.
Not only has he improved, he is also become very popular and is a lot more marketable, if he fought Dubois in England right now , kiwis might be surprised how many uk boxing fans would be supporting joe , referred to in some boxing boxing circles as the peoples champ, through taking difficult opponents and being a genuine nice humble guy .
Not me, I've seen the bromance with Tyson Fury which would help his support over there to no end.
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kidcalder said in Boxing Thread:
Yip Usyk is a generational great and only likely to lose if he carries on too long past his prime..
The winnable title fight for Parker is DD....but DD not keenYep. Styles make fights, Parker definitely way more chance to beat DD than Usyk.
Usyk has that sheer awkwardness that would make him a handful for anyone of any era.
But then DD is in his prime whereas Wilder ( especially ) and Zhang were not so would be VERY dangerous for JP.....but I have no doubt he'd rise to the challenge.
The fact Parker is even spoken of in a serious way as an adversary to these guys is a MASSIVE testimony to how well he has improved in the last 2-3 years. He's made a lot of us eat our words.
Not only has he improved, he is also become very popular and is a lot more marketable, if he fought Dubois in England right now , kiwis might be surprised how many uk boxing fans would be supporting joe , referred to in some boxing boxing circles as the peoples champ, through taking difficult opponents and being a genuine nice humble guy .
Not me, I've seen the bromance with Tyson Fury which would help his support over there to no end.
Aj fans are not too happy with what Dubois did to their hero either , they will be pleased to see him beat
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I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over there?
@nostrildamus said in Boxing Thread:
I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over
The support is tribal , he is generally loved or hated , not much in between. But having people that hate you can be just as valuable , they generally still tune in to see you beat .
That was Ali’s blueprint.But the leftie woke crowd generally don’t like him
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Yip Usyk is a generational great and only likely to lose if he carries on too long past his prime..
The winnable title fight for Parker is DD....but DD not keen@kidcalder said in Boxing Thread:
Yip Usyk is a generational great and only likely to lose if he carries on too long past his prime..
The winnable title fight for Parker is DD....but DD not keenI wouldn't say Dubois isn't keen, he would fight anyone anytime as his record has shown.
His dodgy promoter Frank Warren however......
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@kidcalder said in Boxing Thread:
Yip Usyk is a generational great and only likely to lose if he carries on too long past his prime..
The winnable title fight for Parker is DD....but DD not keenI wouldn't say Dubois isn't keen, he would fight anyone anytime as his record has shown.
His dodgy promoter Frank Warren however......
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kidcalder said in Boxing Thread:
Yip Usyk is a generational great and only likely to lose if he carries on too long past his prime..
The winnable title fight for Parker is DD....but DD not keenI wouldn't say Dubois isn't keen, he would fight anyone anytime as his record has shown.
His dodgy promoter Frank Warren however......
What I find interesting in all this , Dubois who comes across as not the sharpest tool in the shed ( no disrespect intended) has gone missing, not being seen since the pre fight stuff in Saudi , has been kept away from the media with Frank and don Charles doing all his talking .
Are they worried he may slip up and say the wrong thing ?
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@nostrildamus said in Boxing Thread:
I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over
The support is tribal , he is generally loved or hated , not much in between. But having people that hate you can be just as valuable , they generally still tune in to see you beat .
That was Ali’s blueprint.But the leftie woke crowd generally don’t like him
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@nostrildamus said in Boxing Thread:
I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over
The support is tribal , he is generally loved or hated , not much in between. But having people that hate you can be just as valuable , they generally still tune in to see you beat .
That was Ali’s blueprint.But the leftie woke crowd generally don’t like him
Yeah was it what ?
Draft dodging, changing his name, being a muslim.......not to mention an incredible ability to get under the skin of every man he ever fought.
But undeniably the greatest to ever lace up a pair of gloves.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@nostrildamus said in Boxing Thread:
I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over
The support is tribal , he is generally loved or hated , not much in between. But having people that hate you can be just as valuable , they generally still tune in to see you beat .
That was Ali’s blueprint.But the leftie woke crowd generally don’t like him
Yeah was it what ?
Draft dodging, changing his name, being a muslim.......not to mention an incredible ability to get under the skin of every man he ever fought.
But undeniably the greatest to ever lace up a pair of gloves.
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@nostrildamus said in Boxing Thread:
I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over
The support is tribal , he is generally loved or hated , not much in between. But having people that hate you can be just as valuable , they generally still tune in to see you beat .
That was Ali’s blueprint.But the leftie woke crowd generally don’t like him
Yeah was it what ?
Draft dodging, changing his name, being a muslim.......not to mention an incredible ability to get under the skin of every man he ever fought.
But undeniably the greatest to ever lace up a pair of gloves.
