All Blacks 2025
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@Victor-Meldrew Spot on. Jordie's spell at Leinster proves beyond any doubt that he is world class. But an advantage he's had at Leinster is he can be rotated with Gary Ringrose and Robbie Henshaw.
The ABs have no such luxury.
Reiko Ioane's a funny one. 81 All Black Tests, but he often looks bored and disinterested in games. He doesn't make things happen in the way you'd expect from a senior All Black.
ALB and David Havili are solid options who Robertson likes, but they don't look as strong with the ball in hand or as creative as the midfielders Australia and France have at disposal.
At the end of last year, I'd have said Quinn Tupaea and Billy Proctor were the rising stars, but Tupaea has been a mixed bag in Super Rugby this year and Proctor has been injured.
I can't remember the NZ midfield pickings being so lean. Jordie's shoulders are broad but too much rests on them for the All Blacks at the moment.
@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
Reiko Ioane's a funny one. 81 All Black Tests, but he often looks bored and disinterested in games
Don't know what games you're watching, he works hard as fuck for not a huge amount of impact bar the odd crucial tackle is my take. Hate to say it, but that sounds like the Blackadder of the backs.
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For all of the criticism that comes Rieko Ioane's way, he sure as hell covers a lot of ground on defence. Yeah, I see the criticisms with him on attack and yes, probably attacks better on the wing, but he's an elite defender.
As has been pointed out, using him as a constant crash ball option also doesn't suit him. He's not Levi Aumua.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
@Grooter What's the situation with him playing for Fiji or New Zealand?
He has only represented Fiji at u20 level. Started playing rep level in NZ in 2021 for Ta$man so he’s eligible, was part of the reason he made his shift from Moana.
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For all of the criticism that comes Rieko Ioane's way, he sure as hell covers a lot of ground on defence. Yeah, I see the criticisms with him on attack and yes, probably attacks better on the wing, but he's an elite defender.
As has been pointed out, using him as a constant crash ball option also doesn't suit him. He's not Levi Aumua.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
For all of the criticism that comes Rieko Ioane's way, he sure as hell covers a lot of ground on defence. Yeah, I see the criticisms with him on attack and yes, probably attacks better on the wing, but he's an elite defender.
He does work hard on defence I agree, but his decision making in complex scenarios isn't elite - I think his scramble is right up there, tho
As has been pointed out, using him as a constant crash ball option also doesn't suit him.
Doesn't Jordie or Havili or ALB, but the ABs have been doing it for years - you'd kinda have hoped Razor might have changed that.
He's not Levi Aumua.
Neither is Levi Aumua, this year!
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
For all of the criticism that comes Rieko Ioane's way, he sure as hell covers a lot of ground on defence. Yeah, I see the criticisms with him on attack and yes, probably attacks better on the wing, but he's an elite defender.
He does work hard on defence I agree, but his decision making in complex scenarios isn't elite - I think his scramble is right up there, tho
As has been pointed out, using him as a constant crash ball option also doesn't suit him.
Doesn't Jordie or Havili or ALB, but the ABs have been doing it for years - you'd kinda have hoped Razor might have changed that.
He's not Levi Aumua.
Neither is Levi Aumua, this year!
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
For all of the criticism that comes Rieko Ioane's way, he sure as hell covers a lot of ground on defence. Yeah, I see the criticisms with him on attack and yes, probably attacks better on the wing, but he's an elite defender.
He does work hard on defence I agree, but his decision making in complex scenarios isn't elite - I think his scramble is right up there, tho
As has been pointed out, using him as a constant crash ball option also doesn't suit him.
Doesn't Jordie or Havili or ALB, but the ABs have been doing it for years - you'd kinda have hoped Razor might have changed that.
He's not Levi Aumua.
Neither is Levi Aumua, this year!
Good post.
RI's D has come on in leaps and bounds and last year he put in some outstanding stuff. But apart from that, he hasn't really kicked on and we really need to explore options at 13. Robertson needs to be a bit bolder.
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Rieko just isn't a creator. Never has been. He's a very elusive runner, and he's quick, and he's a good defender. He's not a crash runner. Someone else needs to put him in space.
I haven't been watching Jordie up north where by all accounts he's been good (in what positions?), but I haven't seen much of him creating space for others in the last couple of seasons. Laboured passing, indecision.
Higgins and Narawa are our two most creative midfielders, but they both have defensive issues - I do think that is easier to teach than the other though. -
Rieko just isn't a creator. Never has been. He's a very elusive runner, and he's quick, and he's a good defender. He's not a crash runner. Someone else needs to put him in space.
