All Blacks 2025
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Jet said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
Whatever can be said of Sam Cane as an All Black, the idea of him bottling it is def. not one of them.
He's the first player to be red carded in an RWC final because he failed to keep his discipline.
Big arrow you've drawn there between lack of bottle and getting a (dubious IMHO) red card.
Bottling it means failing to do something and he failed to keep his tackles down with a lazy high shot. He failed to keep his discipline in a high pressure game. Whether or not the red is dubious is irrelevant. It was a high shot and he created that moment which forced an official to deliberate.
If he had kept his tackle down there would be nothing for the officials to judge.
Your contention has merit when looked at in isolation, but not when Kolisi gets away with a worse transgression in the very same game.
That's also irrelevant.
All Cane had to do was keep his tackle low and we wouldn't be having this debate. Again, Cane opened the door to let a flakey NH official decide his fate. No one else during the game. Cane.
But that's the exact issue. It's impossible for any dominant tackling loosie to keep 100% of their tackles low, mistakes happen.
"All" Cane had to do is something nobody else does. For example, Kolisi in the same game - so now Kolisi is lauded by all and sundry, while you are vilifying Cane - when they did the exact same damn thing, and the only thing that really causes that polar difference is the ref's inconsistent interpretation.Dude. I'm not vilifying him. I'm simply saying he failed to keep his discipline in an RWC final when the pressure was on. There is nothing abusive in my comments towards him.
He doesn't get a pass for his performance because officials have varied responses to high tackles. It was a high tackle. His performance was poor.
Psdt made 28 tackles in that final and none of them were high despite him being 15cm taller than Cane.
Great performance from Ardie. Poor from Cane and Frizell.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Psdt made 28 tackles in that final and none of them were high despite him being 15cm taller than Cane.
Is he? 11cm diff I thought (1.89 to 2.00).
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@brodean flat stomachs have’nt worked for us in recent times
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean flat stomachs have’nt worked for us in recent times
It'd work for my wife. If I had one that is.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks 2025:
@Steven-Harris said in All Blacks 2025:
@KiwiMurph being at the game last night and watching from a very elevated position Sotutu Always attracts a lot of defenders
Has a great ability to throw a a late pass before contact or just take contact and get gainlineI watched both the 2 number 8s closely last night Gleeson got through a ton of work with many carries without getting gainline
Looked busy but far less impactful
Hoskins showed some great touches last night
Stats imo dont always tell a full story but i would be curious to compare both as reference pointSotutu has had a great 2nd half of the season after a stop start 1st half of it (mainly due to suspension).
Obviously he's not in the frame, but despite the critics from Chch death riding him at every opportunity, he's shown his class for us in what's been a mediocre season for us.
So much of the Blues attack went through him last year. He was so good at distributing, carrying and had good footwork. Not valued by these selectors, but if you want to have some threats in close then he's your man.
Suspect he'll pick up an English contract shortly - if his heart is in it
You don’t think Ardie provides those skills? Plus he’s the most likely to play 80
Ardies distribution isn't really the same. He has a good short passing game granted.
What they both have, and what is still somewhat unusual for loosies, is genuine vision for space. It's often hoskins who you'll see throw wide passes or flick turnover ball out quick to where it needs to be. Just another thing which doesnt readily show up in stats.
Our point of difference used to be forwards with fitness who could run and pass, but everyone does that now (or for fitness doesnt need to because of the bench these days).
Teams where everyone understands space, and makes good fast decisions about where the ball needs to be might be our way forward.Maybe. But when it comes to winning RWC it usually ends up being a slug fest. For example Jesse Kriel made zero passes in the last RWC final.
2015 and 87 were anomalies.
We had those periods where we would dominate in between RWC with players who understand space but when it came to the street fight in the RWC we fell short.
I see your point, and you can't expect to play a 90s style Crusaders team at international level with success. yet in our last rwc final, savea was pretty good, and frizzell the big strong guy was crap. Recognising space doesn't mean playing wide and loose, you can manipulate space close to rucks too, and hoskins is good at that; so too sititi and savea. Not so much DP, EB, LJ.
Yeah I would say Cane, Savea and Frizell showed their true colours as players when the going got tough in their most critical game. Cane and Frizell bottled it and Savea ended up doing the work of two loose forwards.
lol look at your walking back hard from this here hottest of hot takes.