Yeah I’ve got him as my greatest not just for his skills but his sheer will to find a way to win .
Out of the ring as a marketing tool
He was the first to really show a really colourful personality, that you would either warm to, or let it antagonise you .
It’s interesting now he is this loved figure when at the time he was considered really divisive. His haters really hated him with a passion. -
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kidcalder said in Boxing Thread:
Yip Usyk is a generational great and only likely to lose if he carries on too long past his prime..
The winnable title fight for Parker is DD....but DD not keenI wouldn't say Dubois isn't keen, he would fight anyone anytime as his record has shown.
His dodgy promoter Frank Warren however......
What I find interesting in all this , Dubois who comes across as not the sharpest tool in the shed ( no disrespect intended) has gone missing, not being seen since the pre fight stuff in Saudi , has been kept away from the media with Frank and don Charles doing all his talking .
Are they worried he may slip up and say the wrong thing ?
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kidcalder said in Boxing Thread:
Yip Usyk is a generational great and only likely to lose if he carries on too long past his prime..
The winnable title fight for Parker is DD....but DD not keenI wouldn't say Dubois isn't keen, he would fight anyone anytime as his record has shown.
His dodgy promoter Frank Warren however......
What I find interesting in all this , Dubois who comes across as not the sharpest tool in the shed ( no disrespect intended) has gone missing, not being seen since the pre fight stuff in Saudi , has been kept away from the media with Frank and don Charles doing all his talking .
Are they worried he may slip up and say the wrong thing ?
Probably haha, not that he really says a lot. He's awkward, but not as bad as Anthony Joshua. AJ really is someone who waffles on about rubbish.
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@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@nostrildamus said in Boxing Thread:
I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over
The support is tribal , he is generally loved or hated , not much in between. But having people that hate you can be just as valuable , they generally still tune in to see you beat .
That was Ali’s blueprint.But the leftie woke crowd generally don’t like him
Yeah was it what ?
Draft dodging, changing his name, being a muslim.......not to mention an incredible ability to get under the skin of every man he ever fought.
But undeniably the greatest to ever lace up a pair of gloves.
Yeah I’ve got him as my greatest not just for his skills but his sheer will to find a way to win .
Out of the ring as a marketing tool
He was the first to really show a really colourful personality, that you would either warm to, or let it antagonise you .
It’s interesting now he is this loved figure when at the time he was considered really divisive. His haters really hated him with a passion.@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@nostrildamus said in Boxing Thread:
I would have thought Fury could be a polarising figure in the UK or do people now love him over
The support is tribal , he is generally loved or hated , not much in between. But having people that hate you can be just as valuable , they generally still tune in to see you beat .
That was Ali’s blueprint.But the leftie woke crowd generally don’t like him
Yeah was it what ?
Draft dodging, changing his name, being a muslim.......not to mention an incredible ability to get under the skin of every man he ever fought.
But undeniably the greatest to ever lace up a pair of gloves.
Yeah I’ve got him as my greatest not just for his skills but his sheer will to find a way to win .
Out of the ring as a marketing tool
He was the first to really show a really colourful personality, that you would either warm to, or let it antagonise you .
It’s interesting now he is this loved figure when at the time he was considered really divisive. His haters really hated him with a passion.He had five losses which is a bit niggly on paper.
But Ali fought EVERYONE from his era. No other fighter can claim that.
Question marks on whether Liston took a dive ( I think he did but still ) and it’s fair to say Frazier and Norton gave him fits……
But the incredible speed, legendary toughness, charisma, doing everything wrong but making it work……
His only weakness was that like so many others he went too long. Trevor Berbick and Leon Spinks aren’t fit to lace his boots…..
I don’t count Larry Holmes with those guys. Prime Holmes vs Prime Ali would have been incredible.
Look at the names of the guys he beat Liston, Lyle, Cooper, Chuvalo, Williams, Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Shavers, Patterson, Quarry……
GOAT
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The two greatest boxers in my time of watching, although different weight divisions Ali and sugar ray leonard .
Both trained by Angelo Dundee which might have something to do with it.
But both exceptionally skilled with hand speed and footwork and tough but what I liked most was their ability to change tactics to suit an opponent.When Ali decided trying to outbox Frazier wasn’t going to work and he decided he had to trade with him , took flush left hook after left hook but was determined to be the last man standing, was so brutal to watch Frazier couldn’t get off his stool for the last round, ,ironically that determination was probably the downfall to his health .
He said in his book he thought he was going to die . I don’t think he was ever the same after that . I think that fight played a big part in reducing fights to 12 rounds.
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The two greatest boxers in my time of watching, although different weight divisions Ali and sugar ray leonard .
Both trained by Angelo Dundee which might have something to do with it.