I haven't been watching Jordie up north where by all accounts he's been good (in what positions?), but I haven't seen much of him creating space for others in the last couple of seasons. Laboured passing, indecision.
Higgins and Narawa are our two most creative midfielders, but they both have defensive issues - I do think that is easier to teach than the other though. -
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd like to see (6) Finau, (7) Savea and (8) Sititi.
While I’m also curious to see this combination, I do wonder whether this combo doesn’t put too much pressure on the tight five to provide clean ball at the attacking breakdown. I’m not saying that Finau and Savea can’t play closer to the ball, but they both have a tendency to drift out wide, looking for mismatches there.
Putting a player like Papali’i at 7 would prevent this, as he seems to thrive playing close to the ruck. So maybe something like 6. Sititi 7. Papali’i 8. Savea? I think Sititi and Papali’i could be a very complete flanker-duo, and then you can just let Ardie do Ardie-things. I’d also go for a 6/2-split – honestly, what’s the point of having versatile backs if you don’t use them this way? – and put Finau and Lakai on the bench.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd like to see (6) Finau, (7) Savea and (8) Sititi.
While I’m also curious to see this combination, I do wonder whether this combo doesn’t put too much pressure on the tight five to provide clean ball at the attacking breakdown. I’m not saying that Finau and Savea can’t play closer to the ball, but they both have a tendency to drift out wide, looking for mismatches there.
Putting a player like Papali’i at 7 would prevent this, as he seems to thrive playing close to the ruck. So maybe something like 6. Sititi 7. Papali’i 8. Savea? I think Sititi and Papali’i could be a very complete flanker-duo, and then you can just let Ardie do Ardie-things. I’d also go for a 6/2-split – honestly, what’s the point of having versatile backs if you don’t use them this way? – and put Finau and Lakai on the bench.
@Mauss said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd like to see (6) Finau, (7) Savea and (8) Sititi.
While I’m also curious to see this combination, I do wonder whether this combo doesn’t put too much pressure on the tight five to provide clean ball at the attacking breakdown. I’m not saying that Finau and Savea can’t play closer to the ball, but they both have a tendency to drift out wide, looking for mismatches there.
Putting a player like Papali’i at 7 would prevent this, as he seems to thrive playing close to the ruck. So maybe something like 6. Sititi 7. Papali’i 8. Savea? I think Sititi and Papali’i could be a very complete flanker-duo, and then you can just let Ardie do Ardie-things. I’d also go for a 6/2-split – honestly, what’s the point of having versatile backs if you don’t use them this way? – and put Finau and Lakai on the bench.
Agree with that but not sure Papali'i is the answer. The All Blacks are in desperate need of a proper 6 and 8. Savea is a generational talent but can you have him and Sititi in the same backrow? Savea can play the tight game and excels at it but he's rarely consistent in doing so. If the 6 plays a traditional six role and operates in the outside 15m channels, is our breakdown secure enough against the bigger backrows?
In our front five, its only really Barrett that is consistently hitting and clearing rucks with any rigor. Vai'i is possibly up to it but doesn't consistently get up for it. Not sure the front row can carry the weight of two 7's on the field.
The formula for a successful backrow is still the same. The traditional 6,7,8 works the best. Finua at 6 and this is his chance to be consistent. Savea or Sitit at 7. The other goes to the bench. The real question is who do we put at 8? No one really seems to be standing out.
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@george33 how does this look for a Possibles lineup George
Fusitua
Taylor
Williams
Beehre
S Barett
Blackadder
Papalii
Sotutu
Hotham
Beaudy
Clarke
Havili
R Ioane
Chay Fihaki
Jordan. Could have Vern and Deans link up to coach the side -
@Mauss said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd like to see (6) Finau, (7) Savea and (8) Sititi.
While I’m also curious to see this combination, I do wonder whether this combo doesn’t put too much pressure on the tight five to provide clean ball at the attacking breakdown. I’m not saying that Finau and Savea can’t play closer to the ball, but they both have a tendency to drift out wide, looking for mismatches there.
Putting a player like Papali’i at 7 would prevent this, as he seems to thrive playing close to the ruck. So maybe something like 6. Sititi 7. Papali’i 8. Savea? I think Sititi and Papali’i could be a very complete flanker-duo, and then you can just let Ardie do Ardie-things. I’d also go for a 6/2-split – honestly, what’s the point of having versatile backs if you don’t use them this way? – and put Finau and Lakai on the bench.
