All Blacks 2025

[BerniesCorner]

@Canes4life The naysayers will say that loose forward trio would be too liteweight and too short in the lineouts.
No reason Lakai couldn't be subbed on with 30 to go.
Love needs a chance at FB. I prefer Jordan on the wing.
However you cut it you cant replace speed on the wing.

[BerniesCorner]

Savea would be very comfortable with captaincy

[canefan]

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Savea would be very comfortable with captaincy

Seems to agree with him at MP

[sparky]

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

It's going to be absolutely impossible to run teams off their feet if there are as many interventions by the officials and checking of replays as there were during the European Champions Cup Final yesterday. That many breaks in play more or less takes out the fitness factor.

[Bones]

@sparky also very hard to run teams off their feet when you don't have the ball because you're getting splattered all over the park.

[sparky]

@BerniesCorner I like it.

Just a few minor differences which I am sure the selectors could sort out over an extra bottle of Merlot. I am coming around strongly to the idea of Simon Parker at 6. He was outstanding yesterday. Peter Lakai and Ruben Love should both be in the 23. The question is where to use them best for the good of the team. I worry about Caleb Clarke's form and where's head is at, but there's no denying the talent.

[BerniesCorner]

On paper the above team based on talent and experience is better than the majority of AB sides we have had over the last 5 years. It's going to be interesting.
All we need is DMac NOT starting at 10! Too much shenanigans last year. DMac obviously No 1

[Jet]

@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

It's going to be absolutely impossible to run teams off their feet if there are as many interventions by the officials and checking of replays as there were during the European Champions Cup Final yesterday. That many breaks in play more or less takes out the fitness factor.

See the 2021 Lions Tour and 2023 RWC Springboks as case in point.

Farcical carry on.

[Jet]

@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

It's going to be absolutely impossible to run teams off their feet if there are as many interventions by the officials and checking of replays as there were during the European Champions Cup Final yesterday. That many breaks in play more or less takes out the fitness factor.

The Super Rugby rules wont be used during the upcoming Lions Tour.

The usual skullduggery of walking to line outs, lads going down for a breather, collapsed scrums and the ubiquitous water boys will be en vogue once again.

[sparky]

@Jet I'm afraid that the people who run World Rugby think the occasional watchers of Rugby will find entertaining long breaks in the action while a group of middle aged men have a debate among themselves.

If we see a repeat of yesterday's European Champions Cup officiating during the Lions series it could kill Rugby Union in Australia for a generation or two.

[reprobate]

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.

[Bovidae]

@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:

The Super Rugby rules wont be used during the upcoming Lions Tour.

They will be using the 20 min RC.

The usual skullduggery of walking to line outs, lads going down for a breather, collapsed scrums and the ubiquitous water boys will be en vogue once again.

Most likely. But it will be interesting to see how BOK refs in the 1st test compared to Piardi and Amashukeli. He could set the tone for the test series.

[Canes4life]

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.

Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.

[KiwiMurph]

@sparky said in All Blacks 2025:

Jacobson and Lakai are great options from the bench.

Saying Jacobson is a great option from the bench is setting the bar very low

He has racked up a lot of caps from the bench for very little impact.

We need more impact and not to be so paranoid about versatility.

Lakai's one Test from the bench he offered more than Jacobson ever has.

[reprobate]

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.

Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.

How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.

[Canes4life]

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.

Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.

How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.

Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.

[reprobate]

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.

Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.

How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.

Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.

If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?

[Canes4life]

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.

Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.

How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.

Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.

If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?

Your point is a little moot when the likes of Savea, Sititi and Lakai are all 80 min players, therefore the need for a guy with a big engine that is no threat with ball in hand is kind of pointless. A guy that is passive with ball in hand isn't exactly going to tire out the opposition is he?

My point about Blackadder's tackling is that he wasn't playing well enough to be an AB so the fact you keep harping on about him is kind of irrelevant when he's the type of player we don't need in the ABs. Been there, done that.

There's much better loosies we can use to run a international side of their feet, players that will actually tire out the opposition.

I don't think there is any question about Ardie's ability on defence, just ask the Blues.

[brodean]

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.

Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.

How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.

Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.

If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?

Your point is a little moot when the likes of Savea, Sititi and Lakai are all 80 min players, therefore the need for a guy with a big engine that is no threat with ball in hand is kind of pointless. A guy that is passive with ball in hand isn't exactly going to tire out the opposition is he?