But both exceptionally skilled with hand speed and footwork and tough but what I liked most was their ability to change tactics to suit an opponent.When Ali decided trying to outbox Frazier wasn’t going to work and he decided he had to trade with him , took flush left hook after left hook but was determined to be the last man standing, was so brutal to watch Frazier couldn’t get off his stool for the last round, ,ironically that determination was probably the downfall to his health .
He said in his book he thought he was going to die . I don’t think he was ever the same after that . I think that fight played a big part in reducing fights to 12 rounds.
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
The two greatest boxers in my time of watching, although different weight divisions Ali and sugar ray leonard .
Both trained by Angelo Dundee which might have something to do with it.
But both exceptionally skilled with hand speed and footwork and tough but what I liked most was their ability to change tactics to suit an opponent.When Ali decided trying to outbox Frazier wasn’t going to work and he decided he had to trade with him , took flush left hook after left hook but was determined to be the last man standing, was so brutal to watch Frazier couldn’t get off his stool for the last round, ,ironically that determination was probably the downfall to his health .
He said in his book he thought he was going to die . I don’t think he was ever the same after that . I think that fight played a big part in reducing fights to 12 rounds.
Yeah Ali had two brutal trilogies which he won 2-1 in both cases ( controversially )
Norton crumbled against Foreman, Shavers and Cooney early on but lasted 45 rounds against the greatest. The very embodiment of styles making fights !
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@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
The two greatest boxers in my time of watching, although different weight divisions Ali and sugar ray leonard .
Both trained by Angelo Dundee which might have something to do with it.
But both exceptionally skilled with hand speed and footwork and tough but what I liked most was their ability to change tactics to suit an opponent.When Ali decided trying to outbox Frazier wasn’t going to work and he decided he had to trade with him , took flush left hook after left hook but was determined to be the last man standing, was so brutal to watch Frazier couldn’t get off his stool for the last round, ,ironically that determination was probably the downfall to his health .
He said in his book he thought he was going to die . I don’t think he was ever the same after that . I think that fight played a big part in reducing fights to 12 rounds.
Yeah Ali had two brutal trilogies which he won 2-1 in both cases ( controversially )
Norton crumbled against Foreman, Shavers and Cooney early on but lasted 45 rounds against the greatest. The very embodiment of styles making fights !
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@MN5 yeah watched them all live as a kid , my old man was a massive boxing nut and in those days the big fights were night midweek in the us .
Midday nz Time, and I was allowed a day off school to watch .@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 yeah watched them all live as a kid , my old man was a massive boxing nut and in those days the big fights were night midweek in the us .
Midday nz Time, and I was allowed a day off school to watch .Tyson beating an ageing Holmes is my first memory of watching.
Again, with the old man who informed me that Holmes used to be great. I think he was genuinely upset that he lost like he did.
He then went through a phase of having lots of videos so I watched those. I mainly remember the heavyweights but that Hagler/Hearns fight was fucken awesome. Would be a toss up between that and Foreman/Lyle as to my to my all time favourite.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 yeah watched them all live as a kid , my old man was a massive boxing nut and in those days the big fights were night midweek in the us .
Midday nz Time, and I was allowed a day off school to watch .Tyson beating an ageing Holmes is my first memory of watching.
Again, with the old man who informed me that Holmes used to be great. I think he was genuinely upset that he lost like he did.
He then went through a phase of having lots of videos so I watched those. I mainly remember the heavyweights but that Hagler/Hearns fight was fucken awesome. Would be a toss up between that and Foreman/Lyle as to my to my all time favourite.
@MN5 said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
@MN5 yeah watched them all live as a kid , my old man was a massive boxing nut and in those days the big fights were night midweek in the us .
Midday nz Time, and I was allowed a day off school to watch .Tyson beating an ageing Holmes is my first memory of watching.
Again, with the old man who informed me that Holmes used to be great. I think he was genuinely upset that he lost like he did.
He then went through a phase of having lots of videos so I watched those. I mainly remember the heavyweights but that Hagler/Hearns fight was fucken awesome. Would be a toss up between that and Foreman/Lyle as to my to my all time favourite.
First big fight I remember is Ali v Frazier 1 on black and white tv after he came out of jail , I was in primary school . Rumble in the jungle I was form 1 intermediate form 2 for the thriller in Manila.around the time colour tv came out
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Thriller In Manila was on just after 3 in NZ - had time to leave school grab some beers and get home with mates to watch it
@MN5 Ali was hardly a drafy dodger he showed up to the induction as he was supposed to but refused to serve in Vietnam coz he saw it for what it was and also "no yella man ever called me nigger". For this he lost arguably his best fighting years to a vindictive justice system that insisted on calling him Cassius Clay and making an example of the uppity black.