Agree with that but not sure Papali'i is the answer. The All Blacks are in desperate need of a proper 6 and 8. Savea is a generational talent but can you have him and Sititi in the same backrow? Savea can play the tight game and excels at it but he's rarely consistent in doing so. If the 6 plays a traditional six role and operates in the outside 15m channels, is our breakdown secure enough against the bigger backrows?
In our front five, its only really Barrett that is consistently hitting and clearing rucks with any rigor. Vai'i is possibly up to it but doesn't consistently get up for it. Not sure the front row can carry the weight of two 7's on the field.
The formula for a successful backrow is still the same. The traditional 6,7,8 works the best. Finua at 6 and this is his chance to be consistent. Savea or Sitit at 7. The other goes to the bench. The real question is who do we put at 8? No one really seems to be standing out.
@KiwiInLondon said in All Blacks 2025:
Finua at 6 and this is his chance to be consistent.
I do like the idea of just giving Finau the 6 jersey for a prolonged period of time and see whether he can make it work. It seems like a logical investment to make, he seems one of the few players at the moment who can exert physical dominance.
Not sure why Sititi and Savea wouldn't work in the same backrow? I thought they went well together during the November tour and having both on the field does create a lot of space for the attack, I feel.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
I'd like to see (6) Finau, (7) Savea and (8) Sititi.
While I’m also curious to see this combination, I do wonder whether this combo doesn’t put too much pressure on the tight five to provide clean ball at the attacking breakdown. I’m not saying that Finau and Savea can’t play closer to the ball, but they both have a tendency to drift out wide, looking for mismatches there.
Putting a player like Papali’i at 7 would prevent this, as he seems to thrive playing close to the ruck. So maybe something like 6. Sititi 7. Papali’i 8. Savea? I think Sititi and Papali’i could be a very complete flanker-duo, and then you can just let Ardie do Ardie-things. I’d also go for a 6/2-split – honestly, what’s the point of having versatile backs if you don’t use them this way? – and put Finau and Lakai on the bench.
I've liked what I've seen from Savea when he has played 7 for MP. He has shown that he can still play a tighter game, and most importantly put some pressure on opposition ball at the breakdown. Slowing down the opposition ball has been a weakness of the ABs (leading to offsides and YCs), and is something Papalii doesn't do enough for the ABs when at 7. That's also the appeal of giving Kirifi a go.
Sititi could then play more of a roaming role from no.8. It is his best position.
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I've liked what I've seen from Savea when he has played 7 for MP. He has shown that he can still play a tighter game, and most importantly put some pressure on opposition ball at the breakdown. Slowing down the opposition ball has been a weakness of the ABs (leading to offsides and YCs), and is something Papalii doesn't do enough for the ABs when at 7. That's also the appeal of giving Kirifi a go.
Sititi could then play more of a roaming role from no.8. It is his best position.
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I've liked what I've seen from Savea when he has played 7 for MP. He has shown that he can still play a tighter game, and most importantly put some pressure on opposition ball at the breakdown. Slowing down the opposition ball has been a weakness of the ABs (leading to offsides and YCs), and is something Papalii doesn't do enough for the ABs when at 7. That's also the appeal of giving Kirifi a go.
Sititi could then play more of a roaming role from no.8. It is his best position.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2025:
I've liked what I've seen from Savea when he has played 7 for MP. He has shown that he can still play a tighter game, and most importantly put some pressure on opposition ball at the breakdown. Slowing down the opposition ball has been a weakness of the ABs (leading to offsides and YCs), and is something Papalii doesn't do enough for the ABs when at 7. That's also the appeal of giving Kirifi a go.
Sititi could then play more of a roaming role from no.8. It is his best position.
I never thought I would, but I am starting to warm to the idea of chucking Savea at 7 again. I prefer him as an 8, but with no current standout 7 around, Savea could be worth chucking there as we have options at 6 and 8.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
What is the Right Wing depth chart after Mark Telea goes offshore?
Will Jordan, Sevu Reece, Chay Fihaki, Macca Springer, Dallas McLeod.
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@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:
What is the Right Wing depth chart after Mark Telea goes offshore?
Should Telea be picked this year or should we sack him off and go with someone who will be here in the medium to long term?
I think in a World Cup year you should cobble together the best available 30 man squad regardless of contract situations etc.
But I feel in the other 3 years of a cycle you should give these guys the Charlie Piutau treatment.
Clear out your locker son. You’re done.
Thanks for the memories.