Your words dude. Sam Cane's true colours were a big game bottler. 104 tests as a complete warrior for the ABs. 7 days after one of the best loose forward displays you'll see in Black. Ignore all that, really that's not his true colours.
It's a shit take.
He did bottle it.
That's not vilifying or dragging his name through the dirt.
He failed to perform anywhere close to his best potential because he got himself ejected from the game through poor discipline.
He got carded in the previous game against the Boks in London too because again he failed to maintain his discipline under pressure.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
He did bottle it.
He failed to perform anywhere close to his best potential because he got himself ejected from the game through poor discipline.
So the key question in your mind is who replaces Ardie in the squad?
https://www.rugby.com.au/news/ardie-savea-suspended-over-throat-slit-gesture-202337
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Is this thread still about ABS 2025 or do we need to go back and cry all over again about a RWC?
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Tavatavanawai kind of looks like he has a pot belly. If that's the case I think the current selectors frown on that sort of thing.
I reckon work rate and involvement probably trumps whether some rando on the internet thinks a player has a Potbelly.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Tavatavanawai kind of looks like he has a pot belly. If that's the case I think the current selectors frown on that sort of thing.
I reckon work rate and involvement probably trumps whether some rando on the internet thinks a player has a Potbelly.
Last time I checked the point of this forum was for randoms to speculate on rugby and rugby players?
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
He did bottle it.
He failed to perform anywhere close to his best potential because he got himself ejected from the game through poor discipline.
So the key question in your mind is who replaces Ardie in the squad?
https://www.rugby.com.au/news/ardie-savea-suspended-over-throat-slit-gesture-202337
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
He did bottle it.
He failed to perform anywhere close to his best potential because he got himself ejected from the game through poor discipline.
So the key question in your mind is who replaces Ardie in the squad?
https://www.rugby.com.au/news/ardie-savea-suspended-over-throat-slit-gesture-202337
The actual point was that Ardie Savea did the work of two loose forwards in the RWC final. Some people got all precious about Sam Cane.
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@SBW1 paywalled but see enough to see it's about Frizell, move on ffs. Invest in Parker, Finau or Howden
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@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2025:
Liam Napier is about as reliable as it gets in NZ rugby media so it looks like Frizell is going to return - but not until next year
Frizell is now off contract with the Japanese club. Frizzell is, however, expected to re-sign a one-season extension with Toshiba before eyeing a return to New Zealand. Speaking after Sunday’s Japanese final, Frizell told RugbyJP.com: “It’s likely that I’ll be in Japan for another season. Firstly, I’m going to have a good break with my family and then we’ll see what happens.” -
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Tavatavanawai kind of looks like he has a pot belly. If that's the case I think the current selectors frown on that sort of thing.
I reckon work rate and involvement probably trumps whether some rando on the internet thinks a player has a Potbelly.
Last time I checked the point of this forum was for randoms to speculate on rugby and rugby players?
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Tavatavanawai kind of looks like he has a pot belly. If that's the case I think the current selectors frown on that sort of thing.
I reckon work rate and involvement probably trumps whether some rando on the internet thinks a player has a Potbelly.
Last time I checked the point of this forum was for randoms to speculate on rugby and rugby players?
My bad. Feel free to "speculate" on whether a player has love handles and what Razor thinks of them, whilst ignoring the actual rugby. Quality.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Tavatavanawai kind of looks like he has a pot belly. If that's the case I think the current selectors frown on that sort of thing.
I reckon work rate and involvement probably trumps whether some rando on the internet thinks a player has a Potbelly.
Last time I checked the point of this forum was for randoms to speculate on rugby and rugby players?
My bad. Feel free to "speculate" on whether a player has love handles and what Razor thinks of them, whilst ignoring the actual rugby. Quality.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Tavatavanawai kind of looks like he has a pot belly. If that's the case I think the current selectors frown on that sort of thing.
I reckon work rate and involvement probably trumps whether some rando on the internet thinks a player has a Potbelly.
Last time I checked the point of this forum was for randoms to speculate on rugby and rugby players?
My bad. Feel free to "speculate" on whether a player has love handles and what Razor thinks of them, whilst ignoring the actual rugby. Quality.
If you don't think that kind of thing is a factor then you mustn't have heard about the importance of body language also.