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Thriller In Manila was on just after 3 in NZ - had time to leave school grab some beers and get home with mates to watch it
@MN5 Ali was hardly a drafy dodger he showed up to the induction as he was supposed to but refused to serve in Vietnam coz he saw it for what it was and also "no yella man ever called me nigger". For this he lost arguably his best fighting years to a vindictive justice system that insisted on calling him Cassius Clay and making an example of the uppity black.
@dogmeat said in Boxing Thread:
Thriller In Manila was on just after 3 in NZ - had time to leave school grab some beers and get home with mates to watch it
@MN5 Ali was hardly a drafy dodger he showed up to the induction as he was supposed to but refused to serve in Vietnam coz he saw it for what it was and also "no yella man ever called me nigger". For this he lost arguably his best fighting years to a vindictive justice system that insisted on calling him Cassius Clay and making an example of the uppity black.
Sorry, shoulda clarified. He was viewed as a draft dodger by the rednecks at the time. The ins and outs were a bit more complicated
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Back to the present , it’s looking like the wbo will hold firm and strip usyk of his title if he doesn’t fighter parker next .
Then we could have parker v ? For the title.
No doubt Hearn will,use AJs commercial value as a selling point , Frank may push for Moses itauma the promising 19 year old . ( that fight scares me ,that kid looks destined for greatness )
Or interestingly on the wbo rankings , parker is the interim champion , and justis Huni is the number 1 contender . A trans Ta$man world title fight would be massive in this part of the world .
But I suspect usyk may opt for parker and then Dubois should he win , and retire with all the belts as his plan .
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Back to the present , it’s looking like the wbo will hold firm and strip usyk of his title if he doesn’t fighter parker next .
Then we could have parker v ? For the title.
No doubt Hearn will,use AJs commercial value as a selling point , Frank may push for Moses itauma the promising 19 year old . ( that fight scares me ,that kid looks destined for greatness )
Or interestingly on the wbo rankings , parker is the interim champion , and justis Huni is the number 1 contender . A trans Ta$man world title fight would be massive in this part of the world .
But I suspect usyk may opt for parker and then Dubois should he win , and retire with all the belts as his plan .
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
Back to the present , it’s looking like the wbo will hold firm and strip usyk of his title if he doesn’t fighter parker next .
Then we could have parker v ? For the title.
No doubt Hearn will,use AJs commercial value as a selling point , Frank may push for Moses itauma the promising 19 year old . ( that fight scares me ,that kid looks destined for greatness )
Or interestingly on the wbo rankings , parker is the interim champion , and justis Huni is the number 1 contender . A trans Ta$man world title fight would be massive in this part of the world .
But I suspect usyk may opt for parker and then Dubois should he win , and retire with all the belts as his plan .
Yeah Huni would be set up for Parker if it went vacant. An easy night for Parker if it happened. Huni's chin is suspect, and lacks pop for a HW.
It doesn't really matter what Usyk does from now on in honesty. He's conquered boxing.
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@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
Back to the present , it’s looking like the wbo will hold firm and strip usyk of his title if he doesn’t fighter parker next .
Then we could have parker v ? For the title.
No doubt Hearn will,use AJs commercial value as a selling point , Frank may push for Moses itauma the promising 19 year old . ( that fight scares me ,that kid looks destined for greatness )
Or interestingly on the wbo rankings , parker is the interim champion , and justis Huni is the number 1 contender . A trans Ta$man world title fight would be massive in this part of the world .
But I suspect usyk may opt for parker and then Dubois should he win , and retire with all the belts as his plan .
Yeah Huni would be set up for Parker if it went vacant. An easy night for Parker if it happened. Huni's chin is suspect, and lacks pop for a HW.
It doesn't really matter what Usyk does from now on in honesty. He's conquered boxing.
@African-Monkey said in Boxing Thread:
@kiwiinmelb said in Boxing Thread:
Back to the present , it’s looking like the wbo will hold firm and strip usyk of his title if he doesn’t fighter parker next .
Then we could have parker v ? For the title.
No doubt Hearn will,use AJs commercial value as a selling point , Frank may push for Moses itauma the promising 19 year old . ( that fight scares me ,that kid looks destined for greatness )
Or interestingly on the wbo rankings , parker is the interim champion , and justis Huni is the number 1 contender . A trans Ta$man world title fight would be massive in this part of the world .
But I suspect usyk may opt for parker and then Dubois should he win , and retire with all the belts as his plan .
Yeah Huni would be set up for Parker if it went vacant. An easy night for Parker if it happened. Huni's chin is suspect, and lacks pop for a HW.
It doesn't really matter what Usyk does from now on in honesty. He's conquered boxing.
For sure, agree with both points .
There was talk if Joe fights usyk we could see huni v Moses on the same card. Huni gets destroyed there .
End of the day it might depend on what turki wants , so far his influence on matching up fighters has been on point.