My point about Blackadder's tackling is that he wasn't playing well enough to be an AB so the fact you keep harping on about him is kind of irrelevant when he's the type of player we don't need in the ABs. Been there, done that.

There's much better loosies we can use to run a international side of their feet, players that will actually tire out the opposition.

I don't think there is any question about Ardie's ability on defence, just ask the Blues.

The Blues attack has been awful this year. The Blues stop the Blues from scoring than any other team so I don't think you can use them as an indicator as a good defender.

Ardies game is more balanced at 7 than guys like Cane, Jacobson, Blackadder and Papali'i who focus more of their efforts on hitting rucks and defending. Ardies average tackle per game would be low compared to most NZ 7s but he wins more turnovers and has better attacking play.

I think a trio of Savea, Sititi and Lakai lacks balance personally. Sure Lakai played well against France but ultimately his efforts and the loose forward efforts weren't good enough.
These 3 players natural inclination is to run the ball over everything else. The Canes have used this kind of combo for years and it hasn't been winning them titles.

We tried to run France off their feet with this trio and we lost. We had 60% possession and twice the post contact metres and we lost.

That said I do think we will see this combo again.

Also Lakai isn't a better 8 than Sititi.

[reprobate]

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2025:

@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2025:

Williams
Taylor
Lomax
Barrett
Vaai
6?
Savea
Sititi
Roigard
DMac
Clarke
JB
Proctor
Jordan
Love

On the Breakdown Mils has Sititi at 6, Ardie at 7 and Lakai at 8. Would love to see it. The rest of that team is hard to argue with.

IMO we don’t need to physically match up to all teams, let’s just run them off their feet instead.

Running them off their feet will result in us getting some high scoring victories, and losing when we get dragged into the trenches. The French forwards when they got on a roll against us last year made it look far too easy to take us on up the guts.
Also I hate to break it to you, but in the 'run them off their feet' game plan, you'll probably be looking at Blackadder starting, not Lakai.

Blackadder's probably the last person you pick if you want to play that style of rugby.

How do you figure that? He certainly has his faults, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have the biggest motor and most involvements of all our loosies - that is why coaches love him, work rate. He's a volume defender and a volume ruck-hitter.
There are plenty of game plans where he shouldn't be near selection, but run them off their feet (which I'm not in favour of), he'd be right up there - for the 10 minutes he's fit.

Blackadder shouldn't even be in the squad. If you want to run a team off their feet you need dynamic loosies which Blackadder clearly isn't. He might have a big motor, but he's well down the list of loosies in NZ that you want in the team from an attacking point of view. The times Blackadder has been on the field this year his tackling % has been horrible, including one notable attempt where he was run over by Kirifi. Not exactly the guy you want as a test 6 even though he'll likely feature because Razor is the coach.

If you want to run people off their feet, you pretty much by definition want the guys with the biggest motors, because they're the ones still standing when the opposition are run off their feet.
Not that I ever said Blackadders tackle accuracy was great - and it's changing the goalposts - but Ardie Savea just got run over by Samisoni - which doesn't mean he shouldn't be picked. Dalton's tackle accuracy is great. So too Withy. And Segner. You wouldn't pick those 3 and try to run teams off their feet?

Your point is a little moot when the likes of Savea, Sititi and Lakai are all 80 min players, therefore the need for a guy with a big engine that is no threat with ball in hand is kind of pointless. A guy that is passive with ball in hand isn't exactly going to tire out the opposition is he?

My point about Blackadder's tackling is that he wasn't playing well enough to be an AB so the fact you keep harping on about him is kind of irrelevant when he's the type of player we don't need in the ABs. Been there, done that.

There's much better loosies we can use to run a international side of their feet, players that will actually tire out the opposition.

I don't think there is any question about Ardie's ability on defence, just ask the Blues.

You're probably throwing stones in glass houses there accusing other people of harping on about players mate.
You do still need players to get to a lot of rucks, not just ball runners, if you intend to run teams off their feet. Otherwise you're really just picking a league team / highlights reel players which isn't going to work at all.

Anyway, it was just a throwaway 'be careful what you wish for' post, so whatever. I don't want to see the ABs adopt that approach, because I don't think it will work.