De Groot has been asked to lose some weight under two coaching regimes now.
These things are factors.
I wouldn't complain if Tavatavanawai was in the squad. I'd like to see how he goes. I just think that is potentially a factor against him.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
Tavatavanawai kind of looks like he has a pot belly. If that's the case I think the current selectors frown on that sort of thing.
I reckon work rate and involvement probably trumps whether some rando on the internet thinks a player has a Potbelly.
Last time I checked the point of this forum was for randoms to speculate on rugby and rugby players?
My bad. Feel free to "speculate" on whether a player has love handles and what Razor thinks of them, whilst ignoring the actual rugby. Quality.
If you don't think that kind of thing is a factor then you mustn't have heard about the importance of body language also.
De Groot has been asked to lose some weight under two coaching regimes now.
These things are factors.
I wouldn't complain if Tavatavanawai was in the squad. I'd like to see how he goes. I just think that is potentially a factor against him.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones Good on you.
No tell me more about this scientific potbelly discovery, the one severely impacting the highlanders best player and stopping him having any crucial involvement in a game. Then we can move onto guys like ALB, Clarke, Sititi and discover why them not having a girly waist is a factor in their non-selection.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones Good on you.
No tell me more about this scientific potbelly discovery, the one severely impacting the highlanders best player and stopping him having any crucial involvement in a game. Then we can move onto guys like ALB, Clarke, Sititi and discover why them not having a girly waist is a factor in their non-selection.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones Good on you.
No tell me more about this scientific potbelly discovery, the one severely impacting the highlanders best player and stopping him having any crucial involvement in a game. Then we can move onto guys like ALB, Clarke, Sititi and discover why them not having a girly waist is a factor in their non-selection.
Conditioning is a factor in professional coaches minds when it comes to choosing the professional athletes they want on their teams.
Do you really think that is a controversial position?
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones Good on you.
No tell me more about this scientific potbelly discovery, the one severely impacting the highlanders best player and stopping him having any crucial involvement in a game. Then we can move onto guys like ALB, Clarke, Sititi and discover why them not having a girly waist is a factor in their non-selection.
Conditioning is a factor in professional coaches minds when it comes to choosing the professional athletes they want on their teams.
Do you really think that is a controversial position?
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones Good on you.
No tell me more about this scientific potbelly discovery, the one severely impacting the highlanders best player and stopping him having any crucial involvement in a game. Then we can move onto guys like ALB, Clarke, Sititi and discover why them not having a girly waist is a factor in their non-selection.
Conditioning is a factor in professional coaches minds when it comes to choosing the professional athletes they want on their teams.
Do you really think that is a controversial position?
You didn't say anything about conditioning, you imagined a potbelly. So you think he's unfit?
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2025:
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@Bones Good on you.
No tell me more about this scientific potbelly discovery, the one severely impacting the highlanders best player and stopping him having any crucial involvement in a game. Then we can move onto guys like ALB, Clarke, Sititi and discover why them not having a girly waist is a factor in their non-selection.
Conditioning is a factor in professional coaches minds when it comes to choosing the professional athletes they want on their teams.
Do you really think that is a controversial position?
You didn't say anything about conditioning, you imagined a potbelly. So you think he's unfit?
A pot belly on a professional athlete would generally be considered an indicator of lack of conditioning.
Lack of conditioning is generally an indicator that an athlete doesn't take their preparation seriously and lacks professionalism.
Some coaches of elite teams don't like to have players like that on their teams.
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A pot belly on a professional athlete would generally be considered an indicator of lack of conditioning.
Lack of conditioning is generally an indicator that an athlete doesn't take their preparation seriously and lacks professionalism.
Some coaches of elite teams don't like to have players like that on their teams.
@brodean said in All Blacks 2025:
A pot belly on a professional athlete would generally be considered an indicator of lack of conditioning.
Lack of conditioning is generally an indicator that an athlete doesn't take their preparation seriously and lacks professionalism.
Some coaches of elite teams don't like to have players like that on their teams.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/cms_media/module_img/8853/4426637_7_org_2371576_1_.jpg
Like this guy. He was shit as. What a slug.
I'm more concerned about how a player can actually play rugby.
I remember a time years ago, when an AB coach preferred Caleb Ralph to Jonah Lomu, probably because he lacked conditioning. Preposterous when you look back now
